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Unreal Engine 5 Revealed

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1 hour ago, JoeK said:

I think I missed something - the tech demo we watched at the presentation: was it sped up to make it look like 60fps or something? Because it looked smooth as anything when I watched it?

 

 

It's 30fps with decent motion blur on top.  

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41 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

It's 30fps with decent motion blur on top.  

 

If a game plays as smooth as that, then I'll be perfectly happy. My eyes were looking at that and thinking it was smooth as you like! 

 

Or I'm going blind and I should take a trip to the opticians...

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On 16/05/2020 at 19:18, CarloOos said:

 

Sure, it's UHD with dynamic res. I mean, who cares? I'd rather every game ran with dynamic res, with good enough post processing you can't tell at all.

 

Which is kind of the point I've been trying to make, image processing in games is at a stage where resolution doesn't matter as much any more. Big budget games now have simulated bokeh, lens distortion, light bounce and will top it off with actual anti-aliasing, all of which are intended to soften the image organically rather than sharpen it. If you're not going to see any aliasing then chasing the biggest number possible is mostly pointless. You'll never see people in the 4k Blu-Ray thread complaining they can literally see the pixels of a 2k film, because they can't. 

 

Rendering resolution and sharpness have been the sort of thing power users have been pissing money up the wall chasing for a very long time, getting people to get out of that mindset isn't going to happen overnight, especially with hardware manufacturers still pushing that mantra.

 

But it's good to see more people on board the #Faux-K train. Better quality pixels is always preferable to more of lower quality ones.

 

Timothy Lottes posited a similar idea 8 years ago so reality is finally starting to catch up to what he thought was the better way forward:

 

Quote

"The industry status quo is to push ultra-high display resolution, ultra-high texture resolution, and ultra sharpness. In my opinion, a more interesting next-generation metric is, can an engine on an ultra high-end PC rendering at 720p look as real as a DVD quality movie?"

 

And other CG industry professionals agreed with his sentiment at the time:

 

Quote

"We do what is essentially MSAA. Then we do a lens distortion that makes the image incredibly soft (amongst other blooms/blurs/etc). Softness/noise/grain is part of film and something we often embrace. Jaggies we avoid like the plague and thus we anti-alias the crap out of our images," Horne added. "In the end it's still the same conclusion: games oversample versus film. I've always thought that film res was more than enough res. I don't know how you will get gamers to embrace a film aesthetic, but it shouldn't be impossible."

 

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1. Something I'm kinda confused about is the claim that there is no longer need for lightmaps. ALL lighting can be real-time lights, is this new? Has any other AAA typical action game (GodOfWar/Control?) ever achieved this? This claim seems outrageous to me. Perhaps in a small confined demo but not a full game?

 

2. This brings me onto something else, sure you can have entirely 8K texture maps in a demo but in a full AAA game? That's not happening is it? AAA games these days have over 1000 texture maps. You're talking 1TB+ downloads here or 10+ disc games, that's not happening.

 

3. I swear, this 'Artists no longer have to worry about drawcalls/limitations' comes about every generation. 

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39 minutes ago, Capwn said:

1. Something I'm kinda confused about is the claim that there is no longer need for lightmaps. ALL lighting can be real-time lights, is this new? Has any other AAA typical action game (GodOfWar/Control?) ever achieved this? This claim seems outrageous to me. Perhaps in a small confined demo but not a full game?

 

Apparently Kingdom Come: Deliverance on PC does full realtime Global Illumination if you crank it's settings up to high, that's a Skyrim style game - but it's a real performance hog.

 

39 minutes ago, Capwn said:

2. This brings me onto something else, sure you can have entirely 8K texture maps in a demo but in a full AAA game? That's not happening is it? AAA games these days have over 1000 texture maps. You're talking 1TB+ downloads here or 10+ disc games, that's not happening.

 

Someone speculated this demo alone could be 100GB.

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42 minutes ago, Capwn said:

3. I swear, this 'Artists no longer have to worry about drawcalls/limitations' comes about every generation. 

I'm genuinely curious (ie not trying to be a dick), but can you point to those same claims being made in the run-ups to prior generations?

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On 14/05/2020 at 15:49, Liamness said:

Some interesting details here about how well or otherwise the demo runs on current PC hardware:

 

https://wccftech.com/unreal-engine-5-demo-is-rendering-at-1440p-most-of-the-time-on-ps5-rtx-2070-super-could-run-it-at-pretty-good-performance/

 

Bit of a no brainer that it does run in some form on PCs, because otherwise how would they have made the thing. But you do need an high end graphics card (one that likely costs as much as the new consoles will, on its own) and a pretty bleeding edge SSD (probably one of the ones that comes with its own chunky heatsink). Even then it sounds like the SSD in the PS5 is some way ahead of anything you can actually buy and put in a PC today. Not sure if this is because of the SSD itself, or the architecture around it (e.g. the proprietary compression tech).

 

Did you actually read the article you linked?

 

Because the article you linked said that a PC with a 2070 Super would easily run the demo better than the PS5 - and the 2070 Super will be a last generation graphics card by the time the new consoles launch.

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7 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

Did you actually read the article you linked?

 

Because the article you linked said that a PC with a 2070 Super would easily run the demo better than the PS5 - and the 2070 Super will be a last generation graphics card by the time the new consoles launch.

 

To be fair, a 2070 Super would very likely cost you more than either of the impending consoles.

 

As for the SSD, I can't wait to see exactly what the tech solution is in both the new machines. I await DF doing something about it and me not understanding much but being excited...

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45 minutes ago, Thor said:

I'm genuinely curious (ie not trying to be a dick), but can you point to those same claims being made in the run-ups to prior generations?

 

No it's a fair question and I can't pin point any specifics. My most recent memory of similar was during the development of Rage (the first one) with it's Megatextures tech that in some interviews (again that I can' specifically pinpoint) it would result in unlimited textures. 

 

I always see Unreal demos as a glimpse of the future, I think they are a good indication of where the incoming generation will be towards the END of it's life cycle or even the NEXT generation. For example this is from he Unreal 3 tech demo in 2011. I don't think we really saw that level of quality for another 5 or so years afterwards.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, JoeK said:

 

To be fair, a 2070 Super would very likely cost you more than either of the impending consoles.

 

As for the SSD, I can't wait to see exactly what the tech solution is in both the new machines. I await DF doing something about it and me not understanding much but being excited...

 

Right now? Sure.

 

But there's a whole new generation of cards coming in August.

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Yeah you might have a point re: the price coming down once the new cards are out (August? That would be nice. Could easily be a lot later though) but I'm not sure the "DID yoU actuALly ReAd thE aRtiCLE?" stuff was warranted.

 

It also doesn't say a PC would "easily run the demo better". Epic's CTO says it would run with "pretty good performance". This isn't a dig at PCs, I have a preference for PCs generally. Can we try to have a discussion about the new console's capabilities without it getting all tribal and wierd please.

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2 hours ago, Capwn said:

2. This brings me onto something else, sure you can have entirely 8K texture maps in a demo but in a full AAA game? That's not happening is it? AAA games these days have over 1000 texture maps. You're talking 1TB+ downloads here or 10+ disc games, that's not happening.

I'm assuming you wouldn't have most game assets be of such quality, they just did that for demonstration purposes to show that it could be done; would seem more relevant to the film/TV stuff than games.

 

In theory I suppose relative game size could shrink a bit, as you're only including the LOD0 model rather than also having two or three progressively lower fidelity versions. Not that I'm holding my breath.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Capwn said:

2. This brings me onto something else, sure you can have entirely 8K texture maps in a demo but in a full AAA game? That's not happening is it? AAA games these days have over 1000 texture maps. You're talking 1TB+ downloads here or 10+ disc games, that's not happening.

 

You can get an 8K texture down to well under 80Mb, no? A thousand of those would be 80GB. My understanding is much of the data on current games is the same textures at different sizes for LoD, much of which is then repeated dozens of times to try and reduce seek times on mechanical drives. This (in theory) all vanishes when you're able to stream those textures in almost instantaneously. With any luck we'll have games with much higher quality and more varied textures but with roughly the same install size.  

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It’s all about materials now not textures.... or rather a better balance between the two.

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The article strongly suggests that the way this laptop ran the demo was by playing a video of it, so I'm not sure how illustrative it is.

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..."He's correct, it was. But that wasn't what the engineer was referencing when he was discussing the actual performance of Unreal Engine 5 on his personal machine. That was seemingly in response to a question during the long, wider piece about the impressive UE5 technology. "

 

tbf, though, much like UE4, UE5 is built to scale across...well....everything!

 

 

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1 hour ago, 5R7 said:

 

tbf, though, much like UE4, UE5 is built to scale across...well....everything!

 

 


Which is great, because it’s then up to the devs to make something great out of it. The really good ones should be able to push the bugger into doing tremendous things indeed!

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35 minutes ago, JoeK said:


Which is great, because it’s then up to the devs to make something great out of it. The really good ones should be able to push the bugger into doing tremendous things indeed!

considering what has been done wiht UE4...yeh lol

 

 

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2 hours ago, 5R7 said:

considering what has been done wiht UE4...yeh lol

 

 


What can I say? I’m a dreamer!

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23 hours ago, 5R7 said:

tbf, though, much like UE4, UE5 is built to scale across...well....everything!

 

 

 

I'd say that claim by Epic has an awful lot of provisos and small print attached to it. UE5 runs on current gen, Next Gen and mobile phones. How are Nanite and Lumen, which leverage the technical advances only available in Next Gen consoles and equivalent PCs actually going to work in practice on current gen consoles and mobile phones?

 

It's more likely to be the equivalent of porting a PS4 game to the PS3, a deep, deep downgrade with no real-time GI or massively detailed assets being streamed in all the time, so technically legally true, but the average person might question its usefulness in practice.

 

 

 

It's basically claiming to save developers the hassle of doing the downgrading as UE takes care of it all for you magically apparently.

 

Somebody might have finally actually invented an actual port to button. :)

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On 22/05/2020 at 00:13, Liamness said:

Provocative headline alert:

 

Unreal Engine 5 demo runs better on laptops than on the PS5

 

The laptop in question would have cost many times what the PS5 will, of course. But if a 970 Evo (a high end part, but hardly bleeding edge) wasn't a limting factor on the demo, it can't really been stretching the capabilities of the PS5's SSD.

Wow, it's almost as if peak transfer rate numbers mean fuck all in the grand scheme of things. :sherlock:

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