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Question for you guys with pedals... when you brake do you keep your heel planted and use your ankles as a pivot?  Or do you fully lift your leg and push forward on the brake without much ankle movement?  (i.e. using your leg muscles to push?)

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11 minutes ago, milko said:

I think I use my ankle to pivot, but honestly I've got problems building there, I suspect due to not having much of an arch in my foot. I end up curling my toes, pressing with them too much and it's not good. 

 

I wondered why my new sprint pedals have the brake pedal face sitting higher than the throttle, and was reading that the throttle is lower so than you can rest and pivot the ankle to apply pressure (with it requiring less force) but for the brake you should lift and push with your leg muscles.

 

I realised I was doing the same for both (resting and pivoting the ankle) so I've just done a practice session where I was concious to lift my foot off the pedal tray when braking.  It felt much easier to trail brake moving the whole leg off rather than pivoting the ankle.

 

More experimentation needed!

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20 hours ago, davejm said:

Question for you guys with pedals... when you brake do you keep your heel planted and use your ankles as a pivot?  Or do you fully lift your leg and push forward on the brake without much ankle movement?  (i.e. using your leg muscles to push?)

 

When braking in a straight line, I fully lift my heel. Then when it gets to the trail braking, I rest my heel again for more accuracy.

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Meers said:

TT Circuit Assen (my home circuit - yay!) has been added to RaceRoom! Gotta get back into it!

 

 

Absolutely fantastic circuit. I’m lucky enough to have been there in 

98 to see Fogarty win in the World Superbikes. Amazing place, amazing atmosphere on the campsite.

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5 hours ago, Count Buffalos said:

Has anyone got any experience of VR in Raceroom?


I’ve tried it a few times, and it’s pretty good. 
 

There’s a weird bug though - when you first start the game your viewpoint starts way, way up in the air. If you look straight down you can see a teeny dot which is the menu. You need to reset the view using the Quest handset to be repositioned in front of the menu. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Anyone tried Kartkraft?  It's out of early access now.  They've added my local circuit (Whilton Mill) and I'm going to start karting there this summer, so hopefully a great way to practice for real life 😀

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  • 3 weeks later...

UPS have delivered 2 of my 5 Fanatec parcels today..

 

I'm working today, but just had time to try the Black Friday P1 rim on my CSL Elite base, others waiting in the background!

 

image.thumb.png.a612904db72b9733da9ed793aff511a8.png

 

I'm missing load cell brake, boost kit, and metal pedal front thingys, which the UPS guy says "might turn up tomorrow"

 

 

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4 hours ago, Meers said:

That thing that says 'McLaren GT3' there is really good.

 

Are you solely racing on console or PC too?

 

I've had the McLaren rim for a while now, it is great, though mine clunks when the FFB switches from one direction to the other (almost like it's taking up slack in the connection to the wheel base / a tolerance), I have a ticket open with Fanatec about this, and said I'd test the wheelbase with my new wheel / McLaren rim on the new base to see if I can narrow it down.

 

I'm console only, in fact more or less GT Sport only, soon to become ACC (PS5) and GT7 of course.

 

Another nice guy from UPS brought me more presents!  I now have pedal plates and a boost kit, but still no load cell, which the tracking says will be here 3 hours ago :D

 

 

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13 hours ago, Corranga said:

I've had the McLaren rim for a while now, it is great, though mine clunks when the FFB switches from one direction to the other (almost like it's taking up slack in the connection to the wheel base / a tolerance), I have a ticket open with Fanatec about this, and said I'd test the wheelbase with my new wheel / McLaren rim on the new base to see if I can narrow it down.

 

Mine used to clunk as well, it was very annoying. I've stuck a bit of isolation tape on the wheelbase shaft (found that tip on YT), just enough that it doesn't clunk anymore and that it still comes off easily enough. Seems to have done the trick.

 

 

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Ok, so, here we go.  I have a house that looks like a Fanatec warehouse right now!

 

So, I preordered a GT DD Pro when it went live on Black Friday.  The estimated delivery date was 10/03, but, 2nd Xmas came early.

Last Thursday, Fanatec dispatched it, and despite UPS best efforts, initially estimating Monday for delivery, and then delivering 4/5 packages on Tuesday, the last one arrived yesterday and I'm all set up.

 

I've spent a few hours putting it through it's paces now, first on Tuesday night playing around with the GT DD Pro wheelbase and the new GT wheel rim, along with my existing McLaren GT3 rim, and my old CSL Elite LC pedals (as the missing box was the new load cell pedal).

Then on Wednesday when the new CSL Load Cell arrived, I set the new pedals up.

 

I can only compare to my old CSL Elite wheelbase as, well, I'm crazy and it was my first wheel...

 

The CSL Elite is good, very good even.  At 6Nm, it's strong, and it responds well, and there is some nice subtlety to it too, you can feel rough surfaces, kerbs, all you'd expect, and if you crank it up, and aren't paying attention, it'll whip the wheel around enough to wrap a knuckle or two.

 

Disclaimer - I've only used it for GT Sport, playing on PS5.

 

The wheel base

The GT DD Pro genuinely feels in a different league.  Direct is right, no latency in the wheel delivering the feeling to your hands giving you the ability to naturally react to what is going on.  It feels a genuine step above the CSL Elite.  I'd set myself up to be slightly disappointed coming from the Elite to the DD, but I'd say I'm suitably impressed. A genuine upgrade.

 

From the off, it's a heavy old thing, the T-nut fixing is a great plan and allows decent flexibility.  I was able to pick up 3 mounting holes on my existing rig without resorting to panicking sand looking for a drill!  Note, it doesn't come with bolts, you need M6x10m plus the thickness of your mounting point, so 5mm metal base, you'll want a 15mm or 16mm+washer.  If it's too long, it'll basically screw into the casing!

 

Fanatec's auto mode, which, I admit, I didn't play around with too much, it also a bit of a game changer.

You can simply plug it in, and it works.  If feels really good from the off, while it took me a long time to go through all of the settings on the Elite to get something I was happy with.  It shows you the settings, but simply says "locked" when you try to adjust.  This means you can copy (write them down) and replicate on a custom mode as a basis.  I'm almost certain this included locking the FFB setting, which I think is a mistake, as it basically means the wheelbase runs at 100%.

Plug it in with the regular adapter, you get 5Mn which is probably fine, use the boost kit for 8Nm and if you have weak arms like me, it's too much.

On that note, at 5Nm, it felt about the same as my CSL Elite (which I was running at about 75% so say 4.5Nm max).  I didn't use the regular power pack for long, but the feeling was certainly still there, if a little less of it.  Plug in the boost kit, and I can't say it comes alive compared to the regular one, but it's definitely strong.  The 100% 8Nm as I say was too much for me, compromising how quickly I could turn the wheel / respond, and easily feeling heavier than any real life car I've driven other than at parking speeds that is.  For me, the right level is somewhere in the middle.

 

On the subject of the boost kit, for 150 Euros for a new power supply, I always knew it was a bit of a rip off, but it wasn't until I flipped out my pedals that I realised how much of a rip off.  The boost kit is literally exactly the same power pack as the CSL Elite, down to having the same Fanatec part number on it!  There is a difference in the cabling, it's thicker and of course has a proprietary fitting on the end of the cable for the DD so I couldn't use the old one, but given the additional cost, it does feel like Fanatec taking the piss a little, and prioritising profits..

 

 

image.thumb.png.3cd39bb821d677ff1b132359a8889add.png

 

The Wheel Rim

Perhaps the most contentious thing when the GT DD Pro was the rim itself, which is very clearly Polyphony inspired.  The toy like appearance with colourful rings around the sticks, the massive GT logo and the silver plastic tat half moon at the bottom.  I'm going to tell you all exactly what you want to hear.  It's actually really nice to use!

It's fairly lightweight and of course plasticky, but doesn't have that hollow plastic feeling the McLaren rim has.  Physics of these things mean you do want a weight compromise anyway, less weight to turn means more response from the base into your hands.

 

I can only compare to Fanatec P1, and McLaren GT3 rims as that's all I have.

Comparing initially to both of my other rims, the GT rim comes in at only 280mm compared to the 300mm of the P1 and McLaren ones. 

The small size perhaps adds to the toy appearance of it, but it does feel nice to drive with.  The smaller size accentuates a little the forces and 

The rubber perhaps isn't too premium feeling, but it's grippy and feels similar to other Fanatec rubber rims. It's not unpleasant, and I'm sure it's much more durable than alcantara or leather.

It feels chunkier than my alcantara P1, but about the same as my black friday rubber one.

 

Moving onto the sticks and buttons. The sticks with the coloured rings feel decent.  They are easily reachable with your hands on the wheel, even with my moderately small hands.  They are all directional and press in.  As I'm sure we all know by now, in GT Sport, they operate the equivalent dashboard controls.  This works well as a shortcut, but you have to be aware of what they are actually doing...

- Let's say you are running 0 brake balance (red) (options run from -5 to +5 so you're right in the middle)

- Let's say the game is displaying Traction control (blue)

- You press down on the red stick - note that only the vertical axis affects GT Sport, left / right / press does nothing)

- By pressing down, you decrement the setting AND the dash in game switches to it, so you're now on -1 and viewing Brake Balance.

- If you want to check where your brake balance is, you either need to press the stick up then down (or vice versa) essentially, changing it then changing it back, or use the normal directional stick at he bottom left of the wheel to scroll left / right as normal.

- If you're at an extremity in the first place (say, fuel map 1) and you press down on green stick, it'll simply display as 1 is the lowest extreme.

The 4 'playstation shape' buttons are small but easy to reach while driving, and feel quite nice too somehow.

 

On to the not so good..  The normal directional stick at he bottom left of the wheel feels... flimsy.  They should have simply fitted the regular P1 stick, or another of the coloured sticks, or even better the funky switch from the McLaren rim.  It feels a little like the top isn't quite attached or something, loose movement before it operates, not that reassuring for the button you'll use most often in menus anyway. The L and R 2 and 3 buttons mean moving your hand, and the overhang nature of them makes them feel vulnerable to me, an accidental hit from behind (somehow) and I think they'd be broken off.

The Playstation, screenshot and pause button are all suitably out of reach, no accidental presses.

 

The gear shift paddles..  These feel ok, a bit like buttons though. They actually remind me a lot of the Mini Cooper S courtesy car I had for 5 weeks after my old car was written off.  Nice shape, no drama.  The metal levers on the P1 feel better (and are still just buttons), the metal bar on the McLaren with it's crazy loud and satisfying feeling clunk is way, way better.  Perfectly usable, but definitely good, not great.

 

 

image.png.337b7698628639b846da7afe304d30c8.png

 

The Pedals

As I said earlier, I first used the DD with my old CSL Elite pedals.  I'm not convinced these are better...

They actually feel more reassuringly heavy than they look, but compared to the rock that is the CSL Elite pedals, they are clearly not so well made.

The front mounting points are easier (the Elite's have a crazy small hole for you to try to get a nut into on the top, while you try to get the bolt to line up from below, the new CLS's have 2 captive M6 threaded sections underneath.  But ease isn't always the side of the compromise you want.  I used M8 for my Elite's with nyloc nuts, they weren't going anywhere. 

The options on pedal mounting are identical, as you can see, I run my brake closer to the clutch rather than evenly spaced.  My Elite's were in the same locations.

The single mounting hole on the new pedals isn't in the best location (despite all the slots on my pedal plate, it meets none of them) meaning I had to opt for the twin holes at the top. This meant removing, or cutting the rubber grips stuck onto the bottom.

 

The Elite pedals themselves had aluminum cast bases rather than these folded metal design and felt much much stronger, then also had threaded rods to go between them to keep everything in ling, much more sturdy all around.

 

Moving onto the use, the hall sensors of the new accelerator and clutch should last longer, but unsurprisingly feel the same.  The spring rates on the pedals also feel very similar, with the acc and clutch having different rated springs, and the clutch having the optional foam insert for brake use.  Genuinely, in use, I couldn't tell the difference at all.  If anything, the lack of curvature on the pedals felt slightly better for modulating the throttle.

But the brake...  There is good and bad here.

The load cell is good, same tech as the old pedals, nice and easy to use pressure to lightly apply the brakes or heavy braking.

The range is lower than the old pedals, I used to have them set to 60 or 70 (percent of maximum force essentially) but now am at 80-90.  Not much of an issue, but if you want a proper strong leg push, there is less options here.

 

The pedal feel on the other hand... the old Elite's give more customisation.  You could swap out the stack of elastomer shores for softer or harder ones, which in effect gave you a pedal that was harder or softer to press, and also effected the distance it'd travel.  I used a medium pedal, with a bit of travel.

The new CSL pedals have only 1 setting.  It's short travel, and it's pretty firm.

 

On the other hand, the old Elite's had a foam ring, in the stack.  Without it, I managed to split one of the softer shores that I used instead.  With it, there is a bit of play especially as mine has compressed a little through use.

 

In summary... I prefer the customisation and ability to have longer pedal movement of the older CSL Elite LC brake pedal, but I prefer the immediacy of the CSL LC pedal..

 

 

 

Sorry for rambling on for so long, I didn't plan it this way!!  Any questions, please ask :) 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Corranga said:

On the subject of the boost kit, for 150 Euros for a new power supply, I always knew it was a bit of a rip off, but it wasn't until I flipped out my pedals that I realised how much of a rip off.  The boost kit is literally exactly the same power pack as the CSL Elite, down to having the same Fanatec part number on it!  There is a difference in the cabling, it's thicker and of course has a proprietary fitting on the end of the cable for the DD so I couldn't use the old one, but given the additional cost, it does feel like Fanatec taking the piss a little, and prioritising profits..

 

Great post!  Just wanted to chime in on this bit; I think it's more a case of Fanatec trying to offset the loss leader of the wheelbase itself.  I suspect they've had to offer the base at, or below, the cost it takes them to build it, to undercut the rest of the DD market by such a huge amount.  I don't know for sure of course, but I suspect they're trying to claw some of this back by over-charging for the boost kit.

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20 minutes ago, SharkyOB said:

 

Great post!  Just wanted to chime in on this bit; I think it's more a case of Fanatec trying to offset the loss leader of the wheelbase itself.  I suspect they've had to offer the base at, or below, the cost it takes them to build it, to undercut the rest of the DD market by such a huge amount.  I don't know for sure of course, but I suspect they're trying to claw some of this back by over-charging for the boost kit.

 

I think you're right actually.  It also places the CSL DD + Boost Kit right in the sort of Clubsport (i think it was called) price range, and indeed spec wise (well, torque) it's equivalent too.

 

I don't think they'll be selling at a loss mind, perhaps more that the profit margins on the boost kit are in the high percentages while the bundle is much lower.

 

Obviously, the CSL DD (pc only) base stuffs this up for them even more as they are only selling the GT Pro as a bundle right now.

Sony not approving the stand alone base for sale yet is a convenient earner for Fanatec with slightly impatient folk like me (but not so impatient as to pay premium shipping!) who could have gone base only decided to go all in.

 

I'm sure they can add in a long list of folk who will buy extra rims and gearsticks etc too as they are into the ecosystem.

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Nice review mate, but I'm not sure if I'd call the Macca GT3 rim plasticky (the P1 one, sure).

 

Nice rig as well! It would be a shame if...it wouldn't be connected to a PC that's running ACC so that you could join a bunch of old geezers in some online racing. :P ;)

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1 hour ago, Meers said:

Nice review mate, but I'm not sure if I'd call the Macca GT3 rim plasticky (the P1 one, sure).

 

I think I just didn't explain myself very well, though Fanatec making the same things with different materials doesn't help...

 

This is for everyone, I realise you have the Macca rim :)

 

The McLaren rim, as in the whole thing, when not attached to a wheelbase, feels like a hollow plastic box.  It's lightweight, and the noise, of the shifters for example, sort of echoes through it's hollowness. The texture of the middle of the wheel, has a sort of fake carbon look - it's actually chequered, 2 different textures in the plastic.  The actual grips are a nice soft touch rubbery feel, and don't at all feel like plastic.   This doesn't equate to it feeling cheap though, when you stick it on a wheel base the plastic hollow box feeling largely disappears.  It's great, and I'm going to be a little torn between using it (with the decent button placement and lovely shifters) and and the GT rim (which is more convenient for GT Sport).  I expect if ACC on PS5 turns out to be good, I'll prefer the McLaren wheel and it's wealth of nice switches for that.

 

By comparison, I have 2x P1s at the moment.

On the left is the Xbox P1. Alcantara rim, and the 'T' shaped wheel centre is actually a metal plate.  Clamp and bolt fitment like on the last page.

The shifter paddles are also metal, painted black in this case. Oddly enough this P1 is the LEAST plasticky feeling of my 4 and actually feels quite premium.

 

On the right is the Black Friday P1 (which I think is more like your one @Meers, but with a QR Lite on the back).  It's has textured rubbery grip, and the grip has a wider diameter (where your fingers wrap around, not the width of the whole wheel) than the Alcantara one - look at the thickness near the thumb rests in particular in the photo and you can see it's thicker.  The 'T' shaped wheel centre is plastic pretending to be carbon fibre. 

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.d2f3a983bb9956f05748f9f8b6f517b3.png

 

I bought the Black Friday one potentially to sell on (or to replace my other P1) figuring selling the CSL Elite as a bundle might be easier, but I'm actually inclined to think selling separately makes more sense.  I'd also heard that some of the old clamp based fitment wheels didn't get on with the CSL DD.

I've now got the first world problem of - keep the nicer Alcantara rim with inferior clamp and bolt fitment, but working on Xbox vs. the newer Removable QR1 P1 that feels rubbery and is Playstation only ;)

 

 

1 hour ago, Meers said:

Nice rig as well! It would be a shame if...it wouldn't be connected to a PC that's running ACC so that you could join a bunch of old geezers in some online racing. :P ;)

 

I had that dilemma.  Invest in the racing rig, or invest (well, buy!) a gaming rig, I chose the racing rig. 

I genuinely really enjoy GT Sport, and the MNRC community from here are a huge part of that.

Right now, I don't really want the hassles, or costs of PC gaming, maybe that'll change in a few years, I don't know.

 

 

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thanks for posting impressions Corranga, sounds great! glad you said it's still good without the boost pack as a lot of youtube reviews say you need it, i suspect they're coming from more expensive/stronger direct drive wheels so it only seems weak in comparison. i should be fine coming from a t300, and using the desk clamp the lower power one will probably be better too. my finger is hovering closer to the buy button but still undecided because of the increased cost (over the csl i was planning to get) and still not sure about getting an xbox rim and if so which one - gt3 or wrc - i know the wrc one is more practical but i really like the look of the gt3 one :wacko:

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Great review Corranga. Really quite surprised you thought it was a significant step up from the CSL Elite. I was thinking of sweeping up a 2nd hand CSL Elite as I imagine there’ll be a few knocking about on eBay this summer. Now I think I’ll look to getting a DD Pro. It sounds awesome, I’m glad you’re happy with it

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Thinking of getting a Drivehub so that I can use my CSL-DD on PS5.  But it looks like a wired PS4 pad is required so that it doesn't go into standby mode, and there's some debate as to whether one of those older pads will work with GT7.

 

And there's my pedals to consider too.  Not sure if my HE Sprints will work. 😬

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1 hour ago, Junker said:

Great review Corranga. Really quite surprised you thought it was a significant step up from the CSL Elite. I was thinking of sweeping up a 2nd hand CSL Elite as I imagine there’ll be a few knocking about on eBay this summer. Now I think I’ll look to getting a DD Pro. It sounds awesome, I’m glad you’re happy with it


I’m genuinely surprised too. It just feels more naturally to me

I’m keeping an eye in CSL Elite prices on eBay for selling mine and they haven’t moved much yet.

I was using Suzuka in the Gr.3 McLaren for my initial tests, I switched to the Lambo and did 3 laps without binning  it, and only 1 second down on the car I’m familiar with.

I often talk about over-correcting when a car starts to slide, I now think this might be my brain not coping with a slight latency in the CSL Elite..

 

1 hour ago, davejm said:

Thinking of getting a Drivehub so that I can use my CSL-DD on PS5.  But it looks like a wired PS4 pad is required so that it doesn't go into standby mode, and there's some debate as to whether one of those older pads will work with GT7.

 

And there's my pedals to consider too.  Not sure if my HE Sprints will work. 😬

 

Wait for them solo GT DD Pro base and sell the CSL DD?
 

Assuming Sony every give it approval of course.  I’d be worried that something like a drive hub could introduce lag or simply not function as it should.

Doesn’t help with your amazing pedals mind..

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4 hours ago, davejm said:

Thinking of getting a Drivehub so that I can use my CSL-DD on PS5.  But it looks like a wired PS4 pad is required so that it doesn't go into standby mode, and there's some debate as to whether one of those older pads will work with GT7.

 

I can confirm this. The Drivehub worked flawlessly with the PS4, but with the PS5, the DS4 is disconnected every few minutes, and you have to unplug & plug it again, which is not a solution at all.

 

For some reason, the blue version of the Hori minipad was half the price at Amazon, so I bought one for 15€. Everything works fine again, we'll see what happens with GT7.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Humble Bundle currently has an "Ultimate Sim Racing Bundle" up for grabs.  £10 for the top tier gets you

 

Assetto Corsa Ultimate edition

Assetto Corsa Competizione

RFactor 2

Automobilista

Automobilista 2

Nascar Heat 5

Drift21

and a 3 month subscription to iRacing!

 

 

https://www.humblebundle.com/games/ultimate-racing-sim-bundle?hmb_source=&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_1_layout_type_threes_tile_index_1_c_ultimateracingsimbundle_bundle

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So I bought this pack and gifted AC and ACC to my kids as I obviously had them already.

 

I've now tried out some of the others in the bundle  - here are my initial thoughts.

 

Drift 21 - graphically OK.  The "build your own car" bits are mandatory and I found them to be annoying and just getting in the way of just driving and drifting.  I played on pad and found it an amusing handling model.  Wild weight transitions and leery angles with every stab of throttle.  No VR support.  The tutorial doesn't do a great job of telling you what all the clipping point/zones/drift zones actually are - so that kinda means trial and error for the first few challenges in the tutorial.  Not really a sim at all.  6.5/10

 

iRacing - wow this feels like a game from the 1990s!  The interface/UI are so convoluted and outdated it's comical.   I mean they get the job done - but ergh.  I got great frame rates in VR, and my TS-PC wheel worked nicely.  Feedback was good, and the driving model felt pretty solid.  Graphically it's fine - but a bit basic.  There's hardly any content provided with the base game either.  I tried the included formula Vee open wheeler round Oulton Park.  But nearly all the other cars and tracks are paid for DLC (approx £13 each car or track) which feels shitty in a premium priced paid monthly product.    I struggled a LOT with clutch/h-pattern shifting.  Lots and lots of shifting into N when attempting to power out of corners.  AC doesn't have that issue - so its the game, rather than my hardware.  I found it very frustrating and couldn't work out what I was doing wrong.   Will try a few online races over the free sub period, but at the moment it certainly doesn't feel worth the subscription monthly price.   7/10

 

Automobilista 2 - ah, now this is good!  Graphically very nice.  Runs really well (makes ACC look very poorly optimised!).  VR support is great too.  My hardware was all detected and worked first time, bar a few key bindings needing tweaking (VR re-centre being the main one).  The handling model is great.  Its probably not 100% *sim*  Theres a bit more playfulness to it - but I found myself grinning and really enjoying hooning about in the test drive sessions I did.  I took a Merc AMG GT3 round Oulton Park (so I could compare against iRacings and ACC's versions of the track).  Really good - I think I had more *fun* than driving in ACC!  😊   I will play this lots I think.  The variety of cars and tracks looks good, and I know there's a whole heap of DLC already for this game if I feel the need (although it looks quite pricey on Steam)    I'd consider racing online with this in ACC off weeks perhaps?  9/10

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I was thinking about that bundle too, but it would literally only be for AMS2 so would maybe make more sense to wait for an individual sale bundle on that and DLC. It's based on the Project Cars 2 engine I think?

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