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Football Thread 2020/2021


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3 minutes ago, Pants McSkill said:

 

The flip of this is numerous countries announcing they are splitting off from NATO to create a new global military alliance to compete with young people playing FIFA and Animal Crossing online.

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I'll willing give Harry Kane shit for many things on the pitch but even I wouldn't say any player has an obligation to speak out on this having been put in this position by lousy owners spectacularly misreading the room.

 

It reflects well on those who decided to, especially before the dominos had started to topple in the evening, but all players were never obliged to.

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Among the people that John Henry apologised to was his own CEO.  What the fuck is going on with that?

 

I think that most fans who aren't on a wind-up accept that the players had no part in this.

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34 minutes ago, artz said:

Willingess to speak is a non-negotiable leadership requirement.

 

I presume you know how he acted behind the scenes, how he spoke to his team mates, if there was any communication between him and Levy regarding the negotiations etc etc?

 

Club captains aren't just mouth pieces for the media - only a very small proportion of players of the 6 English clubs have come out and said anything on an issue that was as much of a surprise to them as it was to us.

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10 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

 

I presume you know how he acted behind the scenes, how he spoke to his team mates, if there was any communication between him and Levy regarding the negotiations etc etc?

 

Club captains aren't just mouth pieces for the media - only a very small proportion of players of the 6 English clubs have come out and said anything on an issue that was as much of a surprise to them as it was to us.

Not at all, fair play to him if he was holding meetings behind the scenes like Henderson and Shaw. Hopefully Southgate will be asking the right questions.

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2 minutes ago, artz said:

Not at all, fair play to him if he was holding meetings behind the scenes like Maguire & Henderson. Hopefully Southgate will be asking the right questions.

What are these questions? You must really have a dislike for Kane. Bizarre. 

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6 minutes ago, artz said:

Not at all, fair play to him if he was holding meetings behind the scenes like Maguire & Henderson. Hopefully Southgate will be asking the right questions.

 

I think there's a lot of questions to be asked but not necessarily by players or coaches - and although I don't think any further action will be taken against the clubs involved, I hope I'm wrong.

 

I appreciate that the fans and even the coaching staff/players are blameless in this, but was that not also the case in the many examples of clubs being sanctioned by the PL, the FA etc over financial irregularities?  Countless clubs have been deducted points etc over the past few years.  Sucks for those blameless for the actions of the greedy fuckwits at the very top of these clubs, but something needs to be done to ensure this never happens again.

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4 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

What are these questions? You must really have a dislike for Kane. Bizarre. 

Not at all, I think he's a great goal scorer who has spoken out on issues before like BLM. But being England captain he really should have said something about the proposed dismantling of the English football pyramid.

 

Actually, thinking about it I didn't hear anything from Southgate...

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The thing is, deducting points and stuff will just harden the resolve to find a different way of doing things. I'm not sure what kind of sanction could shape behaviour, but I'm not sure points deductions are it. 

 

I do agree there needs to be some kind of punishment though. 

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The best sanction may play out quite slowly and not be immediately apparent - it will be how much of a grip is lost that the biggest teams had in the PL and within UEFA.

 

Next time they try to get a bigger share of domestic TV rights the 'others' can say 'what you going to do, threaten a super league again'

 

This strength of backlash against this within 24h has probably surprised them all, and the fact it was universal too. 

 

They've always threatened something like this in the past and the others have caved, next time it will play out a bit differently. The long threatened nuclear option has finally been used and it didn't work. 

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14 minutes ago, Gabe said:

The thing is, deducting points and stuff will just harden the resolve to find a different way of doing things. I'm not sure what kind of sanction could shape behaviour, but I'm not sure points deductions are it. 

 

I do agree there needs to be some kind of punishment though. 


Equal TV revenue and gate receipts sharing.

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Equal TV revenue is definitely what the Premier League should push for. No more domestic shares based on number of televised matches.

 

Gate receipt sharing isn't a starter though.

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25 minutes ago, Gabe said:

The thing is, deducting points and stuff will just harden the resolve to find a different way of doing things. I'm not sure what kind of sanction could shape behaviour, but I'm not sure points deductions are it. 

 

I do agree there needs to be some kind of punishment though. 

 

Does this failed ESL not sort of take away the main threat these big teams have had over Uefa/Fifa/The Premier League/Whoever? Before they could say they want more things to go their way or they will take their ball and start up a new competition but now that has happened and failed within 24 hours they've lost a lot of potential leverage and I can't see the other teams wanting to give in to their demands so easily going forward.

 

Am I just being too optimistic here?

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yeah, gate receipt sharing is just a wind up statement - Spurs spent a billion on their ground to generate £3m+ a game in ticket sales, they should not be obliged to hand over half of that to clubs still playing in Archibald Leitch built wooden shacks.

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27 minutes ago, spork said:

 

Does this failed ESL not sort of take away the main threat these big teams have had over Uefa/Fifa/The Premier League/Whoever? Before they could say they want more things to go their way or they will take their ball and start up a new competition but now that has happened and failed within 24 hours they've lost a lot of potential leverage and I can't see the other teams wanting to give in to their demands so easily going forward.

 

Am I just being too optimistic here?

I would hope you are right but, as I say, I think they will just find other ways to screw everybody over. Now they know the general sentiment I wouldn't be surprised if they adapt their approach and messaging. 

 

I think it has probably killed off any such move for a few years though. 

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35 minutes ago, Gotters said:

yeah, gate receipt sharing is just a wind up statement - Spurs spent a billion on their ground to generate £3m+ a game in ticket sales, they should not be obliged to hand over half of that to clubs still playing in Archibald Leitch built wooden shacks.

 

It wouldn't need to be a 50:50 split though. At the moment, I don't think the away team get anything at all, which just increases the gulf between the rich and poor clubs. Over the course of a season, the club with 19 home games in a packed 90,000 seater stadium is still earning more than the club with the 15,000 seat shack, even with an equal share of the gate.

 

For me it's about the health of the game that they all participate in - we all pay our taxes in life so that the people who need it most have what they need, and football should have the same ethos. Besides, everybody needs an opponent for a game to take place - nobody's paying to see Spurs not play a football match.

 

Insert Jose Mourinho joke here.

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I think a roadmap to wrestling back control would be to even out the TV money distributed which would make some of these clubs less desirable to billionaires, hope they go away and then impose a mandatory percentage sale to fans when they sell up. It's pie in the sky though as no government would get behind measure that would deflate such a big industry, and some owners aren't that interested in making money anyway if they're using the club to sportswash. I think the horse has bolted though to reform the sport properly as the clubs are too massive for fans to realistically raise the revenue to even be in the discussion now. Fan ownership isn't a solve all either, just look at Barcelona and Real. 

 

There's two debates going on really – how do you even the sport out so it's more competitive and how do you stop bad owners trying to hijack the sport. There's terrible people in ownership of clubs up and down the leagues who would have killed to have been part of this super league. Giving Sheikh Mansour's money to another billionaire like Farhad Moshiri for instance may make Everton a tiny bit better, but doesn't address the problem of the control being in the hands of a very few unscrupulous people. I honestly have no idea how you'd go about fixing it, but sharing out the pittance that is gate receipts isn't going to do it I suspect.

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I guess we will never truely know how many of the clubs jumped on board at a fear of missing out and finding themselves not invited into the closed shop at the expense of others (so very, very, very slightly less greedy bastards) and how many, like Real, felt they had a God given right to be at the top of the pile and protected forever while coining in even more and more money because of who they are.

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Gate receipts was sort of a joke.  It was that which started the beginning of the disparity between club incomes in the mid-80s.

 

IIRC, the away team don't get any income.  They ask for an allocation up to the maximum and it is incumbent upon them to sell it.  So if they ask for 2,500 tickets and only sell 1,500 then tough, they have to pay for all of them.  They also pay the ticket price, so it isn't a profit centre for them.  (Technically, you could claim a loss as they have to do the work to process the requests but everyone is doing the same thing so it probably evens out.)  I seem to recall that clubs can do a number (3?) of special discount / promotions which usually ends up being a free t-shirt but occasionally is a tenner off or kids goes free.

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Sharing gate receipts would be less of an interesting factor if tickets were capped at £15, mind you. Ticket prices are high because costs are high because wages are high because ticket prices are high. It's fucking daft.

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From a business perspective why should the tv money be evenly distributed? There are some clubs that people are just less interested in watching. I think most of the ppv games were considered flops and they were nearly all the lesser supported teams weren't they? (I might well be wrong) 

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7 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

From a business perspective why should the tv money be evenly distributed? There are some clubs that people are just less interested in watching. I think most of the ppv games were considered flops and they were nearly all the lesser supported teams weren't they? (I might well be wrong) 

Well yeah, probably is resonable from a business perspective, but it's an odd way to look at football, unless you're a billionaire 

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7 minutes ago, dr_manhattan^ said:

Well yeah, probably is resonable from a business perspective, but it's an odd way to look at football, unless you're a billionaire 

I think the main issue is that football is now a business more than anything. Can't see how that is ever going to change. How could it? Should it? 

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1 minute ago, Stoppy2000 said:

I think the main issue is that football is now a business more than anything. Can't see how that is ever going to change. How could it? Should it? 

Well, that's the core of the outrage this week.

 

In my opinion we should absolutely strive to get as close to a fair sport as possible.  I don't see much point in anything else.

 

If we let go of that drive we're basically just cheering on a bunch of marketing companies.

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