Jump to content

Football Thread 2020/2021


Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, AfromB said:

Don’t the “laws” of the game technically belong to the F.A.? Wouldn’t any competition unauthorised by FIFA etc therefore need new rules?

As football, as its American cousin, is getting more and more a spectacle and less a sport, expect rules to be changed to accommodate it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ork1927 said:

12 teams signed up - maybe PSG are staying quiet for now and Bayern/Dortmund have both stated they won't join.


Bayern have made a statement that leaves wiggle room.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem here is the existential threat to football from things people could be watching and invested in that aren't football. If you strip history away and then add VAR on to even strip the chaotic last minute goal celebrations (with people sitting for 2 minutes while a referee in a truck 40 miles away draws lines on a screen), price out the most passionate of fans and then make the entire thing a pay-gated spectacle then what do you have left? e-sports in particular are a huge threat to football - normally free to watch on Twitch, largely entirely ability based, exciting to watch, allows people to sample the same experience easily from the comfort of their own living room etc etc. Look at the quality of the LEC coverage of League, or coverage of a good CS:GO, Valorant or even Apex tournament. Some of the recent Apex tournaments in particular, if you follow a team, have had more heart stopping and exciting moments in the last 3 months than Spurs have managed in the last three years. I've supported Everton for 40 years, but the last two pandemic fucked years and all this shit have made me less inclined to follow them closely, even if they aren't directly involved in the fuckhead jamboree. 

 

This has the makings of a group of old men thinking they're being super smart, but who'll end up burning the lot to the ground.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

F1 is currently in danger of reaping this.  Ecclestone when in charge said he didn't care about young fans because they couldn't afford to buy the things advertised.

 

And if you don't know him, that's probably all you need to know about that particular person and his style.

 

But at the same time F1 was hawked to Sky like Football and motor racing isn't like football, it's a lot more difficult to discover as a child without TV.

 

So they've got fans dying off, still more priced out (not least because it's almost impossible to get sky to sell you it without buying football too) and no new fans coming in.

 

And they're acting surprised figures are down.

 

The mistake I think they may be making from that angle in football is thinking that because ooh, Manchester United vs Barcelona is a draw not, that is still will be when it's the 4th time this season it's been played.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, cavalcade said:

The problem here is the existential threat to football from things people could be watching and invested in that aren't football. If you strip history away and then add VAR on to even strip the chaotic last minute goal celebrations (with people sitting for 2 minutes while a referee in a truck 40 miles away draws lines on a screen), price out the most passionate of fans and then make the entire thing a pay-gated spectacle then what do you have left? e-sports in particular are a huge threat to football - normally free to watch on Twitch, largely entirely ability based, exciting to watch, allows people to sample the same experience easily from the comfort of their own living room etc etc. Look at the quality of the LEC coverage of League, or coverage of a good CS:GO, Valorant or even Apex tournament. Some of the recent Apex tournaments in particular, if you follow a team, have had more heart stopping and exciting moments in the last 3 months than Spurs have managed in the last three years. I've supported Everton for 40 years, but the last two pandemic fucked years and all this shit have made me less inclined to follow them closely, even if they aren't directly involved in the fuckhead jamboree. 

 

This has the makings of a group of old men thinking they're being super smart, but who'll end up burning the lot to the ground.  


You almost had a point here but nothing in any e-sport match ever will compare to the CL game against Ajax, I’m aware it’s the current trend to dig out Spurs but you should have compared those e-sport moments to to the past 40 years of supporting Everton really...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got a chance to see that Gary Neville interview thing while he has some valid points, he keeps going back to greed, like BTSport and SKY didn't try and charge us £15 a game during the pandemic to watch a PPV live game on top of peoples monthly £40/50 subscriptions. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


You almost had a point here but nothing in any e-sport match ever will compare to the CL game against Ajax, I’m aware it’s the current trend to dig out Spurs but you should have compared those e-sport moments to to the past 40 years of supporting Everton really...

 

The trouble is here you sound a little bit like someone in 1900 saying "Those cars will never compared to watching horses".

 

It might not for us, for the kids being born now.... I don't know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, humdrum said:

Just got a chance to see that Gary Neville interview thing while he has some valid points, he keeps going back to greed, like BTSport and SKY didn't try and change us £15 a game during the pandemic to watch a PPV live game on top of peoples monthly £40/50 subscriptions. 

 

 

And for that matter than the Premier League breakaway wasn't created, at least partly by SKY for the very same reasons.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, humdrum said:

Just got a chance to see that Gary Neville interview thing while he has some valid points, he keeps going back to greed, like BTSport and SKY didn't try and charge us £15 a game during the pandemic to watch a PPV live game on top of peoples monthly £40/50 subscriptions. 

 

 

That was the clubs as well wasn't it? Leicester were the only ones to vote against it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Fox said:

 

Yes, people notoriously hate it when asked to work a lot less often for more money.

True - but if there is an alternate of domestic leagues and UEFA European competitions with a non ESL big club then some players will opt for that.

 

If playing for an ESL club means only playing in the ESL then it starts to look more like the MLS or going to China for crazy money than transfering to another club in the same or different domestic leagues. Obviously the ESL would have a lot more prestige/global appeal than going to China for the money, but if the clubs are totally cut adrfit by UEFA/FIFA then player transfers may get very messy and if you sign for Arsenal in the ESL but can't get in the first team for the 20 games they play then what happens to you in the long term?  Can't go out on loan/some better player likely to displace you in the squad at some point/can't prove your worth in a cup competition.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


You almost had a point here but nothing in any e-sport match ever will compare to the CL game against Ajax, I’m aware it’s the current trend to dig out Spurs but you should have compared those e-sport moments to to the past 40 years of supporting Everton really...

 

Yes, it's been rough since the mid80s, I get it.

 

But by and large football is a lot of heritage, pageantry, personalities, local connections, history and the potential for upsets. Strip all that away and football isn't an entertainment platform that can compete. It doesn't exist in a vacuum any more. Football more often than not is quite dull, played out in an uninspiring setting with people whose personalities have been sanded smooth by media training. How inspirational and close to the football you're playing in the park with your mates is a breakaway league of rich fuckers? Increasingly it's distant, costly to attend in person and fairly shorn from any context that might make you give a shit.

 

My kids aren't even aware of football, beyond some shaky hold on the names of some of the bigger teams. They each follow big e-sport teams/personalities related to the games they're obsessed with. Of course, not all kids are like this, and there are plenty who still put football first and foremost, but this isn't 1985. There is a mass of optionality, from other sports through to "extreme" or e-sports now. Thinking football is an endless cash cow that can be milked for the next 100 years might be wildly optimistic. And the more you chip away at its foundations and the strengths that give it a heft no esport can currently match the more you devalue it and start putting these options into the picture.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Dudley said:

F1 is currently in danger of reaping this.  Ecclestone when in charge said he didn't care about young fans because they couldn't afford to buy the things advertised.

 

And if you don't know him, that's probably all you need to know about that particular person and his style.

 

But at the same time F1 was hawked to Sky like Football and motor racing isn't like football, it's a lot more difficult to discover as a child without TV.

 

So they've got fans dying off, still more priced out (not least because it's almost impossible to get sky to sell you it without buying football too) and no new fans coming in.

 

And they're acting surprised figures are down.

 

 

I mean you make some good points although in recent years viewing figures for F1 worldwide seem to be increasing. 

 

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/f1-bahrain-gp-2021-sky-sports-viewing-tv-ratings-formula-one

 

Quote

This marks the 2021 season opener as the most watched Grand Prix ever on Sky's channels and the first race to peak at more than two million viewers, with fans tuning in to watch Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen closely battle for the race win.

 

In the US, the Bahrain Grand Prix scored a strong audience on the ESPN2 pay-TV network. The race brought in an average audience of 879,000, a viewership larger than any Formula One Grands Prix during the 2020 season. That figure also made the first race of the 2021 season the most-viewed live Formula One broadcast on ESPN2 - record dating back to 1995 - and the most-viewed Bahrain Grand Prix on record since the event started in 2004.

 

It is defo a question of pay tv vs free to air. Does the bigger audience that BBC 1 naturally brings offset the larger revenue that pay TV brings? You also still have a decent highlights package on C4 too. 

 

You've also got an increased emphases on social media trying to attract younger fans and the Netflix F1 documentary which seems incredibly popular and also driving awareness of the sport. 

 

In Countries without specific TV deals in place, fans can subscribe and watch through the F1 App. 

 

I'm not saying F1 doesn't have issues but it is arguably in a healthier state now than it has been for many years and the cost cap for participating teams seems to be doing its job in keeping teams in and laying the ground work for future teams to enter. 

 

I have no doubt Liberty Media is only in F1 to make a profit but they have made some smart course corrections from the Eccleston Era. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

The trouble is here you sound a little bit like someone in 1900 saying "Those cars will never compared to watching horses".

 

It might not for us, for the kids being born now.... I don't know.


I do watch some e-sports and you may have a point but it’s not like e-sport is a new thing on the up challenging traditional sports as while it’s gaining some momentum it’s been going years and in that time football has become richer, bigger and gained viewers/supporters at a rate e-sports would love. It feels more like mobile gaming will kill gaming attitude when it’s fairly clear they are different enough to survive alongside each other with loads of cross over support.

 

I will not suddenly support my fave Apex team, Fortnite squad etc etc in the way I support my football team should Spurs continue in the ESL but move my support fully to my local team Norwich who are my second team in any case - unless they get in the ESL.....

 

I do however continue to boycott England and all international football due to the upcoming World Cup disgrace so could genuinely be a Norwich supporter soon :o 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Eighthours said:

 

Shots fired if true.

Annoyingly for UEFA - they can't easily replaces the excluded Champions League teams with the ones that lost to them in the 1/4s as Porto and Dortmund could be re-instated, but not the team that Real beat that used to give a shit about the European Cup.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gotters said:

 

English clubs, nobody gives a toss about Celtic/Rangers Cardiff/Swansea or Cobh Ramblers.

 

1 hour ago, bear said:

What have Cobh Ramblers got to do with anything? 

 

1 hour ago, Gotters said:

or Celtic for that matter.

 

Cobh Ramblers aren't British. They're not even fake British, like Linfield.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, bradigor said:

UEFA won't pull them from this season, they don't have the balls

 

Would be a massive statement of intent but I agree with you. 

 

I also think ultimately Fifa won't have the balls to ban players from the World Cup or the Premier League to boot the teams out. 

 

I think the idea is terrible and hope it dies a swift death but I do think there is a difference between the rhetoric currently being said and actual reality at the end of the day. 

 

UEFA don't help themselves for the also pretty terrible revamp of CL they have been pursuing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

BT don’t get very good rating for their Champions League and Europa League coverage do they? The ratings have plummeted since it went being a paywall.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gotters said:

 

English clubs, nobody gives a toss about Celtic/Rangers Cardiff/Swansea or Cobh Ramblers.

Hey - when the big six get kicked out then Cardiff/Swansea could be the main top flight derby in a couple of season's time.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


I do watch some e-sports and you may have a point but it’s not like e-sport is a new thing on the up challenging traditional sports as while it’s gaining some momentum it’s been going years and in that time football has become richer, bigger and gained viewers/supporters at a rate e-sports would love. It feels more like mobile gaming will kill gaming attitude when it’s fairly clear they are different enough to survive alongside each other with loads of cross over support.

 

I will not suddenly support my fave Apex team, Fortnite squad etc etc in the way I support my football team should Spurs continue in the ESL but move my support fully to my local team Norwich who are my second team in any case - unless they get in the ESL.....

 

I do however continue to boycott England and all international football due to the upcoming World Cup disgrace so could genuinely be a Norwich supporter soon :o 

Oh great, if we’re having local teams, you’re going to banter the fuck out of mine then..... it USED to be the other way :( come on you Blues :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, McCoy said:

UEFA don't help themselves for the also pretty terrible revamp of CL they have been pursuing. 

 

One of the strange things about all this is that Juve Chairman Andrea Agnelli was a big supporter of the new format. Believe he was one of the primary people pushing for the change, and now this has all happened. Makes me wonder which teams have been the driving forces behind this and which are going along with it because they're afraid of being left behind... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rather than start a new competition up, if these teams wanted to do something it would be better to do a compressed tournament at the end of a season. Something like Six Nations but a knockout tournament played over 10 days or something. 

 

I've just been pondering about why Six Nations seems to work as a closed league but this idea seems instantly wrong. Is it because Six Nations is international teams rather than Club teams? 

 

I mean, I think there is a good European format out there but have never been convinced that CL has got it right and this idea is also terrible. I think the closed format is terrible, if only because it takes away the enjoyment from the National leagues of needing to do well in that league to get to play against the European teams. CL though is far too ponderous and stop start to really get much momentum until the closing rounds. You want a system where the best teams in Europe play a European competition but arguably I'd prefer a Euros style knockout competition to the current CL which just drags on forever. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, McCoy said:

I've just been pondering about why Six Nations seems to work as a closed league but this idea seems instantly wrong. Is it because Six Nations is international teams rather than Club teams? 

 

International teams, and there's no-one local knocking on the door.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, MikeBeaver said:

Oh great, if we’re having local teams, you’re going to banter the fuck out of mine then..... it USED to be the other way :( come on you Blues :lol:


Your thread is on page 3 mate, this is the premier league thread ;) 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.