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Football Thread 2020/2021


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5 hours ago, Superfamifreak said:

Never thought I'd be saying it this soon, but it feels pretty bloody good to be a Bolton Wanderers fan at the moment! Pretty much the entirety of the last decade can be written off as pure shite, but at least now we've hit form at the right time and hopefully momentum will take us into the top 3 - We play Forest Green at the weekend and a win would take us above them if they lose tonight and possibly into 3rd depending on the Tranmere results, although they have Colchester and Mansfield coming up, so highly unlikely.

 

Promotion this year, consolidate ourselves in League One next year and a promotion push the year after would do me.

 

How's Antony Sarcevic playing?  I was surprised he left us for Bolton but I think you've got a half decent squad there now. He was frustrating at times but I think 95% of our fan base absolutely loved him. Doyle up front was a coup too - he was lethal for Swindon last season. 

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1 hour ago, Art Vandelay said:

I think penalties as a whole need looking at. To be given pretty much a free goal for a small indiscretion in the box seems mad most of the time. A legitimate tactic is just to give the ball to a lad who can beat a man and get him in the box to draw a foul. 

 

I said this a couple of weeks back, pens are converted at around 80%, it's quite hard to create a chance in open play with 0.8xG so with football playing the stats now as it does we're seeing this deeply cynical exploitation of the percentages, and its really really dull. 

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I thought the whole point in VAR was correcting obvious mistakes like that.

 

I am surprised people are hand waving it away as what happens in football - it is very rare for there to be such a blatant example as that. Kane has literally given up possession of the ball in order to move into a defender making a normal attempt to block the cross.

 

Saying that the defender has been stupid here is just bizarre to me - should defenders no longer try to block crosses by sliding well away from an attacker?

 

No attack was impeded by the actions of the defender as the only way contact could be initiated was by Kane giving up possession so the ball was going off the pitch.

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30 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

I just think he's trying to do the chop back to cut inside the defender and completely messed it up. He then gets lucky because the defender has already committed. I mean none of us will never know so it's a bit of a moot point really. 

 

Yeah, watching it a few times and I do think this is what he was intending to do but just messed up controlling the ball. The rolling around clutching his shin was a bit embarrassing though.

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3 hours ago, rjpageuk said:

I thought the whole point in VAR was correcting obvious mistakes like that.

 

I am surprised people are hand waving it away as what happens in football - it is very rare for there to be such a blatant example as that. Kane has literally given up possession of the ball in order to move into a defender making a normal attempt to block the cross.

 

Saying that the defender has been stupid here is just bizarre to me - should defenders no longer try to block crosses by sliding well away from an attacker?

 

No attack was impeded by the actions of the defender as the only way contact could be initiated was by Kane giving up possession so the ball was going off the pitch.


So last weekend it didn’t matter if you missed the shot and then got clattered it was a pen but this week miss the cross and get clattered and not a pen?

 

Arsenal fans ehh...

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5 hours ago, neoELITE said:

 

How's Antony Sarcevic playing?  I was surprised he left us for Bolton but I think you've got a half decent squad there now. He was frustrating at times but I think 95% of our fan base absolutely loved him. Doyle up front was a coup too - he was lethal for Swindon last season. 

 

He's not playing badly, but the real MVP the last month or two has been Kieran Lee. We're unbeaten in the games he's started and is really looking like a player who should be higher up the leagues. Doyle is a funny one, because he can be totally anonymous for 89 minutes but he'll still get a goal. Just what you need from a striker really. Looking forward to Denis Politic coming back next season as he's one hell of a prospect. 

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20 hours ago, Gotters said:

 

I said this a couple of weeks back, pens are converted at around 80%, it's quite hard to create a chance in open play with 0.8xG so with football playing the stats now as it does we're seeing this deeply cynical exploitation of the percentages, and its really really dull. 

 

Although of course there's not a 100% chance of getting that penalty.

 

19 hours ago, rjpageuk said:

Saying that the defender has been stupid here is just bizarre to me - should defenders no longer try to block crosses by sliding well away from an attacker?

 

No attack was impeded by the actions of the defender as the only way contact could be initiated was by Kane giving up possession so the ball was going off the pitch.

 

And that's why it's dumbassery from the defender, it's a position he doesn't need to put himself in.

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6 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Although of course there's not a 100% chance of getting that penalty.

 

Agree there isn't 100% guarantee, but if you attempt a shot or cross that isn't guaranteed either, and if they don't come off the blame is on the person executing (or maybe some good defending). I think the frequency of falling over and trying to win pens is increasing as it shifts the problem to somebody else, the ref, players and fans love blaming external factors for not winning and its almost better to blame the ref 'who gave us nothing all day' as opposed to attempting something with the ball. 

 

You rarely see people after a game talking about their own players falling over or cheating in failed attempts to win pens, but you will see complaints about cows backsides not being hit with banjos or players being wasteful in possession in the box.

 

When data takes over you see some odd unintended consequences, and I think players and management are now so driven by their stats this is one of the fallouts from that. 

 

Arteta got stick the other day from saying Arsenal put a load of crosses in as you need 25 (or whatever the number was) to yield a goal - I bet you teams also know damn well how many times you need to fall over to get a pen, irrespective of contact levels. 

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Just reading about the pace of the Premier league schedule - https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/mar/22/premier-league-relentlessness-international-break - and one stat stood out.

 

Man City played their 30th Premier League game of this season on the same day as they played their 30th in 2019.  Difference is, the 2019 season started 40 days earlier than this one.

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I think we're seeing that workload beyond injuries, a lot of the matches now have a low quality pre-season or testimonial pace to them with pressing and intensity not something many can muster for long.

 

This is normally the point where somebody mentions how much players get played for just playing ball and how its pathetic they can't play 'only' 3 games of elite level sport a week.

 

Still good to see the game is taking this all seriously as players fly off for a full schedule of international crap games this week in various Covid hot spots around the world. 

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5 hours ago, Gotters said:

 

Agree there isn't 100% guarantee, but if you attempt a shot or cross that isn't guaranteed either, and if they don't come off the blame is on the person executing (or maybe some good defending). I think the frequency of falling over and trying to win pens is increasing as it shifts the problem to somebody else, the ref, players and fans love blaming external factors for not winning and its almost better to blame the ref 'who gave us nothing all day' as opposed to attempting something with the ball. 

 

You rarely see people after a game talking about their own players falling over or cheating in failed attempts to win pens, but you will see complaints about cows backsides not being hit with banjos or players being wasteful in possession in the box.

 

When data takes over you see some odd unintended consequences, and I think players and management are now so driven by their stats this is one of the fallouts from that. 

 

Arteta got stick the other day from saying Arsenal put a load of crosses in as you need 25 (or whatever the number was) to yield a goal - I bet you teams also know damn well how many times you need to fall over to get a pen, irrespective of contact levels. 


Penalty awards are going up but again it’s funny how much focus there is on Kane constantly getting them as Spurs historically are terrible at getting penalties unlike habitual penalty winners Leicester or current penalty getters champions Man Utd...

 

I know we all have a bias to our own clubs and feel like we never get the rub of the green or things go against us but Spurs statistically very rarely get penalties and give loads away, if anything Kane needs to be falling over more so we can catch up with free flowing goal scoring box attacking clubs like Brighton and Fulham.....

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Being in the opponents penalty box and attacking is always a start to get pens, something Jose isn't currently pushing as a tactic. 

 

I think of Kane (and Son) as general purpose all round divers, its a good way to relieve pressure to hoof it to one of them and then they go down to get a FK allowing the defence to reset, and possibly launch an attack from. 

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35 minutes ago, Dudley said:

There are other factors in giving away penalties than just being "unlucky" you know.


Having shite defenders is current curse but even when we were decent at the back we gave away way more than average.... makes you think....

 

 

32 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Being in the opponents penalty box and attacking is always a start to get pens, something Jose isn't currently pushing as a tactic. 

 

I think of Kane (and Son) as general purpose all round divers, its a good way to relieve pressure to hoof it to one of them and then they go down to get a FK allowing the defence to reset, and possibly launch an attack from. 

 

We are talking about historically, all through the Poch years and before - even when we are in the top 4 and scoring more than most we still have a very low penalty average and yet the rhetoric is about Kane always diving and conning the ref for penalties but simple facts don’t back that up - I accept Arsenal fans being anti Kane and that’s beautiful as it’s pure jealousy and joyous but it’s the whole of the press and it’s just odd....

 

Seems hard to find stats around fouls won but I bet Kane and or Son are way below the average ;) 

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6 hours ago, Gotters said:

I think we're seeing that workload beyond injuries, a lot of the matches now have a low quality pre-season or testimonial pace to them with pressing and intensity not something many can muster for long.

 

This is normally the point where somebody mentions how much players get played for just playing ball and how its pathetic they can't play 'only' 3 games of elite level sport a week.

 

Still good to see the game is taking this all seriously as players fly off for a full schedule of international crap games this week in various Covid hot spots around the world. 


Group stages (and beyond) at the Euros have the potential to be absolutely dire. Jaded players off the back of a hectic season playing to not lose. Italy will walk it.

 

Another brilliant head in the sand approach by authorities, with mainland Europe now staring down the barrel of a third wave. An international tournament with no fans? Think I’d rather watch nine hours of braying toffs shouting ‘c’mon Tim’ at a half-empty Wimbledon.

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That's interesting, FSG may review their interest in Liverpool off the back of that. They have stated, on many occasions in the past, FFP was crucial to their reasoning for purchasing Liverpool.

 

It's been pretty much dead in the water for a fair while now but I imagine with it becoming official rich owners will pump even more money into clubs.

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I imagine a few of the owners that have seen clubs as investments (Kroenke at Arsenal) could see this as an opportunity to sell up to loaded awful regimes or individuals at great profit.

 

It's almost impossible to fail the test to buy a club, which tells you all you need to know about that Newcastle approach.

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18 hours ago, glb said:


Group stages (and beyond) at the Euros have the potential to be absolutely dire. Jaded players off the back of a hectic season playing to not lose. Italy will walk it.

 

Another brilliant head in the sand approach by authorities, with mainland Europe now staring down the barrel of a third wave. An international tournament with no fans? Think I’d rather watch nine hours of braying toffs shouting ‘c’mon Tim’ at a half-empty Wimbledon.


no friendlies though, right? Only qualifiers?

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2 hours ago, SeanR said:


no friendlies though, right? Only qualifiers?

 

21 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

Some friendlies. 


I’m still annoyed the Community Shield went ahead this season. Don’t get me started on international friendlies that have been scheduled this season.

 

*goes outside and shouts at clouds*

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