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Football Thread 2020/2021


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The English clubs went along probably because they feared being left behind if they didn't, and obviously a wodge of money being dangled in front of them helped.

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15 minutes ago, artz said:

Good to see the Arsenal fans out in numbers.

 

"Pin the fail on the Kronke" :lol:

I smiled turning the corner into my street earlier seeing someone had left a "Kronke Out" sign on someone's car

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11 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

 

They'd go straight down to League One. The Championship is a very competitive league full of good teams and good players.  Rangers and Celtic's squads don't begin to compare. I also wonder whether they'd be able to cope with having to play decent opposition every week, rather than four times a season.

 

Rangers have just completed a very impressive Europa League run, and while Celtic are a very special brand of shite this season, at various points in the last 10 they've been a very capable team.

 

Even the Championship would be huge boost to their finances, and they'd regularly fill massive stadiums - more attractive games are a bonus, not a hindrance. Given they can recruit, have well developed youth systems and would have finances that blow smaller Championship teams out of the water, it'd take catastrophic management to fail like that. (which is always possible) 

 

Leeds are also 10th in the Premiership with the guts of a squad that finished mid table in the Championship not long ago, so a good manager goes a long way. 

 

Celtic in the Premiership would have a long term shot at being a genuinely big club because they would get the Irish diaspora behind them and potentially that'd be very lucrative in the US - some success could snowball. I hate saying it, as I am a traitorous Leeds fan in a wider family of Celtic obsessives but Celtic are a bigger club. 

 

It'll never happen, but there is a huge amount of nonsense here. 

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@kensei just to give you an idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue

 

League 1 generates more revenue than the Scottish top flight. Celtic and Rangers are exceptions but take a look at The Championship in this list. 

 

My club, when in League 2, were signing players from the Scottish top flight regularly and they were bang average players mostly. The competition in Scotland is really weak. Neither Celtic or Rangers would waltz into the Premier League. 

 

Financially, Celtic and Rangers can take their pick of any player prepared to play in Scotland. That wouldn't be the case in the English leagues.

 

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I think you are missing the point. 

Celtic or Rangers in the Championship suddenly have the resources of a major Championship club - on top of the TV Revenue, gates and merchandise that will probably exceed any others in the Championship. They instantly become more attractive to investors, too. 

 

They wouldn't walk it and it might take a few years. But they'd have the resources to do it with the right manager in place. 

 

The idea that they'd be relegated straight into League One because they are that bad is just mindless. 

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6 hours ago, kensei said:

I think you are missing the point.

 

6 hours ago, kensei said:

 

The idea that they'd be relegated straight into League One because they are that bad is just mindless. 

 

No. They'd have to probably start lower than League 2. That's my point. 

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I see Moyes has jumped into the discussion now with talk of a Premier League II, again inviting Celtic and Rangers.

 

Supposing it did happen (and I don't think it should), whilst it would undoubtedly be great for those clubs' finances, I wonder how much it would bring to the league overall, especially if they became, at best, mid-table teams?

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I think for all the talk of owners wrecking clubs and the structure of football itself, the actual game is already gone in its current state. I mean, what the fuck is this shit? This wasn’t even the action that led to anything, it was the move before an incident. They had to rewind the tape 20 seconds to find it.
 

image.thumb.jpeg.b66f9f063e66bdbda1368b5cd6082438.jpeg

 

We hear talk of the ‘product’ all the time, but the product stinks. I genuinely feel annoyed and sad at the obligation to sit through top-level games now. 

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In ESL dead cats, Chelsea quietly slipping out they're reducing the capacity of the stadium by about 10% of normal seats by converting the West Upper (already the most expensive GA area) to entirely hospitality from next season. Season ticket holders can stay for 1 year but will then need to pay hospitality prices.

 

This sucks for me particually because I go to cup games only with my dad (where the WU was traditionally the same price as the rest of the ground) and we always chose it because he can't stand for 90 minutes and it's not the effective standing only area that is the ends or the ancient and cramped east stand.

 

So that, combined with the fact it's only going to make it harder to actually get tickets might restrict my chances even further.

 

This news of course was hidden deep in an article headlines "Beward of the Leopard  Season ticket prices frozen"

 

image.png.1ec3b54b5e0becea1cc0f014f64be68f.png

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2 hours ago, Gabe said:

I see Moyes has jumped into the discussion now with talk of a Premier League II, again inviting Celtic and Rangers.

 

Supposing it did happen (and I don't think it should), whilst it would undoubtedly be great for those clubs' finances, I wonder how much it would bring to the league overall, especially if they became, at best, mid-table teams?


As has been pointed out, you can start them where you like but those two sides are supported by most of Scotland and, by extension, any sectarian country in the world. 
 

In Ireland it’s either Liverpool or Celtic. As someone pointed out, Americans would be all over ‘the Irish team’. Try explaining that they’re Glaswegian to your average American. Boston would watch every game. 
 

I’m less familiar with Rangers’ global support (my dad was a Celtic fan) but I’m sure it’s there. In Britain alone, Rangers would have all the weird flag-waving, Queen-loving Brexity nutjobs. That’s 52% of the country at last count. 
 

Celtic represent Catholicism to a lot of the world. Rangers represent Protestants to others. Sadly, that’s still a big deal. 

The fact that they’re in a shit league with no competition for either of them and little coverage is the only thing holding them back. 
 

I don’t really have an opinion on whether they should join the Prem. Probably not. I dunno. 

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9 hours ago, kensei said:

I think you are missing the point. 

Celtic or Rangers in the Championship suddenly have the resources of a major Championship club - on top of the TV Revenue, gates and merchandise that will probably exceed any others in the Championship. They instantly become more attractive to investors, too. 

 

They wouldn't walk it and it might take a few years. But they'd have the resources to do it with the right manager in place. 

 

The idea that they'd be relegated straight into League One because they are that bad is just mindless. 

 

They wouldn't immediately have the resources to buy a whole new squad, would they? That's what they would need. The difference in standard between the Championship and the SPL is huge. On top of this, they would need to immediately get used to playing more than four competitive fixtures a season.  They'd need to be tactically a lot better as well. Even signing players of the required quality wouldn't be as easy as you are suggesting, because players outside the UK and Ireland wouldn't find them to be any more of a draw than any other Championship club. 

 

I'm not saying that their large fanbase wouldn't help them eventually establish themselves as a competitive force, just that in that first season they would have a hell of a rude awakening.

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Yeah neither now is good enough but they're effectively getting a rich owner bounce without actually having to have the rich owner.  They have the attendance and commercial reach of at last a mid table prem club and eventually that's exactly what they'd be.

 

Good luck seeing European football again any time soon unless they join some kind of super league though.

 

Thinking about it, I'm sure their fans would be absolutely thrilled about travelling as far as Southampton and Norwich for league games every 2nd weekend too.

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1 hour ago, Art Vandelay said:

I think for all the talk of owners wrecking clubs and the structure of football itself, the actual game is already gone in its current state. I mean, what the fuck is this shit? This wasn’t even the action that led to anything, it was the move before an incident. They had to rewind the tape 20 seconds to find it.
 

image.thumb.jpeg.b66f9f063e66bdbda1368b5cd6082438.jpeg

 

We hear talk of the ‘product’ all the time, but the product stinks. I genuinely feel annoyed and sad at the obligation to sit through top-level games now. 


That was the wrong decision to get to the right result though at least. The dive from the Arsenal player was almost as shocking as the offside call.

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I'm glad it was given offside as it was such a poor delayed reaction dive.

 

The VAR lines shown on tv are thicker than the ones used by the official, they get a higher resolution feed and plot pixel wide lines apparently, which are then thickened up to be visible more clearly on tv making them look closer.

 

Not claiming VAR is great and going back that far is sensible etc, just that what we see isn't what they do. 

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Doesn't change that if they're running at 60fps, they can draw the thinnest lines they like but they're doing in on something that's an average of 6 inches wrong.

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Just now, Dudley said:

Doesn't change that if they're running at 60fps, they can draw the thinnest lines they like but they're doing in on something that's an average of 6 inches wrong.

 

Maybe a season or two back I'd have given a shit, just seems a case of so what now. 

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2 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

I think for all the talk of owners wrecking clubs and the structure of football itself, the actual game is already gone in its current state. I mean, what the fuck is this shit? This wasn’t even the action that led to anything, it was the move before an incident. They had to rewind the tape 20 seconds to find it.
 

image.thumb.jpeg.b66f9f063e66bdbda1368b5cd6082438.jpeg

 

We hear talk of the ‘product’ all the time, but the product stinks. I genuinely feel annoyed and sad at the obligation to sit through top-level games now. 


Handily as an Arsenal fan you don’t need to watch any top level games etc.... 

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Not sure the Arsenal team got the memo that Super League is off, and it does matter now where they finish in the league!!!!!!
 

To even class a team in such a sorry state as one of the untouchable 12 clubs in Europe, tells you everything you need to know about how ludicrous a proposition the ESL actually was.

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43 minutes ago, spork said:


That was the wrong decision to get to the right result though at least. The dive from the Arsenal player was almost as shocking as the offside call.


Well yeah, there is that. It’s funny how it works in football but almost the exact same incident happened in our game last week and we ended up conceding a penalty. That  inconsistency definitely doesn’t help. It was just a wider point about VAR really. I think if they had any understanding of sport outside of their myopic view of striving for absolutely correct decisions at the expense of the actual spectacle of the game they’d drop it this summer and say they were revisiting it at a later date. Then set fire to their VAR caravan and all the video equipment and forget it ever happened.

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According to the commentators on the game last night though the Prem Clubs were asked if they were happy with how VAR was being used for offside decisions, or if the powers that be should look into maybe easing it up for next season such as for instance only taking foot position into account.  The clubs wanted it to stay as is though.

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1 hour ago, Pockets said:


As has been pointed out, you can start them where you like but those two sides are supported by most of Scotland and, by extension, any sectarian country in the world. 
 

In Ireland it’s either Liverpool or Celtic. As someone pointed out, Americans would be all over ‘the Irish team’. Try explaining that they’re Glaswegian to your average American. Boston would watch every game. 
 

I’m less familiar with Rangers’ global support (my dad was a Celtic fan) but I’m sure it’s there. In Britain alone, Rangers would have all the weird flag-waving, Queen-loving Brexity nutjobs. That’s 52% of the country at last count. 
 

Celtic represent Catholicism to a lot of the world. Rangers represent Protestants to others. Sadly, that’s still a big deal. 

The fact that they’re in a shit league with no competition for either of them and little coverage is the only thing holding them back. 
 

I don’t really have an opinion on whether they should join the Prem. Probably not. I dunno. 

Some interesting points there, but I think a lot of international fans only tend to support the Premier League big clubs (which essentially means Man Utd, Liverpool and some of the London clubs) already, I'm not sure they would switch allegiances. And I also am not sure that Celtic and Rangers would even be big fish in a much bigger pond.

 

I think you're probably right about those places in the US with large immigrant Irish populations possibly gravitating to Celtic, but I don't think a load of English would suddenly start caring about Rangers because of their Protestant background (nor around the world).

 

Like I said before, it's an interesting thought experiment but nothing more than that because outside of 'we want more money', I can't think of any good sporting reason for it to happen (though I'm not naïve enough to think that sporting reasons have little to do with such decisions these days). 

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