Controversial Retro Opinions

[Clipper]

2 hours ago, knightbeat said:

The best *home computer* port of Midnight Resistance is on the ZX Spectrum (followed by the Atari ST).

 

 

 

the others must have been really shit

 

[Protocol Penguin]

9 hours ago, Peter St John said:

Elite: quite dull, actually.

 

*avoids brickbats*

100% CORRECT.

[spatular]

checkpoints that put you back to before where you died and take away all your power ups. It’s like the game saying see this bit you couldn’t do, try it again, but this time we’ve made it much harder. Not fun at all imo. So stuff like r-type.

[Goemon]

The 8bit/16bit computers were all bollox.

 

There I said it.

 

I know a lot of people have nostalgia for them, and I remember ‘enjoying’ them at the time...but they were bollox. The Japanese consoles blew them out of the water.

 

 

[MattyP]

5 hours ago, Goemon said:

The 8bit/16bit computers were all bollox.

 

There I said it.

 

I know a lot of people have nostalgia for them, and I remember ‘enjoying’ them at the time...but they were bollox. The Japanese consoles blew them out of the water.

 

 

 

For arcade style gaming agree. But don't forget computers did other things... so consoles were an expensive luxury especially the carts at the prices they were.

 

I found the console games really basic in idea and implementation when I bought my first one (2nd hand SNES). Only got it to play Parodius and R-Type. Must admit though they were great for these types of games. And the SNES did have some snazzy mode 7 effects.  But I couldn't type up my assignments up on it or write code AND play games.... 

[ScouserInExile]

10 hours ago, Down by Law said:

Apart from the Gamecube, I haven't liked any Nintendo consoles. 

SNES for me. Loved my SNES, never rated any other Nintendo console. To the point where I was given a GameCube and I have literally never switched it on. The Wii is good for emulation, though. 

 

Though I'm just generally not a fan of Nintendo's main IP. Mario and Zelda have never done anything for me, don't like Smash Bros, have never played Pokemon... I actually played through all the Mario Kart games up to the Wii version and came to the conclusion they aren't very good...

[dumpster]

Edge's review of Mario Kart Double Dash was spot on, despite their recent protestations that they got it wrong. From DD onwards Mario Kart games have lost the plot. Whoever is winning doesn't matter because there is always someone in last place, so there are always blue and red shells everywhere and you cannot avoid them. The game should reward practice and skill but when you are a good player you get attacked by the strong weapons of those behind you. Mario Kart is fun multiplayer party game but it is a frustrating experience all round.

 

I have never seen the appeal of Zelda games either. I just find them a tedious slog.

 

Mario represents the pinnacle of gaming quality, but the character himself is really annoying since they made him speak. Playing a game where you continually hear "ya! Huh! Wuh-hooo! Ee-ya!" is tedious.

 

Since patches, updates and a 60fps PS4 remake, Resident Evil 6 is one of the  best in the series.

 

Night Trap is a good game and most people think otherwise because they don't know how to play it.

 

[dumpster]

Sonic on Megadrive.  At the time, they introduced their new mascot character as a super fast moving hedgehog. The game starts with Green Hill Zone where Sonic races around loops, flies through the air and shouts "look how fast this is!" And everyone shouted back, "wow, sonic the hedgehog is so faaaaast" and everyone loved Sonic. 

 

No-one seemed to notice that after green hill zone the game is slow, sluggish, Sonic handles unresponsively, and they do things like underwater levels to slow you down further. There were good parts to the Megadrive Sonic games but they are not anywhere near as good as people made them out to be.

[Dudley]

18 hours ago, Nick R said:

My big controversial opinion, which I've posted about before, is that I like Sega's Zelda clone The Story of Thor (Beyond Oasis) more than Zelda: A Link to the Past:

 

 

 

I only discovered this when I did a series on the mega drive mini (gestures at youtube link) and I just went back and watched the 90 seconds on this game.

 

Yeah, I didn't know it was a Zelda clone but that's exactly my thoughts too but also I really liked the first 15 minutes at least as much as any Zelda.  I name Secret of Mana as something it feels like too but that might just be graphical. To tie neatly into this thread its music is by Yuzo Koshiro (SoR2) and Ancient also wrote the Master System Sonic 1.

 

28 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Edge's review of Mario Kart Double Dash was spot on, despite their recent protestations that they got it wrong. From DD onwards Mario Kart games have lost the plot. Whoever is winning doesn't matter because there is always someone in last place, so there are always blue and red shells everywhere and you cannot avoid them. The game should reward practice and skill but when you are a good player you get attacked by the strong weapons of those behind you. Mario Kart is fun multiplayer party game but it is a frustrating experience all round.

 

Yes! I love MK8 but I've played maybe an hour solo.  It's all been online and time trial, which is great but I'd happily go play several single player championships on the original right now.

 

21 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Sonic on Megadrive.  At the time, they introduced their new mascot character as a super fast moving hedgehog. The game starts with Green Hill Zone where Sonic races around loops, flies through the air and shouts "look how fast this is!" And everyone shouted back, "wow, sonic the hedgehog is so faaaaast" and everyone loved Sonic. 

 

No-one seemed to notice that after green hill zone the game is slow, sluggish, Sonic handles unresponsively, and they do things like underwater levels to slow you down further. There were good parts to the Megadrive Sonic games but they are not anywhere near as good as people made them out to be.

 

I noticed! I said as much in the same video series as above!  Although Sonic 2 suffers much much less.

 

Sonic 2 is basically the game everyone thinks Sonic 1 is.

[ScouserInExile]

32 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Mario Kart is fun multiplayer party game but it is a frustrating experience all round.

As I've mentioned, I worked my way through the series from SNES to Wii (I think there's a handheld version I didn't play - GBA maybe? I did play the DS version), since I don't have a WiiU or Switch. "Frustrating" is the right word. From the get go and right throughout, the game consistently cheats, meaning that if the game decides you aren't going to win, you won't. There is rubber banding and there is a slower kart blasting past you just before you cross the line, all Mario Kart games lean on the latter to keep things "interesting".

 

Said it before and I'll keep saying it - without the Mario IP, the series wouldn't have got past the first iteration. If it was Bubsy Kart, I would have reviewed badly and sold nothing. But I've experienced a good example of the draw of Mario - my kids have never played a Mario game, but the first time I was firing up MK on the Wii, they were saying "I want to be Mario", "I want to be Peach", "I want to be Bowser". They'd never played the games, but they knew all the characters.

[dumpster]

Sonic Transformed (despite the horrific difficulty spike near the end) is a significantly better take on the cart racer and it's not got anything like the hallowed reputation of MK.

[MikeJ]

1 hour ago, dumpster said:

Sonic on Megadrive.  At the time, they introduced their new mascot character as a super fast moving hedgehog. The game starts with Green Hill Zone where Sonic races around loops, flies through the air and shouts "look how fast this is!" And everyone shouted back, "wow, sonic the hedgehog is so faaaaast" and everyone loved Sonic. 

 

No-one seemed to notice that after green hill zone the game is slow, sluggish, Sonic handles unresponsively, and they do things like underwater levels to slow you down further. There were good parts to the Megadrive Sonic games but they are not anywhere near as good as people made them out to be.

I always preferred the Master System versions of Sonic 1/2 for the above reasons, but this may be a heavily rose tinted view. 

[Lorfarius]

13 minutes ago, mikejenkins said:

I always preferred the Master System versions of Sonic 1/2 for the above reasons, but this may be a heavily rose tinted view. 

 

Nah, they are really good games that run with the original ideas and come up with something new. Just the second hits a brick wall early on with the stupid hang glider controls  Felt like you need to be an airline pilot to fly that properly.

[Dudley]

44 minutes ago, mikejenkins said:

I always preferred the Master System versions of Sonic 1/2 for the above reasons, but this may be a heavily rose tinted view. 

 

A slight tinge maybe but Lorf is right, they've aged really well and the truly SMS only Sonic Chaos remains one of my all time favourite games even though it's very visibly clear it's pushing the machine right to breaking point.

[Nick R]

2 hours ago, dumpster said:

Sonic on Megadrive.  At the time, they introduced their new mascot character as a super fast moving hedgehog. The game starts with Green Hill Zone where Sonic races around loops, flies through the air and shouts "look how fast this is!" And everyone shouted back, "wow, sonic the hedgehog is so faaaaast" and everyone loved Sonic. 

 

No-one seemed to notice that after green hill zone the game is slow, sluggish, Sonic handles unresponsively, and they do things like underwater levels to slow you down further. There were good parts to the Megadrive Sonic games but they are not anywhere near as good as people made them out to be.

 

Green Hill is definitely the best level in the first game, though Star Light lets you go really fast too. The fact that the sequels had better cave levels than Marble Zone, better water levels than Labyrinth, and better bumper levels than Spring Yard is the main reason I can never agree with people who say that Sonic 1 is better than 2, 3 & Knuckles, or Mania. (It's better than CD, though: now there's a game with some disjointed level design!)

 

People have tried to justify the slowing down of the game in Marble Zone by saying that it's essentially showing off what would happen if you put Sonic into a typical level from a NES platformer. Not sure I agree but it's an interesting idea and a good piece of level design analysis:

 

https://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1831884&postcount=35

 

(From this series: https://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=15962)

 

 

I completely disagree with you that the controls are unresponsive: yes the character takes a while to build up speed, but even the lightest single-frame button tap has an instantly visible effect on his movement. You don't get the swallowed inputs, or the disconnect between animation and movement, that happened with lesser 8/16-bit games.

 

47 minutes ago, mikejenkins said:

I always preferred the Master System versions of Sonic 1/2 for the above reasons, but this may be a heavily rose tinted view. 

 

The Master System versions have some more interesting level designs than the MD versions, but the simplified downgrade of the movement physics means I can never claim they're better than the MD ones.

 

With all the impressively ambitious fan-made ROM hacks people have made over the years, you'd have thought that somebody would have remade Master System Sonic 1 in the Mega Drive game engine by now!

[matt0]

All Sonic games would be massively improved if you just reduced Sonic's inertia by about 30%.

[Death's Head]

1 hour ago, Nick R said:

People have tried to justify the slowing down of the game in Marble Zone by saying that it's essentially showing off what would happen if you put Sonic into a typical level from a NES platformer. Not sure I agree but it's an interesting idea and a good piece of level design analysis:

 

https://www.talking-time.net/showpost.php?p=1831884&postcount=35

 

(From this series: https://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=15962)

 

Well, there goes my Saturday!

 

My controversial opinion is that I've always rated Mario Kart 64 over the SNES original. I enjoyed the SNES one in its day but thought the N64 one improved on it in almost every way save the battle mode (and even then, we made the best of it).

[Corranga]

Obviously a lot of subjective stuff in here, plenty I agree with too.

 

On 14/02/2020 at 13:10, Skull Commander said:

I will defend this one to the death: Aladdin Snes is FAR superior to the Megadrive version. Graphics aside I just don't enjoy the loose feeling "Shiny by numbers" version and would much rather play the Capcom version which feels better in every regard and has an absolutely amazing soundtrack. 

 

When the Switch Disney classics launched, I was disappointed that they put the wrong Aladdin on it.  Was never sure if it was rose tinted though as my first ever game was SNES Aladdin (or Mario Allstars as I got them both on the same Xmas)

 

On 14/02/2020 at 13:17, DeciderVT said:

Anyway, let's throw some fuel on the fire: Mario Kart 64 is far, far superior to Diddy Kong Racing.

 

Diddy Kong always felt slow and less precise to me, and cluttered with the planes etc. and I played MK64 to death.

 

On 14/02/2020 at 13:38, ScouserInExile said:

I'll see you Mario Kart opinion and raise you: Street Racer is better than Super Mario Kart. It's only the Mario ip that made MK stand out.

 

I enjoyed them equally at the time, but Street Racer isn't quite as tight and is much easier (less rubber banding...).  I remember doing custom cups with maximum 50 laps as Hodja to see how much I could destroy the AI characters. 

 

43 minutes ago, Death's Head said:

 

Well, there goes my Saturday!

 

My controversial opinion is that I've always rated Mario Kart 64 over the SNES original. I enjoyed the SNES one in its day but thought the N64 one improved on it in almost every way save the battle mode (and even then, we made the best of it).

 

I've always thought this too, but a huge part of that for me was the 4 player mode, to the point where I can't tell among all of the rose tinted stuff.

 

 

 

 

My turn....

 

PGR2 is much better than anything with Forza written on it, and PGR3 is better than 2.

 

[Dudley]

On 14/02/2020 at 13:38, ScouserInExile said:

I'll see you Mario Kart opinion and raise you: Street Racer is better than Super Mario Kart. It's only the Mario ip that made MK stand out.

 

Having played them both recently, you're mad.

 

The racing is worse, the items are worse, the battle mode is a joke and thanks to the lack of the DSP-1, the courses are a flat fuzzy mess that are really diffcult to navigate when they're not memorised. (Note, this is specifically the SNES version, the MD and Saturn ones are very different from it, and each other)

 

Street Racer isn't bad, but it's not even close.

 

 

See here's the issue, because of the lack of the DSP-1 there's no height, so all the detail is completely lost.  Those bits on the right are solid but at speed, who even knows.

[DukeOfEarlsfield]

40 minutes ago, Freeman said:

PGR2 is much better than anything with Forza written on it, and PGR3 is better than 2.

And Metropolis Street Racer is better than all of them.

[Rex Grossman]

3 hours ago, Dudley said:

 

Having played them both recently, you're mad.

 

The racing is worse, the items are worse, the battle mode is a joke and thanks to the lack of the DSP-1, the courses are a flat fuzzy mess that are really diffcult to navigate when they're not memorised. (Note, this is specifically the SNES version, the MD and Saturn ones are very different from it, and each other)

 

Street Racer isn't bad, but it's not even close.

 

 

See here's the issue, because of the lack of the DSP-1 there's no height, so all the detail is completely lost.  Those bits on the right are solid but at speed, who even knows.

It was a perfectly fine game but I only bought it back in the day for its 4-player mode. It wasn’t great due to the way it was horizontally stacked.

[ScouserInExile]

28 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

It was a perfectly fine game but I only bought it back in the day for its 4-player mode. It wasn’t great due to the way it was horizontally stacked.

8 player on PS1...

[Stoppy2000]

On 14/02/2020 at 13:38, ScouserInExile said:

 

I'll see you Mario Kart opinion and raise you: Street Racer is better than Super Mario Kart. It's only the Mario ip that made MK stand out.

Street Racer is utter garbage compared to MK. No sense of speed, weight or impact. Plus the tracks are crap. Even the worst MK game absolutely destroys it. So I guess you have fulfilled the controversial criteria!

[Monkeyspill]

Sonic 3 is the weakest of the original Mega Drive trilogy (the first was the best). The levels were just too big and confusing.

[Lumpy]

On 15/02/2020 at 10:04, dumpster said:

Sonic Transformed (despite the horrific difficulty spike near the end) is a significantly better take on the cart racer and it's not got anything like the hallowed reputation of MK.

 

Definitely agree with this.

 

Is Team Sonic Racing any good do you know? Boy I miss Transformed.

[Skull Commander]

I'd say transformed is better than every Mario Kart except the original. I still hold Super Mario Kart in the highest regard. It just did so much right, from the time trials to the amazing battle mode. 

[Stoppy2000]

Its easy to win on MK vs the CPU. You just need to know which items to use and when. The rubber banding keeps things close that's all. 

[beakbeak]

The N64 was an underwhelming console and the graphics were blurry and rubbish. 

[Treble]

Sonic Colors is completely misunderstood and is the best Sonic game ever made. It's exactly what Sonic Team tried (and failed) to achieve with Adventure.

[Lorfarius]

29 minutes ago, Treble said:

Sonic Colors is completely misunderstood and is the best Sonic game ever made. It's exactly what Sonic Team tried (and failed) to achieve with Adventure.

 

Looks more like Generations. Adventure was all about the 3D baby!