Jump to content
IGNORED

Poll: Was "Final Fantasy VII Remake" a bad title for the game? [spoilers]


Qazimod
 Share

Which statement reflects your feelings about the naming and general promotion of Final Fantasy VII Remake?  

74 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Spoiler warning: this thread is intended for people who have knowledge or experience of the gameplay and story of Final Fantasy VII Remake. People who have played the game may say things that are spoilery.

 

I've been reading the central thread and also the post-completion spoiler discussion thread, and this question has been hinted at in certain posts, but I don't think there's ever been a central thread for getting a general forum-wide feel about what people think of the "Remake" title now that they've played the game. It essentially involves two things: what people thought the game might be, and what the game actually was. I personally enjoyed my experience with FFVII Remake, but the story doesn't always go to the same places as the originals (or if it does, it might not always get there via the same route) and your experience with classic FFVII gameplay will only get you so far in Remake, as you essentially have to re-learn the essence of combat, party commands, materia, upgrades, and so on.

 

On the other hand, I was thinking about the third poll option to my main question - could Square have risked a backlash if this was pitched as a completely new experience within the FFVII universe (maybe something more in line with the other games in the Compilation of FFVII) and people played it and got mad because they were just rehashing the story, location and characters of the 1997 game? Alternatively: I got burned with Dirge of Cerberus (thankfully I picked it up cheap and it was just a curiosity purchase after the fact) and so if this was promoted as a brand new experience I might have lost interest - because it's hard to tell what you'll get with Square's track record of FF spin-offs. :) 

 

I've also added a question to gauge how many people responding have actually played the game, as that might matter to certain forumites!

 

Anyway, I'm sorry for yet another FFVII Remake thread, but I kind of wanted a central poll and discussion for this particular point of contention. Personally, I would have been fine with the same gameplay and story with updated models and writing/direction that's more sensitive to today's world (an aside: I thought Remake's handling of the cross-dressing / Honeybee Inn was superb), but equally I enjoyed what we ended up with... but I would be totally fine if it was called something else too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it’s fine. I’m only half way through but I’ve heard about the ending. I don’t mind at all. FF is at its best when I have no idea what’s about to happen and it’s insane. Just remaking the original sounds incredibly boring, though not as boring as people who want the maps and gameplay to be exactly the same as well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Peb Kacharach said:


This is such a crazy argument - remakes of classic games are ‘boring’ - so what’s with all the successful and critically-praised remakes this gen? 
I don’t think anyone is saying the maps and gameplay should’ve been exactly the same. 

 

The fans who wanted a remake of FFVII are literally the enemies and end boss in a game marketed and titled as a FFVII remake. And people are defending it and even saying they prefer it, as if the original was some stinker.

 

But the original was sort of a stinker. Or at least, it is if you look at it again now. The script is laughable, character motivations go all over the place, all of the characters have big ham hands! What Final Fantasy VII had was character in spades, beautiful art design, a satisfying battle/levelling system and individual moments that basically defined storytelling in gaming for me and many others. 

 

So then they go to remake it. From the ground up. And they keep the story exactly the same and it's all turn based and they update the graphics and it's what..? It's good! It's the wonderful nostalgia-fest we still get with Remake, but it fixes the original script where needed and tells you not to attack when its tail is up and the core who wanted a remake are happy. Except, Cloud's shoes look a bit different. And in fact, Wall Mart doesn't look quite how it should. And yeah they've given everyone voices but is that how Aerith really sounds? And in my FFVII she was called Aeries. So what you end up with is a game that's exactly the same mechanically as a game you love, but that can't ever be quite as good because it's remaking a lot of what was imagined in your head due to you being younger and game being sparser and PS1 hardware not being up to task.  

 

So instead, they did something massively different. And massively brave. And that allows these remakes to be big and bold and potentially have more of those incredible, surprising moments that we got with the original FF7. I'd read about the controversy regarding the ending, so when that moment happened with Barrett in the Shinra tower my whole body went cold. "They've done it... holy shit." Now of course, they hadn't done it, but what they had done was given me the feeling that they could. Which I'd have never gotten with a straight up remake. They were remaking how I felt when I played FF7. Which was amazing and which has the potential to carry on with the next however many of these games there'll be over however many years. 

 

I was interested in Remake when it was announced, FF7 is one of my favourite games of all time, and to see it in HD with an orchestra recorded soundtrack would be great. And then I played it and saw that they'd subtly updated the music so that different themes took on different meanings, and they'd added weird new sections, not all of which worked but all of which surprised and changed and added to things I'd been thinking about for 20 odd years.

 

FF7 was never a perfect video game and was all the better for it. It was weird and different and exciting and unlike anything I'd ever played before. It plodded along in places and soared in others, the story was groundbreaking at times and straight up weird and nonsensical at others. All of which you can say about Remake. So for me, the name is perfect, even if the game isn't. Because it shouldn't be. Because perfect is boring and Final Fantasy 7 was never boring. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Peb Kacharach said:


This is such a crazy argument - remakes of classic games are ‘boring’ - so what’s with all the successful and critically-praised remakes this gen? 
I don’t think anyone is saying the maps and gameplay should’ve been exactly the same. 

 

The fans who wanted a remake of FFVII are literally the enemies and end boss in a game marketed and titled as a FFVII remake. And people are defending it and even saying they prefer it, as if the original was some stinker.


I think it’s just aged really badly, and isn’t really possible on modern hardware in any remake form. The mass market isn’t going to accept the level of abstraction which it did when FFVII was released, which makes remaking FFVII pretty much impossible. On top of that, for me personally it’s not really like other remakes. Often a remake is an opportunity to experience something I’ve not played for years again, to relive that experience. There’s never been a year of my life since 1997 when I’ve not played FFVII at all. I’ve owned 20 copies of it and completed it 100% at least ten times. I’d play a remake that was closer to the original but it would mean no more to me than the switch or PSP versions. 
 

This is a modern game with FFVII stuff in it. Hit or miss, that’s just more interesting to me. It’s why regardless of their quality I think more about Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core than the differences between ports. I’d rather have something shite and new than the same thing again, assuming that they weren’t trying to make it crap. But I’m also a crazy person who thought Witcher 3 and The Last of Us were dull but loved FFXV so much I’d rate it as one of my top three games this generation, in its original form from launch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The word 'remake' covers quite a wide range of possibilities. When films are remade we don't expect them to be the same (I haven't seen it, but wasn't the Psycho remake basically a shot-for-shot reconstruction, and considered completely pointless?). We expect a different director to provide a re-imagining.

 

Similar with games, except technological developments play a bigger role. Sometimes a straight update works (Shadow of the Collosus), perhaps in part because the original hardware struggled to do it justice. Sometimes it's good when certain things are changed around (Resident Evil 2), because it's more faithful to retain the potential for the unexpected than recreate any one specific event. Sometimes a bigger overhaul and much more detail can work well (Final Fantasy VII). They're all remakes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I imagine it could easily have been a Prince of Persia scenario, where the game has the same name as previous games*, but you know it's a different experience. Same name, different game. I mean thematically, it's the same game, with the same name. It occupies the same game-space. But does things differently with the narrative, because it can try other forms of ludology.

 

Calling it "Final Fantasy VII" would have been fine. In my opinion. Adding "Remake" lowers expectations to "same game, prettier graphics".

 

see also: Grid, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil 2, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Peb Kacharach said:

 

It would be a stretch to suggest the bolded was their intention. It wasn't brave, it's having their cake and eating it. The main reason for the Whispers plotline is so Square aren't bound to reproduce the scale of the original game and therefore cannot fail by comparison. That was a business calculation. It gives them an out, and crowbars Sephiroth into Part 1, and gives them the option to end the 'Remake' project at part 1 if it's not financially viable. It also allows the writers to riff and self-indulge, potentially with a happier resolution and further installments if well-received. There could potentially be multiple FF games set in the FFVII universe after this story concludes.


That’s quite a lot of things you’ve just imagined are true though. You don’t like it and think that’s what happened, but that doesn’t make your imaginary scenario for why they did these things more real than someone else thinking it was designed to evoke the original feelings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Peb Kacharach said:

 

A director remaking another director's film shot-for-shot is a remake.

A director remaking another director's film in their own style is a remake.

A director "remaking" their own film, but the antagonist knows how events of the original film played out and hooded representations of the audience direct the actors to follow the original script... this is not a remake. It's a meta-sequel. Or... student comedy theatre.

 

And one of the reasons it is bad is that it's a device which could be used on any piece of fiction ever. There is nothing within the OG FFVII that explains the events of FFVIIR. There is nothing within FFVIIR that explains the events of FFVIIR...

The world doesn't need you to define the boundaries of remakes. The people actually making these things are experimenting with the concept in different ways, and don't need your stamp of approval.

 

I'm glad it was everything you didn't want. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After finishing the remake, I went and replayed the original (my actual OG ntsc copy, on a CRT and everything) up to the point that the remake ends.

 

The remake is superior in every single way. It’s all far more fleshed out, far more involving and far more fun. 
The Sephiroth battle - which is the only real change - gave pt. 1 of this remake series a real crescendo of an ending that was both totally epic and utterly welcome. One of the best remakes I’ve ever played up there with Resident Evil. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

After finishing the remake, I went and replayed the original (my actual OG ntsc copy, on a CRT and everything) up to the point that the remake ends.

 

The remake is superior in every single way. It’s all far more fleshed out, far more involving and far more fun. 
The Sephiroth battle - which is the only real change - gave pt. 1 of this remake series a real crescendo of an ending that was both totally epic and utterly welcome. One of the best remakes I’ve ever played up there with Resident Evil. 

spacer.png

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once I figured out what was going on (well it was my partner who figured it out first actually) I did think that a lot of people would be upset by having Remake in the title and that Adaptation might be a better title. However that would have let the cat out of the bag. I've wanted Square to be brave again for years, I just didn't expect them to do it with this title.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SeanR said:

Ok, how about...

 

Final Fantasy VII-2 Redux
 

?

 

For people who loved what Square did Remake is fine.

 

For true fans? Anything less than Final Fantasy 7:Fuck You doesn't even begin to describe the experience. It's the Last Jedi all over again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The funny thing is that people knew it would "only" be Midgar months in advance due to what was shown in footage and screenshots. Some kind of "Final Fantasy VII: Midgar" naming might have been fine if not for the fact that it doesn't generate as much hype... ;) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is very similar to the Dragon Age 2 debate years back where if the game had literally not been called 2 (and had instead been called Dragon Age:Kirkwall and allowed time for the actual dungeons and caverns to be finished) people would have been fine. Expectations managed.

 

I love, LOVE that Square has done a Metal Solid 2 here but I wonder just how many sales they lost on 3 because of that. And it's taken 19 years for another high profile developer to pull the rug out like that again and risk alienating true fans. There's a reason no one else did that for two decades. It's a big deal to a lot of people.

 

Someone in another thread was saying "but hey, what if they remade Empire Strikes Back and changed it up, that wouldn't be on surely." And you know what? My view? Why not? I almost got mad at there being a retelling of Robocop that wasn't the same as the original but that's the point isn't it. Same with new Dr Who. Same with Total Recall. I think it's totally fine for someone to have another crack at an existing story and if it isn't as good then it's not usually a problem as long as the original isn't inaccessible. Disney is desperate to remake Labyrinth. In my eyes there isn't any point without David Bowie and Jim Henson but if they want to try have at it. Make it their own thing.

 

I vaguely remember some old people (like my grandfather) being incredibly mad when we saw Little Shop of Horrors back in the day as it was quite different to the original he'd seen in 1960's. And I totally get why someone buying a remake will consider it a promise broken when they get this (especially when one of the trailers specifically talk about making a promise.)

 

I think Remake is fine but would understand if people were upset had they called it a remaster.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Peb Kacharach said:

If the original game had followed this plot and end point, using the 1997 graphics and gameplay, the series would have died a death in the West and no-one would care about FFVII in the first place.

 

Not sure what the point is here in that the changes only make sense in respect to there being an original to deviate from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Peb Kacharach said:

Did you miss the people in this thread saying it's superior and could replace the original?

 

It's astonishing that I have to explain this but:

 

I was taking the piss. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

For people who loved what Square did Remake is fine.

 

For true fans? Anything less than Final Fantasy 7:Fuck You doesn't even begin to describe the experience. It's the Last Jedi all over again.

 

I remember you saying this sort of stuff in the Star Wars thread around when TLJ came out. "loved the movie, but if you're a true fan it's going to drive you mad."

 

Liking The Last Jedi or Remake doesn't take away any sort of True Fan status. I love remake and The Last Jedi because of how much of a massive fan of the original source material I am. I just happen to also like media that takes risks with things I love rather than just wanting to experience watered down versions of the same things repeatedly. 

 

If you want a true fan's reaction to Final Fantasy 7 remake look at Maximillian Dood's playthrough of Remake. The guy lives and breathes Final Fantasy 7 and he loves Remake precisely because it dares to be different. Being a whiny little baby that can't take any other reading of art except the exact one that's in their head doesn't make you more of a fan than anyone else. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, BitterToad said:

 

I remember you saying this sort of stuff in the Star Wars thread around when TLJ came out. "loved the movie, but if you're a true fan it's going to drive you mad."

 

Liking The Last Jedi or Remake doesn't take away any sort of True Fan status. I love remake and The Last Jedi because of how much of a massive fan of the original source material I am. I just happen to also like media that takes risks with things I love rather than just wanting to experience watered down versions of the same things repeatedly. 

 

If you want a true fan's reaction to Final Fantasy 7 remake look at Maximillian Dood's playthrough of Remake. The guy lives and breathes Final Fantasy 7 and he loves Remake precisely because it dares to be different. Being a whiny little baby that can't take any other reading of art except the exact one that's in their head doesn't make you more of a fan than anyone else. 

 

 


49A7FBF6-D48C-483E-9CB8-CC30D83988F5.gif.7fda5bfaea6135f8847f19576002b55f.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, BitterToad said:

 

I remember you saying this sort of stuff in the Star Wars thread around when TLJ came out. "loved the movie, but if you're a true fan it's going to drive you mad."

 

Liking The Last Jedi or Remake doesn't take away any sort of True Fan status. I love remake and The Last Jedi because of how much of a massive fan of the original source material I am. I just happen to also like media that takes risks with things I love rather than just wanting to experience watered down versions of the same things repeatedly. 

 

If you want a true fan's reaction to Final Fantasy 7 remake look at Maximillian Dood's playthrough of Remake. The guy lives and breathes Final Fantasy 7 and he loves Remake precisely because it dares to be different. Being a whiny little baby that can't take any other reading of art except the exact one that's in their head doesn't make you more of a fan than anyone else. 

 

 

 

It's weird but there's been sequels that I've loved that the major fan base seems to hate. And there does seem to be this gatekeeper issue which pushes people away (at least it pushes me away.) So I've enjoyed the Last Jedi, I really liked Answer the Call, I loved Final Fantasy Remake. I found the new Total Recall to be bland. I skipped the new Robocop. But there seems to be this new attitude that if you like an addition to a franchise that does something different regardless of whether you've succeeded or failed then it's somewhat disrespectful and by liking it you aren't a true fan.

 

And this seems to be a new thing. I remember disappointment with The Crystal Skull and to a lesser extent Young Indiana Jones. I don't remember it "ruining childhoods" or "being disrespectful." (Although I remember some rumbles about The Phantom Menace.)

 

I mean we've reached the point where creators are being called self indulgent for putting a different spin on things.

 

I do get the naysayers. They looked to this for comfort, or more likely to recapture the EXACT feeling they had the first time they played it. They wanted a high def remaster of twenty years ago. That's an impossible goal.

 

So I've moved to letting the superfans pull it apart. Just like they did other new takes that I've liked.

 

I think this might be because of my age. I'm approaching 50 now, back in my youth nostalgia wasn't what it is now. Media was fleeting, reprints and re-runs outside of works with massive mass appeal just didn't happen. And it was kind of accepted that new takes would be new takes. 

 

I really loved this game. I'm playing through this for the second time. I'm watching my partner playing this so I'm seeing some of this for the third time. And I've started looking for the flaws the naysayers are throwing at it and I'm just not seeing it for the most part. I'm still at the excitement level that Maximillian is at. I guess if I'm handing in my Final Fantasy 7 fan card I could swap it over for a Remake fan card I guess.

 

10 hours ago, Peb Kacharach said:

 

Exactly. So it isn't a remake.

 

Did you miss the people in this thread saying it's superior and could replace the original?

 

I understand half a dozen posters here really love the the game and don't take too kindly to criticism. Elsewhere on the internet, plenty of people have echoed my response and that debate is being had without any bad feeling or controversy.

 

My personal view? I think it's is the better game. I think it's an astonishing remake with a post modern twist that I can understand some not liking. Replacing the original? Maybe. It had loads of callback that would be missed by anyone who hadn't played the original a couple of times.

 

My partner loves it despite going in cold. And yes, she's since tried the original and bounced off it. Where you and I see a stone cold classic that hasn't dated a bit through her eyes it has...well issues. (For a start "why do people keep merging into the main character? And coming out of his pocket for conversations?" or "why are the player models so inconsistent?")

 

As I said earlier, I'm not sure I can judge this as a fan. I first played this in my mid 20's. I played it twice in the first year and played it once a year for the next four years. ut I don't think people have been unkind with their debate here. In the end you like what you like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Peb Kacharach said:

 

Exactly. So it isn't a remake.

 

Did you miss the people in this thread saying it's superior and could replace the original?

 

I understand half a dozen posters here really love the the game and don't take too kindly to criticism. Elsewhere on the internet, plenty of people have echoed my response and that debate is being had without any bad feeling or controversy.


:lol:

 

Did you know that in other places on the internet everyone agrees with what I’m saying and they can all just agree that I’m right nicely without rubbish people not agreeing.

 

Here’s an idea, if there’s lots of places where people want to complain about the name of a game and agree that the people who made it are very bad people, why not go post all this boring shite there? You could have the echo chamber free from criticism of your ideas that you’re clearly desperate for, and we could all stop having to read your posts. It’s win win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getting back to the main topic about the title (sorry, I kind of drew things back to advocating for the game and there are two other threads for that) I was listening to Triple Click today and they were talking about how Remake was totally fine as a title.

 

However...one of them did mention one of her friends who'd never played Final Fantasy before had bought the game because he wanted to experience the whole story. Paraphrasing here. "I can't wait to get up to the bit you tweeted about recently."

 

"Um....for remake you'll have to wait ten years IF they decide to retell that."

 

Her friend had bought it completely on the assumption that it was a remake of the entire 1997 game as it stated on the front of the box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It doesn’t state that on the box though. If I go and buy a Vauxhall Corsa I can’t go “In my mind Corsa means boat” and then have a strop because it doesn’t float. Remake doesn’t mean anything specific, there’s no dictionary definition that publishers are legally obliged to conform to. If people spend £60 on something without bothering to check what it is then that’s on them. 
 

Why don’t we have this same argument every tine that a series is rebooted with the same name? Oh I was very angry that Tom Raider 2013 didn’t have any of the levels from Tomb Raider. False advertising! Oh wait no the adverts showed the product that was for sale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.