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Football Thread 2020/2021


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Florentino Perez has been ranting overnight it seems to anybody who'll listen, claiming the project isn't dead it's just resting for a bit (I don't think he's a Monty Python fan). he insists nobody has left and they've all signed binding contracts anyway (which may of course be true) - I'd question the ownership structure of the new company they setup to run the Super League, if they all had 12 equal shares and the 6 PL teams quit they've got 50% of the votes to not enforce any action on the leavers.

 

Then he gets even more bizarre claiming its impossible for teams like Real to compete and sign the biggest players on current budgets - how about paying less in transfer fees and wages ?

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14 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Then he gets even more bizarre claiming its impossible for teams like Real to compete and sign the biggest players on current budgets - how about paying less in transfer fees and wages ?

He's such a liar. Claiming that it's impossible for Real fucking Madrid not to be losing money :lol:. Basically it looks like RM have gambled their budget on the Super League happening and now they're in the shit.

 

Hopefully they'll have to do a Rangers; even though it won't take them long to resurface, it would be funny as fuck.

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It's almost as if them spending €500m to add a sliding roof on the stadium whilst reducing seating capacity is a bad idea.

 

Barca & Real (Athleti too) have always cycled thru boom and bust competing with each other in recent years - they must have run out of training grounds to sell having got dodgy planning approvals thru to build on them which has bailed them out in the past (along with the Spanish banks)

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Quote

Q: How much do the clubs have to pay if they leave the ESL?

Florentino: I'm not going to answer that.

Q: But you just said transparency is important.

Florentino: Yes, but transparency is for the others.*

:lol:

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7 minutes ago, ryodi said:

The old classic is back

 

 

 

I can understand the frustrations of Rangers and Celtic, as they are huge clubs and would be real forces with Premier Legaue money, but it's just not fair on clubs like Sheffield Wednesday and Forest etc to remove Premier League spots they are fighting for and have successfully held in the past.

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I can't believe there is any appetite for this, it's journos seeing the clicks/attention they got the last few days trying to drum up a day or two more out of the story.

 

There is no real financial imperative to do it as they don't make the Premier league any bigger than it is, and these cross border competitions are a UEFA minefield with qualification places for their main competitions.

 

I don't even think the welsh teams should be in the EPL but that is a historic matter.

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Like I said, Perez is a dickhead... and full of shit.  He mouthed off about something about needing money for "projects", probably like the project to by Mbappe, but has he actually thought that maybe Mbappe wants to stay at his boyhood club and not move to Spain just on his fucking say so?  Maybe Perez should lower his sights and spend within his means for once.

 

And the "British" Super League... yawn same old bullshit as before - it's not the "British Super League", it's the Rangers and Celtic move to the Premier League rumours again.  It won't happen - it'd fuck the Scottish Premier League for a start, and make it more likely FIFA may start to put pressure on England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to consolidate.

 

In other words, this:

  

4 minutes ago, Gotters said:

I can't believe there is any appetite for this, it's journos seeing the clicks/attention they got the last few days trying to drum up a day or two more out of the story.

 

There is no real financial imperative to do it as they don't make the Premier league any bigger than it is, and these cross border competitions are a UEFA minefield with qualification places for their main competitions.

 

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24 minutes ago, Gotters said:

I don't even think the welsh teams should be in the EPL but that is a historic matter.

 

I really don't have a problem with it.  Cardiff were formed in 1899 and there wasn't an official Welsh league for them to play in for the first 92 years of their existence.

 

As for the Ugly Sisters joining the PL, it takes some balls to react to the biggest clubs in a league deciding to unilaterally leave for more money and say that the replacement should be the two biggest clubs in another league joining you because they can make more money.

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I'm surprised more hasn't been made of Perez bleating on about money when his club have won more Champions Leagues and La Liga titles than anyone else and are still half a billion quid in debt.

 

The Super League clubs are in debt to the tune of over £3bn between them.  Apparently being the richest and the most successful on and off the pitch means you get to owe the most money.

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Perez was spouting so much shit it's hard to decide which bit to pick apart the most.

 

The assertion the top players can't be signed without the super league is nuts, did Platini, Gullit, Maradona, Van Basten, Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo (fat & CR7) etc all sit on the sidelines clubless at the peak of their careers or playing at the smaller clubs who originally signed them ? No they played for whoever had the most dosh and could pay them.

 

It may be impossible for a self sustaining club to pay what Haaland/Mbabbe's agents are demanding and the fees of €300m Dortmund/PSG are claiming but there is always a top bidder and these players end up there, Chelsea & Utd are incredibly well funded (Utd on their own 2 feet, Chelsea via their Oligarch). City & PSG are good for a few years until oil becomes worthless, so no worries there.

 

On top of all that both are not nailed down to long contracts, Mbappe has 1y left at PSG and Haaland has a very reasonable release clause next summer in 2022.

 

Debt is not all equal, Spurs' debt is mostly to build their ground, Utd's is to service the Glazer buy out, Arsenal's historically mostly on the Emirates but Kroenke been upping it a bit. Its the Milan and Spanish teams that look worse as they've just been piling up year on year huge operational losses in the hope new TV deals bail them out, or they find their own sovereign wealth fund or oligarch.

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Wtf is happening at Utd?!  Pretty crazy a 'group' can access the training ground and demand to see the manager!! Thankfully it sounds like some of the players and manager got them to leave in the end.

 

A few extracts....

 10:38

 

More on the United protest

Red Issue

(@RedIssue)

Carrington’s facilities manager came out to speak to the protesters, despite brandishing a scouse accent.

 

He was told the group wanted to speak to Solskjaer. The scouser said that he wouldn’t be coming out cos the group was “intimidating”.

 

They said they’d stay until he did.

 

April 22, 2021

Red Issue

(@RedIssue)

The facilities manager went back inside to petition Solskjaer, who eventually came out alongside his coaching staff.

 

Solskjaer was asked where his voice has disappeared to, having previously become a patron of @MU_ST in 2005, supporting the campaign against the Glazers.

 

April 22, 2021

Red Issue

(@RedIssue)

The protesters asked why he could take a stand then, as a player, but not now in his far more powerful position as manager.

 

He replied that “Joel” loves the club.

 

April 22, 2021

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8 minutes ago, Chewylegs said:

Wtf is happening at Utd?!  Pretty crazy a 'group' can access the training ground and demand to see the manager!! Thankfully it sounds like some of the players and manager got them to leave in the end.

 

We've never had the same, um, intimidatory tactics by fan groups that are pretty common in Italy and Spain so the security is a lot more lax.  This is a good thing, and it wouldn't be a surprise if a bunch of self-important twats managed to ruin that as well.

 

It's absolutely clear that the managers of the clubs and the players had absolutely no idea what was going on and were shoved out by their owners to act as shields.

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1 minute ago, Plissken said:

 

We've never had the same, um, intimidatory tactics by fan groups that are pretty common in Italy and Spain so the security is a lot more lax.  This is a good thing, and it wouldn't be a surprise if a bunch of self-important twats managed to ruin that as well.

 

It's absolutely clear that the managers of the clubs and the players had absolutely no idea what was going on and were shoved out by their owners to act as shields.

Thankfully nothing happened but it's quite worrying to be frank.  These things can escalate after all.

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1 hour ago, Gotters said:

I don't even think the welsh teams should be in the EPL but that is a historic matter.

Because we shouldn't be in the English pyramid at all or not in the top flight where we could qualify for Europe although that would go for the cups as well?

 

Any attempts to bring Celtic and Rangers in would be no different to what the ESL tried to do. Teams purely put in a league without earning it and who could never be relegated as where would they go and who do they displace to get in there in the first place.

 

Us and the Jacks earnt our stints in the top flight the same as any other team in the English pyramid as well as our relegations and flirting with going out the bottom of League 2 at times.

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8 minutes ago, Ork1927 said:

Because we shouldn't be in the English pyramid at all or not in the top flight where we could qualify for Europe although that would go for the cups as well?

 

Any attempts to bring Celtic and Rangers in would be no different to what the ESL tried to do. Teams purely put in a league without earning it and who could never be relegated as where would they go and who do they displace to get in there in the first place.

 

Us and the Jacks earnt our stints in the top flight the same as any other team in the English pyramid as well as our relegations and flirting with going out the bottom of League 2 at times.

 

yeah, shouldn't be in the English pyramid at all.

 

of course it's historic that you are and as such I'm not suggesting that you can't get promo'd or anything like that. 

 

there aren't many examples of it at all in world football, technically Monaco in France and a small handful of others last I checked in very minor leagues.

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10 minutes ago, Ork1927 said:

Because we shouldn't be in the English pyramid at all or not in the top flight where we could qualify for Europe although that would go for the cups as well?

 

Any attempts to bring Celtic and Rangers in would be no different to what the ESL tried to do. Teams purely put in a league without earning it and who could never be relegated as where would they go and who do they displace to get in there in the first place.

 

Us and the Jacks earnt our stints in the top flight the same as any other team in the English pyramid as well as our relegations and flirting with going out the bottom of League 2 at times.

I guess the (historical) point is that a Welsh league should've been set up long ago by the clubs that had formed (and arguably that might've made Welsh football stronger than it is now), rather than the clubs joining a foreign league which, when you sit and think about it, doesn't really make any sense.

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Just now, Gabe said:

I guess the (historical) point is that a Welsh league should've been set up long ago by the clubs that had formed (and arguably that might've made Welsh football stronger than it is now), rather than the clubs joining a foreign league which, when you sit and think about it, doesn't really make any sense.

 

The FAW (1896) actually predates the formation of Cardiff (1899) and Swansea (1912).  They just didn't get around to creating a league until 1992, so the clubs had to join the Southern League in England.

 

One of the more amusing bits of bureaucracy is the need for international clearance for transfers to and from English clubs.

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26 minutes ago, Ork1927 said:

Any attempts to bring Celtic and Rangers in would be no different to what the ESL tried to do. Teams purely put in a league without earning it and who could never be relegated as where would they go and who do they displace to get in there in the first place.

 

Yeah the best reason this won't happen is because one of two other things would need to happen.

 

1 - The EFL teams in whatever form would have to agree to let them join as well, because there's every possibility one or both could get themselves relegated at some point and would have to go to the Championship

2 - The other PL teams would have to agree that Rangers and Celtic can't get relegated and the EFL would presumably have to agree to THAT because it'll mean 2 EFL teams don't get promoted and/or other teams get relegated in their place.

 

Neither seems likely.

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4 minutes ago, Plissken said:

 

The FAW (1896) actually predates the formation of Cardiff (1899) and Swansea (1912).  They just didn't get around to creating a league until 1992, so the clubs had to join the Southern League in England. 

Well that's the point, isn't it? They didn't have to join the English league system, they could've remained amateur until a league was formed (and perhaps it might've happened sooner had they not chosen the English pyramid). 

 

It's obviously all academic at this point, but it is a odd little quirk of the system that makes little sense when looking at it logically (and remains this little bit of whataboutism whenever the Rangers & Celtic topic gets brought up every few years - "Well they did it, why not again?")

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2 minutes ago, Plissken said:

 

The FAW (1896) actually predates the formation of Cardiff (1899) and Swansea (1912).  They just didn't get around to creating a league until 1992, so the clubs had to join the Southern League in England.

 

One of the more amusing bits of bureaucracy is the need for international clearance for transfers to and from English clubs.

The Welsh league clubs were in a priviliged position for many years as we had the Welsh Cup which got us qualification into the Cup Winners Cup which then went away a couple of years after the Welsh League was set up, but did mean for a time that you'd have League One and Two teams playing in Europe.  I got to watch Cardiff play in Belgium vs Standard Leige on the Tuesday and then on the Saturday watch us play Blacpool away in League One! At the end of that season we lost 2-1 to Barry in the final of the Welsh Cup and they got to play in Europe. The folowing season we lost to Wresham in the Final and then the English pyramid clubs were no longer allowed to compete.

 

More famously, non league Methyr beating Atalanta in the first leg in 1987 when the English clubs were banned from Europe.

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Just now, Gabe said:

Well that's the point, isn't it? They didn't have to join the English league system, they could've remained amateur until a league was formed (and perhaps it might've happened sooner had they not chosen the English pyramid). 

 

It's obviously all academic at this point, but it is a odd little quirk of the system that makes little sense when looking at it logically (and remains this little bit of whataboutism whenever the Rangers & Celtic topic gets brought up every few years - "Well they did it, why not again?")

 

Just looking at the 1923/24 table where Cardiff lost out on the title to Huddersfield on goal average! there were 6 Welsh teams amongst the 88 league teams - Cardiff, Swansea, Methyr, Newport, Wrexham and Aberdare.

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1 hour ago, Chewylegs said:

Wtf is happening at Utd?!  Pretty crazy a 'group' can access the training ground and demand to see the manager!! Thankfully it sounds like some of the players and manager got them to leave in the end.

 

A few extracts....

 10:38

 

More on the United protest

Red Issue

(@RedIssue)

Carrington’s facilities manager came out to speak to the protesters, despite brandishing a scouse accent.

 

He was told the group wanted to speak to Solskjaer. The scouser said that he wouldn’t be coming out cos the group was “intimidating”.

 

They said they’d stay until he did.

 

April 22, 2021

Red Issue

(@RedIssue)

The facilities manager went back inside to petition Solskjaer, who eventually came out alongside his coaching staff.

 

Solskjaer was asked where his voice has disappeared to, having previously become a patron of @MU_ST in 2005, supporting the campaign against the Glazers.

 

April 22, 2021

Red Issue

(@RedIssue)

The protesters asked why he could take a stand then, as a player, but not now in his far more powerful position as manager.

 

He replied that “Joel” loves the club.

 

April 22, 2021

The focus on the facilities manager having a Liverpool accent is, predictably, pathetic.

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4 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Yeah the best reason this won't happen is because one of two other things would need to happen.

 

1 - The EFL teams in whatever form would have to agree to let them join as well, because there's every possibility one or both could get themselves relegated at some point and would have to go to the Championship

2 - The other PL teams would have to agree that Rangers and Celtic can't get relegated and the EFL would presumably have to agree to THAT because it'll mean 2 EFL teams don't get promoted and/or other teams get relegated in their place.

 

Neither seems likely.

 

And the reports are that it would be an 18 team BPL which would also give a lot of the EPL teams to decide whether to gamble on them being one of the 4 teams displaced (2 by Rangers and Celtic and 2 potentially going down on top of maybe the teams that would go down anyway (assuming promotion from the Championship would still be happening in some form).

 

You'd think everyone below Arsenal in the table at the moment would be unwise to commit to the league shrinking given they've all been in the Championship for some period very recently.

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If Rangers and Celtic are in it, then what is the argument against Cardiff?  I was idly thinking about how a fully franchised closed shop 18 team BPL would look and at least one and possibly the other of the two non Big Clubs that have won the PL title would be excluded.

 

Spoiler

Man Utd

Man City

Liverpool

Everton

Chelsea

Tottenham

Arsenal

Leeds

Aston Villa

Newcastle

Celtic

Rangers

Cardiff

Southampton

Leicester

West Ham

Nottingham Forest

Birmingham City

 

Anyone from Southampton down is an arguable.  Remember, this is a US style regional based franchise system and sporting merit doesn't come into it.  So, do you need all three of Villa, Birmingham and Leicester?  And if you drop one, which is the smallest market and least attractive to TV and sponsors?  I'd probably say Leicester.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Gotters said:

There aren't many examples of it at all in world football, technically Monaco in France and a small handful of others last I checked in very minor leagues.

 

Pretty much. Monaco, Swansea and Cardiff are the highest profile examples. On a rung below that you'll have Derry City in Ireland, Wellington Phoenix in Australia, FC Vaduz in Switzerland and the small handful of Canadian sides in MLS as "foreign" teams playing in the top flight of another country, with various others participating at lower levels such as the remaining Welsh clubs in the English system, the other six Liechtenstein clubs, Berwick Rangers, FC Andorra in the Spanish third tier and a number of others. Also The New Saints in Wales, who represent both Llansantffraid in Wales and Oswestry in England, and have their home ground in the latter.

 

I can understand opposition to new exampes of it - Celtic and Rangers wanting to move to England, for example. But a blanket "they shouldn't be there at all" for the examples listed above would ignore the various historical, politicial and sporting arguments in favour of it, all out of some misguided sense of purity.

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