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rafaqat

Tech in the new consoles and what it'll help achieve

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Sorry I couldn't think of a better title. Suggestions for an edit welcome. 

So..rather than bang on about what one console has got and the other hasn't, I thought it might be fun to have a thread where we pick a piece of tech from either console and without mentioning which console has it explain how it might be used to enhance the gaming experience.  

 

The easy ones are SSD drive, 8 core CPU's, Hardware based raytracing. 

Then we have various things like sound chips supporting virtual surround, a crap load of channels

We have video chips supporting Variable Rate Shading, FreeSync/G-Sync

We have controllers that have adaptive triggers

 

Basically a bit of a nerdgasm thread. Speculation on what sorts of things the tech could unleash or even make easier.      Please keep it positive. Lets not try to wind each other up (I know the irony right?)

 

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I'll go first with the Variable Rate Shading.

 

Here's a decent explanation of variable rate shading.  AMD also have their own version of VRS in the GPU's rumoured to be in the next gen consoles. 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-turing-gpu-architecture-explored,5801-9.html

 

TLDR: It allows the GPU to spend more time with shaders on detailed parts of a scene or parts that move more meaning work is allocated to parts of the scene that would benefit from it.   Performance increase is 15%-20%

 

 

 

This should mean that 4K 60fps is easier to achieve for devs.  It should make VR smoother too and if the next version of VR headsets do eye tracking they can work out which bits of the scene need more GPU power and which bits on the edge of your vision can get away with less. 

 

Your turn.  :)

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https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvidias-rtx-dlss-technology/

 

Quote

In short, DLSS forces a game to render at a lower resolution (typically 1440p) and then uses an AI algorithm to infer what it would look like if it were rendered at a higher one (typically 4K). It does this by utilizing some anti-aliasing effects (likely Nvidia’s own TAA) and some automated sharpening. The idea is that the image would look like a 4K image but without the overhead of actually rendering it at that resolution. That’s where the performance enhancement comes from, and ideally, where the maintained visual quality does too.

 

Edit: To avoid confusion. I think DLSS is a good thing. 

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yep, and? 

 

have a look at the vid above to show how good it can work! I think it might be the best example of DLSS seen so far.

and, how little VRS adds, as opposed to a very good upscale!

 

edit: control is a superb example of utilising RTX and DLSS together as well! yaknow...when you don't get people trying to natively render "that" engine at 4k...and then complain about it...:facepalm:

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5 minutes ago, 5R7 said:

yep, and? 

 

have a look at the vid above to show how good it can work! I think it might be the best example of DLSS seen so far.

and, how little VRS adds, as opposed to a very good upscale!

 

edit: control is a superb example of utilising RTX and DLSS together as well! yaknow...when you don't get people trying to natively render "that" engine at 4k...and then complain about it...:facepalm:

 

Sorry I should have commented my last post with "more techniques to free up the GPU to do other stuff in the game".   I see it as a good thing if it's pretty close to a native 4K image. 

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All those things add the pretties, for sure, but for me it’s all about the massively quicker SSD. I hate loading times and loading screens and partner and fucking game-engine splash screens and LOD pop-in and indoor/ outdoor transition pauses and the like.


The chance to say fuck off to all that distracting shit is the big next gen benefit for me.

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4 minutes ago, jonamok said:

All these things add the pretties, but it’s all about the massively quicker SSD for me. I hate loading times and loading screens and LOD and shadow pop-in and the like.


The chance to say fuck off to all that distracting shit is the big next gen benefit for me.

 

Yup.  I'm wondering what else devs might be able to do with them that might not be obvious?   Is asset duplication to speed up loading times a thing still or was that a CD era thing?  SSD's could mean no need to do that due to speeds so better usage of space?

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Hopefully install times will be a fuuuuuckload faster too.

 

These are the real QoL improvements.

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32 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

Yup.  I'm wondering what else devs might be able to do with them that might not be obvious?   Is asset duplication to speed up loading times a thing still or was that a CD era thing?  SSD's could mean no need to do that due to speeds so better usage of space?

its funny you say that, as sony said recently that spider man has some things replicated...400 times...0_o....yep...

 

its odd, because if they dont have to replicate info, it could in theory lead to smaller game sizes...it wont be cause nobody compresses anything any more...but stilll

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8 hours ago, jonamok said:

All those things add the pretties, for sure, but for me it’s all about the massively quicker SSD. I hate loading times and loading screens and partner and fucking game-engine splash screens and LOD pop-in and indoor/ outdoor transition pauses and the like.


The chance to say fuck off to all that distracting shit is the big next gen benefit for me.

As long as they don't add so much detail we still get pop-in.

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For me it's mainly the potential improvements to open-world simulation, streaming speed and persistence e.g

  • Road vehicles and being able to get a view from up high in a hyper-detailed open-world like The Division - currently the max speed is sprinting on foot due to streaming limitations
  • A persistent simulation like that seen in new Hitman games - with the consequences of my setups playing out in real-time no matter when I am - but in a much larger environment
  • The more detailed AI seen in games like MGSV, but applied to a larger number of AI actors at once rather than being restricted to desolate environments with few NPCs wandering about.
  • Being able to set up roadblocks in the next GTA without cars disappearing when I turn my back. 
  • Being able to tap into a CCTV feed anywhere in the city in a next-gen Watch Dogs or Splinter Cell, rather than just cameras which happen to be nearby
  • Being able to have the intricate environments of a game Splinter Cell (i.e which has thus far been limited to discrete maps) embedded realistically into an open world without compromise.
  • Being able to skydive through through the window of a highly-detailed high-rise office environment and immediately begin a shootout with screens smashing and office detritus flying everywhere
  • Then being able to leap out of the 40th floor window to escape, parachuting to safety on the streets below and speeding off in a stolen car
  • Not having to be funnelled through artificial corridors or wait for lifts when moving between outdoors and detailed interiors, and these interiors not having to be hermetically-sealed from the outside world (basements, curtains drawn, no windows etc).

 

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9 hours ago, jonamok said:

All those things add the pretties, for sure, but for me it’s all about the massively quicker SSD. I hate loading times and loading screens and partner and fucking game-engine splash screens and LOD pop-in and indoor/ outdoor transition pauses and the like.


The chance to say fuck off to all that distracting shit is the big next gen benefit for me.

 

Yes, the idea of not having to wait a couple of minutes for a game to even get to the title screen (and that's before selecting options and loading in any actual level data) sounds like bliss.

 

(What even IS a game loading during all that time it takes to get to the title screen, given that there're always a massive additional load after it?)

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If you want to know what the next generation will be like then just look at pc gaming. The new consoles won’t bring anything that doesn’t already exist on pc. The new Xbox even looks like a pc.

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7 minutes ago, Stevie said:

If you want to know what the next generation will be like then just look at pc gaming. The new consoles won’t bring anything that doesn’t already exist on pc. The new Xbox even looks like a pc.

 

What's a top-end PC game that isn't available on current consoles? This decade's Crysis?  I can only think of Star Citizen, which isn't really a complete game. DF did a good video on how it relies on the presence of an SSD, though.

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11 hours ago, rafaqat said:

 Is asset duplication to speed up loading times a thing still or was that a CD era thing?  SSD's could mean no need to do that due to speeds so better usage of space?

 

My understanding is that asset duplication is used to counter the access times that come with accessing data on a device with moving parts. SSDs having no moving parts means virtually no access overhead, so the benefits of asset duplication mostly go away.

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20 minutes ago, Pob said:

 

What's a top-end PC game that isn't available on current consoles? This decade's Crysis?  I can only think of Star Citizen, which isn't really a complete game. DF did a good video on how it relies on the presence of an SSD, though.


Most games are multi platform these days, and unfortunately that means the pc versions will suffer due to console limitations. A game like Far Cry 5 would have better physics and graphics if it was made exclusively for pc. There are however some games (Rockstar) that allows you to make better use of the pc hardware and the difference in quality and frames per second is noticeable. 
 

 

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Raytracing on the GPU used to work out how and where you hear sounds coming from maybe?   Could see a dev using that to make a game where sound is more important than shinies?

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Stevie said:


Most games are multi platform these days, and unfortunately that means the pc versions will suffer due to console limitations. A game like Far Cry 5 would have better physics and graphics if it was made exclusively for pc. There are however some games (Rockstar) that allows you to make better use of the pc hardware and the difference in quality and frames per second is noticeable. 

 

Right, so you can't really look at what's happening on PC because the games are designed to work on console, and AAA PC exclusives are mostly theoretical. So I'd say that you can't look at what's happening in PC gaming today to see what the next generation of games will be like, unless there are some PC-exclusive showcases I'm not aware of.

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For me it's about having enough processing and GPU power to finally be able to properly and fully recreate historically accurate giant enemy crabs.

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Hopefully a new console generation will mean the majority of PC game ports are going to use more than four bloody CPU cores, for a start.

 

Reserving cores to retain upkeep of the OS just sounded odd, so it would be nice if developers started accounting for more flexible core scaling, and hardware manufacturers can work around much snappier storage and memory speeds to load in OS features on the fly.

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7 hours ago, Pob said:

For me it's mainly the potential improvements to open-world simulation, streaming speed and persistence e.g

  • Road vehicles and being able to get a view from up high in a hyper-detailed open-world like The Division - currently the max speed is sprinting on foot due to streaming limitations
  • A persistent simulation like that seen in new Hitman games - with the consequences of my setups playing out in real-time no matter when I am - but in a much larger environment
  • The more detailed AI seen in games like MGSV, but applied to a larger number of AI actors at once rather than being restricted to desolate environments with few NPCs wandering about.
  • Being able to set up roadblocks in the next GTA without cars disappearing when I turn my back. 
  • Being able to tap into a CCTV feed anywhere in the city in a next-gen Watch Dogs or Splinter Cell, rather than just cameras which happen to be nearby
  • Being able to have the intricate environments of a game Splinter Cell (i.e which has thus far been limited to discrete maps) embedded realistically into an open world without compromise.
  • Being able to skydive through through the window of a highly-detailed high-rise office environment and immediately begin a shootout with screens smashing and office detritus flying everywhere
  • Then being able to leap out of the 40th floor window to escape, parachuting to safety on the streets below and speeding off in a stolen car
  • Not having to be funnelled through artificial corridors or wait for lifts when moving between outdoors and detailed interiors, and these interiors not having to be hermetically-sealed from the outside world (basements, curtains drawn, no windows etc).

 

 

Me in the 2013 topic "How would you like next-gen games to evolve":

 

On 15/11/2013 at 15:15, Qazimod said:

It seems that with open-world games we just seem to get shinier, bigger versions of what's gone before, rather than making smaller worlds with explorable interiors, or populated with people who have individual personalities and agendas rather than acting within the flock, or more interactive scenery that can be damaged or changed. This generation's had a few steps in the right direction - Deus Ex (HR) had a nice hub with some great interiors and interesting citizens, for instance - but more can be done...

 

Not every open-world game has to be in a massive city - a few blocks that are more interactive and fleshed-out would also be great. :) 

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