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Hmmmnnnn.....

 

What have they done to Foundation?

 

It's a very nice looking sci-fi with a mystic bent, but it isn't Asimov's Foundation, such a shame.

 

Book spoilers perhaps follow:

 

I like what they are doing on the empire side of the story, that's been well realised, the idea of the clones and everything. Not anything Asimov ever wrote about, but it would fit within that universe. Albeit the android... The robot... Doesn't quite fit (and yes I have read Prelude to the Foundation). But, I could forgive that, if that was the only thing that jarred with me.

 

But what the fuck is going on on Terminus? And why is the tech of the empire now actually the tech of the Foundation 200 years from where the story is currently? Personal shields? Sigh... And then there's the Anachreons, running around with a bow, shooting practically everyone (until the next episode when nobody seemed to have died), blowing stuff up.

 

The thing I loved about the Foundation in the novels was the way they stumbled through their crises, using their smarts and their tenacity to be right. Because it was mathematically proven that they'd get through them. They knew that Seldon had worked it out, they trusted his maths, and when push came to shove it was rational thought that won the day. 

 

There wasn't any mystical finger waving, no special chosen ones, just the right social setting for the kind of person who'd be needed to appear and do the rational thing, as predicted by psychohistory. 

 

And don't get me started on the time vault! Whose stupid idea was that? 

 

Too much has been made up that doesn't fit with the books for this show ever to be anything more than disappointing. I'll keep watching, it's half decent sci-fi, but it's not what it could have been and is lesser for that. A shame.

 

 

 

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I’ve never read the book but this a huge flop for me. Beyond the first couple of episodes it’s been a rapid decline. It does look amazing but it’s so drawn out and tedious. Having watched Denis Villeneuve’s stunning Dune recently it really puts Foundation to shame. Both projects are an attempt to film something that is apparently difficult but only one has worked.

 

 

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I actually fell asleep half way through last night's episode. I find myself struggling to follow what's going on a bit. Probably not due to any great complexity, more likely the fact that it's just not holding my attention.

 

May give up on this, which is such a shame as I was really intrigued by the first couple of episodes. Might carry on for Lee Pace though. Been a big fan of his ever since seeing him in The Fall.

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I'm still enjoying it, but I do agree that it feels very different to the books as I remember them. Obviously it's doing its own thing with the source material, which is fine and probably wise, but I was hoping for something that leant harder on the sci-fi and less on the space opera stuff.

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Yeah I’m really enjoying it. I wasn’t expecting a direct adaptation of the books as that is impossible, but I’m enjoying it as it’s own thing.

 

On 25/10/2021 at 21:44, PK said:

This is superb stuff. I really hope it doesn't get cancelled prematurely, I could quite happily watch many more series of it.

 

Already renewed for season 2.

 

On 30/10/2021 at 00:02, Danster said:

Albeit the android... The robot... Doesn't quite fit (and yes I have read Prelude to the Foundation). But, I could forgive that, if that was the only thing that jarred with me.

 

But what the fuck is going on on Terminus? And why is the tech of the empire now actually the tech of the Foundation 200 years from where the story is currently? Personal shields? Sigh... And then there's the Anachreons, running around with a bow, shooting practically everyone (until the next episode when nobody seemed to have died), blowing stuff up.

 


I mean given the robot character is straight from that book I think it makes sense. Obviously she’s been somewhat repurposed but I think it fits.

 

As for the other changes, stuff in this episode made me wonder. Book spoilers:

 

Spoiler

The plan has been disrupted VERY early. Gaal was supposed to be in charge but she’s not there, and I wonder if that’s why things are going so badly on Terminus. Maybe if she’d been there we would have had the story of the books, with the crises being resolved easily, but with the plan thrown off so early we’re seeing a potential breaking point. Combined with the very early appearance of people with mental abilities, I wonder if what we’re seeing here is the second foundation having to intervene very early to try to get things back on track. 

 

On 30/10/2021 at 09:42, vezna said:

I’ve never read the book but this a huge flop for me. Beyond the first couple of episodes it’s been a rapid decline. It does look amazing but it’s so drawn out and tedious. Having watched Denis Villeneuve’s stunning Dune recently it really puts Foundation to shame. Both projects are an attempt to film something that is apparently difficult but only one has worked.

 

 


Foundation is far, far harder to adapt than Dune, which is a novel with a main character and overarching plot, rather than a set of short stories with different protagonists set years apart.

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25 minutes ago, Broker said:

Foundation is far, far harder to adapt than Dune, which is a novel with a main character and overarching plot, rather than a set of short stories with different protagonists set years apart.

 

The nature of the Foundation books mean that you can really do what you like with an adaptation. It arguably makes it easier than Dune, if the writing team can bring something interesting with character and overarching plot.  Doesn't sound like they have?

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16 minutes ago, Broker said:

Already renewed for season 2.

 

That's great news. Having not read the books I'm really enjoying it, although purely from the premise I can imagine they've had to simplify the Foundation side of things and make it a bit more action-based. I'm sure that's probably quite frustrating to book readers.

 

I'm really loving it though. It's gloriously OTT space opera with some cracking performances and spectacular visuals. I hope that when they get finished with this, the same production team gets the rights to adapt Revelation Space!

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6 hours ago, PK said:

That's great news. Having not read the books I'm really enjoying it, although purely from the premise I can imagine they've had to simplify the Foundation side of things and make it a bit more action-based. I'm sure that's probably quite frustrating to book readers.

It's not frustrating, just different. Imagine going to see an adaptation of Lord of the Rings, except the Nazgul get their hands ring in the first half hour or something leading to a completely different experience. It wouldn't be Lord of the Rings as Tolkien told it any more, but it could still make for a good story in its own right. It also means I have absolutely no idea where things are going now.

 

Personally it's been such a long time since I read the books that I can't remember many of the details anyway. The tone was obviously very different, and I remember there was very little description of the Empire from a time before it fell, at least in the early books. The first three books were all basically short story collections, spanning a huge amount of time, so it will be interesting to see if season 2 picks up from the end of the first or if we jump forward to a new set of characters.

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I'm still very much on board with this, and I thought this week's episode was particularly strong. Loved the parallel 'leaps of faith' stories, and the visuals during the space-set sequences push all of my buttons. Pace has such a compelling presence, I've liked him in everything I've seen. There's always a kind of thoughtful sadness working behind his eyes, even when he's being an absolute shit.

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Yeah, I loved this week's episode. I'm also even more intrigued about where things will go next season.

 

Spoiler

I think it's definitely gearing up for a big time jump. Gaal's off for a century long sleep, and obviously they can now keep Seldon and the emperors around for as long as they like. 

 

Book talk that's not a show spoiler any more:

 

Spoiler

Seldon's talk of the Second Foundation at Stars End jumped over a great big mystery from the books, showing again that this is definitely doing very much it's own thing.

 

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28 minutes ago, scottcr said:


 

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She disabled the heat shield

 

 

Ah, I completely missed that!  I did find her a bit of a frustrating character in that episode:

 

Spoiler


she seems to have completely abandoned her commitment to saving the human race in the subjective space of about an hour. Admittedly quite a traumatic hour, but still..

 

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on Gaal

 

Spoiler

yeah - she seems to have become very irrational in the space of two weeks.  I suppose the revelation that Seldon was responsible for Raych's death and given that his hologram doesn't seem to really care had made her mad.  Although, I find the 'I will blow myself up to spite you hologram' didn't entirely make sense to me.

 

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It's a Teela situation.

 

Spoiler

She's pissed off because Hari isn't telling her his plans and she feels like she's being lied to by omission or manipulated in a way she hadn't signed up for. In the subjective space of about a day she's found out that Hari's been killed, that her lover did it, that she's been blamed for it, that she's been in cryosleep for 35 years, that the Foundation she thought she was going to be a part of was in fact a decoy for the real Foundation she was never supposed to be involved with and that Hari still won't explain anything.

 

He says it's because telling her will skew the psychohistory and fuck up his plans, but she's been through so much in so short a time that she doesn't really care at the moment because it's all happening to her in ways she hadn't signed up for, so she's not thinking straight.

 

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2 hours ago, Scribblor said:

It's a Teela situation.

 

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She's pissed off because Hari isn't telling her his plans and she feels like she's being lied to by omission or manipulated in a way she hadn't signed up for. In the subjective space of about a day she's found out that Hari's been killed, that her lover did it, that she's been blamed for it, that she's been in cryosleep for 35 years, that the Foundation she thought she was going to be a part of was in fact a decoy for the real Foundation she was never supposed to be involved with and that Hari still won't explain anything.

 

He says it's because telling her will skew the psychohistory and fuck up his plans, but she's been through so much in so short a time that she doesn't really care at the moment because it's all happening to her in ways she hadn't signed up for, so she's not thinking straight.

 

 

true

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On 12/11/2021 at 09:34, Captain Novaforce said:

Watching episode 9. Honestly could they stop writing the female protagonists as idiots.

 

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The bit after the jump, why didn't she just shoot the huntress? It was soooooo obvious she was going to wake up and escape. 

 

The bits on Trantor continue to be great, as if they were written by someone else. 


It wouldn’t surprise me if they had different writers rooms, there is little overlap between the storylines.  Hopefully they realise this for next season.  I would like some standalone episodes next season. sometimes It already feels like that in some sequences that work really well and is focused on a concept. There is no particular need to interweave storylines within episodes when they dont overlap in theme. Mythic Quest does this fantastically with their flash back episodes and Foundation is ripe for that as well.
 

They did introduce the idea that the narrator is unreliable so maybe the Gaal (that’s her voice right?) speaking from the future doesn’t like Salvor and wants to make her sound stupid.  
 

Spoiler

I have to say it was pretty satisfying to see the huntress eat it so that we can move on and we will have Jared Harris taking the lead there, so there is hope for Terminus on both levels.

 

Spoiler

I think Dawn actor did well, made me care he empathise with Empire. Hoping Lee Pace spares him in the finale so that he can this slightly different Cleon next. Not sure if he will grow up worst being not able to trust anyone after this

 

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