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“SPOILER THREAD” - The Last Of Us Part 2

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1 hour ago, Majora said:

 

No-one is out to kill Ellie. She puts herself into positions where people will try to kill her though.

 

I don't have a problem with the story giving Ellie a moment where she spares Abby but I don't think you can take that moment and say it means she stops short of becoming Joel. Did she not already become Joel when she slowly tortured Abby's black friend (can't remember her name, sorry) at the hospital in order to extract information before killing her? Is that not exactly something Joel would do?  A sole moment of redemption at the end doesn't mean she did not previously become Joel. 

 

First of all, there are plenty out there trying to kill Ellie because they are hostile. A group is literally camped out of Jackson and plans an attack on it in order to get to Joel. True, she ventures into their areas while the game goes on, but its not like they are giving her a choice. This is a game and when you reach an area the enemies are out to get you and you need to kill them, this world is built like this and most games are built like this. It makes sense for her to be visibly shaken when she commits some of those kills on important characters because, as in all games and movies, they are more important than random goons.

 

In the same way that Joel really becomes who he is when he kills all those fireflies, Ellie chooses not to go through that final act of vengeance that will make her like him. She will not take the final step into oblivion. And she doesn't.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Thor said:

The difference, and i think this has been brought up already, is I don't think Joel had that much of a problem being "that guy" (some will get that reference ;)). Whereas Ellie hesitated, and was visibly shaken from the ordeal. Ellie is so much like Joel in so many ways, but she has her limits where Joel clearly did not. 

Yeah, this is more what I was getting at.

 

Murder is commonplace in The Last of Us's world – remember that Dina killed her first human when she was 10 – and throughout most of Ellie's journey she has a veneer of justification for her actions: the WLF attack her first, the Seraphite's attack her first, Nora was already dead from infection, etc. Her confrontation with Owen and Mel goes totally wrong and is, seemingly, a turning point: everyone from Jackson agrees to go home after this, until Abby shows up at the theatre. (I'm not sure whether Ellie would ultimately have been able to accept this. I suspect she might have been able to, given she'd still have Jesse and a non-twisted Tommy around, but perhaps not.)

 

I'd say that Abby is more of a 'successor' to Joel. She is similarly ruthless – best evidenced by her treatment of Joel himself, which doesn't fix anything but causes her no remorse – and ultimately ends up on a similar redemption arc, albeit with Yara and Lev rather than Ellie.

 

 

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Did anyone post this yet? I really like this fella usually.
 

 

I disagree with a lot of this though. 

 

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Did the Rat King (big hospital beast boss) just now. I died so many times on my first play, but nailed him first time this run. It's a thrilling, brilliantly done encounter.

 

Also, caught a line of dialogue just now while Abby and Yara are looking for Lev. Yara tells Abby she doesn't know how to thank her, Abby says, 'you don't have to,. I did it for me.' Simple, brutal honesty.

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On 25/06/2020 at 20:01, teddymeow said:

Abby is so built. Where does she find all the necessary protein?


There are plenty of texts to find that allude to people getting more supplies than others/preferential treatment.

 

It would follow that your frontline soldiers would be given more food than those with less physically demanding jobs, too.

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Finished this earlier and can't stop thinking about it. Ferine's post earlier summed up my exact feelings about the ending so I won't repeat it, but I loved this game. And the epilogue made the game, for me. I loved all the characters and left this experience completely heart-broken for Ellie.

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Absolutely stunning scene at the end where, because she just couldn't let things lie, Ellie returns to her home, abandoned by the family she could have had. She also realises that, as she's now lost two fingers, she can't play the Pearl Jam song that she used to remember Joel. The look on her face then says it all.

 

Also - when she springs the slaves, doesn't one of them mention that Abby was strung up after being bitten? Does this mean that Abby is also immune?

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7 minutes ago, mansizerooster said:

oesn't one of them mention that Abby was strung up after being bitten? Does this mean that Abby is also immune?

That's a new one, I reckon you're mistaken, but I'll be keeping an ear out for it later today or tomorrow depending on when I finished this NG+ run.

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Nah, she was strung up after trying to escape. 

 

The escaping slaves noticed that Ellie had been bitten (by the clicker hanging from the tree). That clicker hanging from a tree scene was great. The design and look and voice of that bigger cargo shorts Snakeboi was so fantastic. Dude had asshole miniboss written all over him :lol: 

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I'd love some DLC set in Jackson where we see Joel on routes with Tommy. Maybe fill out their backstory, why they fell out etc.

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3 minutes ago, teddymeow said:

I'd love some DLC set in Jackson where we see Joel on routes with Tommy. Maybe fill out their backstory, why they fell out etc.

I just want a game spent shooting zombies with Tommy & Ellie. 

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I thought I didn't need a TLoU: Part 2 but I'm glad we got it. I don't need TLoU: Part 3 and I hope ND does a new IP next, but I would still be up for it in the future. Or even a smaller TLL type game about Abby and Lev's search for the Fireflies.

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What was the point of the sniper training section with Tommy? I was expecting a sniper level at some point. Or was it to show that Tommy has a sniper rifle so you put 2+2 together later on?

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29 minutes ago, AI1 said:

Or was it to show that Tommy has a sniper rifle so you put 2+2 together later on?

That. :)

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11 hours ago, Talk Show Host said:

This is really a great insight to the game and how the creator and actors see it.

 

 

 

Just finished watching this and it was great!!

 

The answer about the post-game title screen was pretty "whoah!!"

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The last of us three should be about Lev. 

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That last shot is so good. In fact, the whole ending is great. Ellie going after Abby because she feels guilty about being at peace with Dinah and JJ, leaving them behind in the process. The first time we see a flashback to Joel it's his smashed in face, the second time it's him playing the guitar. By sparing Abby she does not become Joel. She lost Dinah and JJ (for now) but leaving the guitar behind signals that she's also broken free of Joel, the man who robbed her of her agency due to selfish love.

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She’s not breaking free of Joel though. She already forgave him. She’s breaking free of blind grief and rage as a motivator. She’s choosing to recognise his capacity for growth and forgiveness and wanting to emulate that, allowing it to override her selfish desire for revenge. The guitar symbolises Joel’s warmer, vulnerable human side and his growth since his horrible act of selfish love broke their relationship. That she can’t play it anymore and leaves it behind is a metaphor for her grief transforming from anger and hatred to acceptance and healing, as it eventually does.

 

”If I ever were to lose you
I'd surely lose myself”. 

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I'm going to sit down with a cup of tea later to read this thread in full as I finished the game in the wee small hours this morning, but before I do, a couple of questions (spoiler tagged anyway, despite this being the spoiler thread):

 

Spoiler

 

- Without wanting to seem insensitive, were both Lev and Abby transgender? Abby because of her increasingly masculine appearance as the game went on, certainly compared with how she looks in the flashback sequences as a younger woman. And Lev because his name was originally Lily, right, but then he shaved her head 'Like the men' and started identifying as a boy when he was chosen to be one of the elder's wives? I noticed that none of the characters ever use the female pronoun to refer to him, though, so I'm not sure if that's right, but that could just be other characters being sensitive to his wish to be seen as a boy.

 

- The rumour about the Fireflies and the radio frequency that Abby tunes into towards the end - was this all rubbish? Just a ruse set up by the Rattlers to lure in more people to enslave? The person on the end of the radio tells Abby to make for the domed building up the coast, and this is the same place where the Rattlers have their headquarters, where Abby and the others are imprisoned, and also, during the radio conversation, Abby tells the 'Firefly' their exact location and is then immediately ambushed by the Rattlers who must have been waiting for her to come out, suggesting that the Rattler who she spoke to radioed the Rattlers on patrol, who then knew precisely where she was.

 

- Is it ever made clear what the Rattlers were keeping people prisoner for, apart from just general slave stuff?

 

 

Also, a couple of Easter eggy/cool things I noticed:

 

- In the second half, or third, of the game, when you're playing as Abby, she wakes up in the stadium with a copy of City of Thieves by David Benioff lying across her chest, having fallen asleep reading it. If you weren't aware, this is an actual novel (Benioff, as well as being a novelist, was also one of the co-writers of Game of Thrones), and one that the writers of TLOU have said in interview was a big influence. I've not read it, but it's about two boys trying to survive in besieged Leningrad during WWII.

 

- There's a bit where Ellie swims up behind and kills a Wolf who's playing Hotline Miami on a Vita wearing headphones. I love that game and got the platinum for it (on the Vita, no less!) so I recognised the music straightaway and cracked a bit smile. After the wolf is dead, you can zoom in on the Vita on the floor and see what looks like the title screen, or one of the opening levels from the game. There's quite a few references to Jam and Daxter throughout, but obviously Hotline isn't by NaughtyDog, so it was a surprise to see it there. They must have had a word with the developers ^_^

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@Jamie John

 

 

Abby is not transgender. She is just built. I guess being a soldier in the WLF she needs to maintain a certain level od fitness and she's been building herself in order to take her revenge against Joel. Lev is transitioning. The Scars continually deadname him as they do not accept his choice.

 

I think the Firefly outpost and the radio conversation was legitimate. The post game title screen shows the boat on a beach near Catalina Island which is where the Firefly said they were. Possible that ND could use this as a jumping off point for the third game. Abby looking for Ellie to finally produce the cure?

The Rattlers were just arseholes. Using people for slave labour or worse.

 

Apparently there's a porn video on a shelf in Eugene's library hideout based around Crash Bandicoot (Smash Brandi's Cooch) and I spotted a Nathan Drake Uncharted 2 costume in one of the shops. When you aim at it, Ellie says "not a fan". :lol:

 

Regarding the Vita, Neil Druckmann has said the only thing they weren't allowed to do was show the screen getting damaged!! Sony said no way can you show that!!

 

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7 minutes ago, teddymeow said:

@Jamie John

 

 

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Abby is not transgender. She is just built. I guess being a soldier in the WLF she needs to maintain a certain level od fitness and she's been building herself in order to take her revenge against Joel. Lev is transitioning. The Scars continually deadname him as they do not accept his choice.

 


 

I think the Firefly outpost and the radio conversation was legitimate. The post game title screen shows the boat on a beach near Catalina Island which is where the Firefly said they were. Possible that ND could use this as a jumping off point for the third game. Abby looking for Ellie to finally produce the cure?

 

The Rattlers were just arseholes. Using people for slave labour or worse.

 

 

 

Spoiler

Again, without wanting to sound insensitive (or perverted, for that matter), I thought Abby's breasts in the present were a lot smaller relative to when she was younger and going out with Owen. In the sex scene with Owen, for example, she takes her top off and is almost entirely flat-chested, to the point where she looked like she'd undergone a breast reduction, or something similar. I admit to not being educated on the matter, but even if a woman works out as much as she does, I didn't think it could have an effect to this extent.

 

But anyway, no doubt you're right, not least becauseI doubt gender-reassignment surgery would be a huge priority in a post-apocalyptic world. I think I'd just seen a few headlines about how the game foregrounds trans characters, but hadn't read the actual articles for fear of spoilers, so I then assumed, when I started the game, that Abby was one of these characters, but it must have just been Lev who was being referred to.

 

I didn't realise that bit about the island on the title screen after you complete the game, though. It was two in the morning by that point and I think I was just too emotionally drained upon finishing it to notice. I was convinced that the fact that they get caught immediately upon leaving the house with the radio meant that it was a trap, but then maybe the Rattlers just saw them go in and waited for them to come out.

 

Whatever the case, I don't know if I want there to be a third game. I think I prefer the ambiguity, and the ending to this was so great as it was that I wouldn't want it to be spoiled.

 

Then again, I thought the same about the first game...

 

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Other questions:

 

Spoiler

- What bits of the game were spoiled by those hackers a few weeks ago? Joel's death, or more?

 

- The bit in the very first trailer that Sony revealed at E3 years ago - where it transitions from Ellie kissing Dinah on the dancefloor to her cutting that guy's throat, followed by a load of fighting in some dark woods, and then the noise of Infected at the end - that bit isn't actually in the game, is it (apart from the kissing Dinah bit)?

 

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This is the, now clearly labelled, spoiler thread. We don't need spoiler tags.

 

I think the whole game was spoiled by the leaks, though I went mostly "radio silent" on the game. I never watched the launch trailer even.

 

The fighting in the woods is the first time you discover the scars, that whole area is in the game.

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4 minutes ago, Thor said:

The fighting in the woods is the first time you discover the scars, that whole area is in the game.

 

I must be misremembering it, then - I thought it was a lot darker and that there were trucks to hide beneath, which I don't remember from that section of the game, but I need to go back and re-watch the trailer.

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It's the area where you first get pierced with an arrow and have to hold R1 to pull it out. I daresay there may have been some changes to the area between that trailer and what's in the game, but it's clearly that area of the game. 

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17 minutes ago, Jamie John said:

Other questions:

 

  Hide contents

- What bits of the game were spoiled by those hackers a few weeks ago? Joel's death, or more?

 

- The bit in the very first trailer that Sony revealed at E3 years ago - where it transitions from Ellie kissing Dinah on the dancefloor to her cutting that guy's throat, followed by a load of fighting in some dark woods, and then the noise of Infected at the end - that bit isn't actually in the game, is it (apart from the kissing Dinah bit)?

 

 

I saw the following leaks:

 

1. Abby kills Joel because he killed her father at the end of TLOU - lots of golf memes after that

2. You play as Abby in the second half of the game

3. The cut-scene at Santa Barbara with Abby and Lev looking for an address was said to be the end of the game

 

Looking back, there's loads that were said to be in the game which turned out to be bullshit: Dina dying, Abby killing Ellie, Jackson being attacked (Jesse dying then)

 

Joel's death was inevitable and I didn't feel the impact was diminished. I sat there watching the scene muttering "no, no, no" all the same. It still affected me. Naughty Dog achieved what it had set out to do.

 

 

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