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Formula One - 2020


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Haven't seen anyone mention this at all, but shout out to Kvyatt for beating Gasly to 10th! Gasly does seem to have a bit of a habit of falling away in the races a bit, though he's usually a bit compromised on strategy for putting his car out of position - didn't really have that excuse yesterday though.

 

On the Hamilton/Bottas thing - I think Bottas got a bit unlucky but I certainly don't think Merc deliberately screwed him (and in sport the lines between unlucky and getting legitimately beat are always going to be a bit blurry). It also wasn't completely clear that it was the team's call to keep Ham out longer and not his, was it? I think Merc tried what they thought was best with Bottas to beat Max - and also tried what they thought was best with Ham to beat Max - it was just the latter turned out to be slightly less ineffective.

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32 minutes ago, MrPogo said:


I thought it was just their usual “leading driver gets the pre-determined optimal strategy, and the other guy can’t pit until after he does” and this was one of the rare occasions the other side of the garage had the opportunity to do something a bit different that worked, in this case by pitting a lot later, cos it turned out Bottas Effectively came in too early.

 

It could be either potentially but either way of reading it means a break for Lewis over Bottas, which is unfortunate for Bottas on one of the rare occasions he "should" be the better Black Arrow.

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55 minutes ago, kiroquai said:

So it was :facepalm: - I always get slightly mixed up due to both of you having monochrome avatars... that now I look at, aren't similar in any way, shape or form!


Don’t worry, I’m always disappointed when it turns out that what looks like good post by me was written by @wev

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1 hour ago, John0 said:

On the Hamilton/Bottas thing - I think Bottas got a bit unlucky but I certainly don't think Merc deliberately screwed him (and in sport the lines between unlucky and getting legitimately beat are always going to be a bit blurry). It also wasn't completely clear that it was the team's call to keep Ham out longer and not his, was it? I think Merc tried what they thought was best with Bottas to beat Max - and also tried what they thought was best with Ham to beat Max - it was just the latter turned out to be slightly less ineffective.

 

Well, there is this...

 

3 hours ago, layten said:

 

Quote

Wolff says the team was able to examine the tyres that came off Bottas' car and, having decided that there was still some life in, made the call to leave Hamilton out for as long as possible.

 

So, it seems clear that it was the teams call, and that they basically used data from Bottas's tyres as guidance to to inform their decision for Hamilton. 

This also tells us that it wasn't down to Hamilton preserving tyres better than Bottas, as others have suggested in this thread, as the team have admitted Bottas had plenty of life left.

 

If the radio message was:

"OK Bottas, we're going to pit you now, analyse your tyres, see how much rubber is left, then let Lewis run longer if they look good"

I think Bottas side of the garage would have acted differently, especially as the gap to Hamilton was stagnant / growing through the stint.

 

Mind you, the article also says:

Quote

 indeed at one stage the world champion was hoping that he could reach the chequered flag without a second stop.

 

and unless "hoping"  really means "praying" this doesn't say much about Hamilton.  First stint tyres looked terrible, 1 week after a blowout on the last lap due to tyre wear, and that stint tyres looking equally terrible.  Already moaning about the rears feeling terrible on the radio, but at the same time thinking he can take it to the end?  Not buying that.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Gloomy Andy said:

If everyone's talking about teams screwing drivers through pit strategy can we stop talking about Mercedes and focus on the real villains of yesterday, Racing Point. 

 

Poor Hulk. 

 

Lots of people saying this during the race but it was debunked as much as it could be afterwards. Hulk getting big vibrations akin to Bottas and Sainz from last week - he didn't think he'd make it to the end. Worth noting RP lost 0 points from the stop as a team too - pitting him seemed very reasonable in the end. Certainly in interviews afterwards there wasn't a whiff of him being screwed, he seemed pretty happy. And he's usually one to tell it like it is.

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They thought he could drive through the graining and the tyres would come back to him. Mercedes changed the balance of the car to lessen the load on the front left that failed last week and all the new setup ended up doing was cooking the rear tyres. As for going to the end they were praying for a safety car and as soon as Max increased his pace to make that unviable they pitted Hamilton.

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6 minutes ago, John0 said:

 

Lots of people saying this during the race but it was debunked as much as it could be afterwards. Hulk getting big vibrations akin to Bottas and Sainz from last week - he didn't think he'd make it to the end. Worth noting RP lost 0 points from the stop as a team too - pitting him seemed very reasonable in the end. Certainly in interviews afterwards there wasn't a whiff of him being screwed, he seemed pretty happy. And he's usually one to tell it like it is.

 

Yeah I thought he was screwed but he had an interview after the race stating that he had to come in to get the car to the end. Still, shitty old luck though.

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6 minutes ago, John0 said:

 

Lots of people saying this during the race but it was debunked as much as it could be afterwards. Hulk getting big vibrations akin to Bottas and Sainz from last week - he didn't think he'd make it to the end. Worth noting RP lost 0 points from the stop as a team too - pitting him seemed very reasonable in the end. Certainly in interviews afterwards there wasn't a whiff of him being screwed, he seemed pretty happy. And he's usually one to tell it like it is.

 

Be interesting to know what he had left of his allocation though as they put him on the soft which was absolutely the wrong decision, and everyone in the paddock knew that.  It barely lasted 2 sectors on a light qualifying car, and they wanted him to do 10 in a race.  Either the medium or the hard would have made so much more sense.

 

 

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3 hours ago, kiroquai said:

Ah see, Rial Racing are a pretty interesting team given what's going on this year. Gustav Brunner designed the 1987 Ferrari, which pretty much got used with a few tweaks in 1988. It looked like this.

 

24754092-1-22.jpg&width=960

 

The 1988 Rial was also designed by Gustav Brunner, and looked like this :sherlock:

 

ff6e62dfa31bfe9cb84a4f55f15b43b1.jpg

 

I highly recommend reading this article about Rial (and previously ATS) founder Gunther Schmid as he was... quite the character. An exerpt:

 

 

 

A golden era for clean and uncluttered design, easy to fall in love with the sport. Even the shit cars looked good.

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20 minutes ago, Freeman said:

Be interesting to know what he had left of his allocation though as they put him on the soft which was absolutely the wrong decision, and everyone in the paddock knew that.  It barely lasted 2 sectors on a light qualifying car, and they wanted him to do 10 in a race.  Either the medium or the hard would have made so much more sense.

 

 

 

 

 

Each car was allocated eight sets of the Soft, three of the Medium and two of the Hard for the whole weekend. That's eight sets of tyres that were objectively useless on this circuit at these temperatures (in fairness the tyre allocation will have been fixed some time ago, before the heatwave).

 

They not only put Hülkenberg out on Softs for the last stint, they were used Softs. (Racing Point publishes that stuff after each race.) And his best lap on them was still eight tenths quicker than Stroll's.

 

I don't particularly dislike Stroll. He's not a bad driver, much as people love to dunk on him for being Daddy's boy. But it's a big shame that the race went the way it did for Hülkenberg in the end. I was watching the deltas closely and Hülkenberg was within one pit-stop of Leclerc - so at the time I was fully expecting Leclerc to come in and Hülkenberg to take P4. (In the end it turned out Leclerc managed to one-stop it so it was moot.)

 

 

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4 minutes ago, marsh said:

 

A golden era for clean and uncluttered design, easy to fall in love with the sport. Even the shit cars looked good.

 

Well, most of them anyway!

 

1f0b15d1ff072aa5f3eb7c5329f45ad1.jpg 

 

Ooooh, which leads onto this interesting question. What is going on here? :sherlock:

 

ped_DBHgUN3pykWzSPMyGEDZnJsLgZ_jsIS4POyu

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I don't think being sponsored by what appears to be Southampton AFC helps that particular car...

 

And I'm going to suggest something dodgy to do with wing mirrors.

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41 minutes ago, John0 said:

 

Lots of people saying this during the race but it was debunked as much as it could be afterwards. Hulk getting big vibrations akin to Bottas and Sainz from last week - he didn't think he'd make it to the end. Worth noting RP lost 0 points from the stop as a team too - pitting him seemed very reasonable in the end. Certainly in interviews afterwards there wasn't a whiff of him being screwed, he seemed pretty happy. And he's usually one to tell it like it is.

 

This isn't true.

 

Assuming Hulk was actually going to be ok to the end of the race they would have been 5th and 7th, not 7th and 6th.  Albon passed Stroll late on, he would not have passed Hulk.

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11 minutes ago, kiroquai said:

 

Well, most of them anyway!

 

1f0b15d1ff072aa5f3eb7c5329f45ad1.jpg 

 

Ooooh, which leads onto this interesting question. What is going on here? :sherlock:

 

ped_DBHgUN3pykWzSPMyGEDZnJsLgZ_jsIS4POyu

 

Well they're both AGS' from their brief "Actually have sponsorship" period.

 

Ahhhhh I know.

 

Someone making a bid for Ferrari hand me downs then  ;)

 

EDIT : Ah also from the brief period that they were entered as AGS but by the superb name "Jolly Club".

 

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Just now, Dudley said:

 

This isn't true.

 

Assuming Hulk was actually going to be ok to the end of the race they would have been 5th and 7th, not 7th and 6th.  Albon passed Stroll late on, he would not have passed Hulk.

 

Yeah fair, I was assuming he'd pass both. Point is I think it seemed like a very reasonable stop as far as anyone can tell from outside the team.

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I think any driver that doesn't have 'Stroll' as their surname at racing point is going to get royally shafted, week in week out. That rodgering is on a scale that would make even Rubens blush.

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I don't think Stroll is as bad as all that, though of course on the evidence of the last two weekends there doesn't seem like much doubt that Hulk would beat him over a season (as you would expect).

 

I was interested so I just took a quick look at the their times on the third/fourth stints. Does look like Hulk was holding him up a bit as soon as he pits Stroll immediately starts going half a second quicker.

 

image.png.835167755660dd8b034c6855f47e311d.png

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38 minutes ago, kiroquai said:

 

Well, most of them anyway!

 

1f0b15d1ff072aa5f3eb7c5329f45ad1.jpg 

 

Ooooh, which leads onto this interesting question. What is going on here? :sherlock:

 

ped_DBHgUN3pykWzSPMyGEDZnJsLgZ_jsIS4POyu

 

It looks like the era where people photoshopped rectangular air inlets onto the cars in weird places, though I fear they are actually really there on both examples!

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38 minutes ago, mexos said:

 

Is that deCesaris? i seem to recall he always wore balaclavas like that.

 

It is! Rial were actually reasonably competitive in 1988. Even scored a few points! Same goes for AGS, actually (that said, no points for AGS in '88). Their 1988 car was not too shabby at all. Nigel Mansell used those split balaclavas too :)

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

As for what's going on in that earlier AGS image, that is the return to F1 (kinda) of Didier Pironi. He tested the car in late 1986, and then did the same with a Ligier. I have subsequently discovered that McLaren were interested in him being team mate to Alain Prost in 1987, but Prost wasn't happy when it was suggested to him so it never happened. There were issues with the insurance payments Didier had received after his crash at Hockenheim in 1982, as well.

 

Pironi kept on with his fledgling powerboat racing career in 1987 instead, which sadly ended up costing him his life just off Poole Harbour in the summer of that year.

 

Oh, and @Freeman - unfortunately those rather rustic looking inlets are very real! :lol:

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Racing Point received a reprimand for running their/MerCDes rear brake ducts. I don't recall them ever being told to remove them, so what was the point of the reprimand and if they continued to run them what would the FIA do regarding further action?

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50 minutes ago, wev said:

Racing Point received a reprimand for running their/MerCDes rear brake ducts. I don't recall them ever being told to remove them, so what was the point of the reprimand and if they continued to run them what would the FIA do regarding further action?

 

Long story short, the manner in which the parts were designed was found to contravene the Sporting regulations. So they got docked some points and fined some money.

 

The parts themselves don't contravene the Technical regulations, so now they've got them, they're allowed to keep using them. 

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No, I get that, they've received an additional reprimand for running the brake ducts this weekend, there's the belief that the FIA will give them a reprimand every weekend they run them though there's been no official statement stating they need to remove them

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So this the situation as we know it...

RP bought Merc brake duct design in 2018/19 when it was allowed.

RP didn’t use them on the car in those years.

2020 rules dictate you can’t buy brake duct designs (is it because it’s an aero part?)

RP run them, are told they are legal, but get fined for how they were designed.
There is no way they’d manage to redesign and make new ones given the tight schedule we now have (despite the factory being over the road) and now they are reprimanded each race.

 

Had they stuck them on the car even for a testing season last season, none of this would be happening?

 

 

 

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  • Mr Tony changed the title to Formula One - 2020

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