Jump to content

Football Thread 2020/2021


Recommended Posts

Well, it's another game that Ireland didn't really deserve to lose, but as has been generally the case recently, in no way deserved to win. Randolph redeemed himself by denying Brooks a certain goal, and he's not entirely culpable for the goal even if the above post suggests that.

 

I was just thinking that Jack Byrne had showed enough in his short period of play - some nice control and movement, picking good passes, playing a great cross for Collins - and then he goes and plays the errant pass that leads to Hendrick's red card. But I still think he's one of the players who might offer Ireland something they're lacking. Collins was an improvement over Idah whose touch just wasn't there for a lot of the match, and Horgan had a decent start but faded later.

 

Bulgaria on Wednesday doesn't need to be won in raw results terms - a draw is sufficient to avoid relegation - but the team really do need a result. It'd be nice to have players like Egan, Coleman, Robinson, Connolly and Browne available but their absence is really more showing the lack of depth of talent available - a problem that's also meant the U21s have lost a great chance to qualify for their first tournament as well.

 

It's not fun being an Irish fan at the moment. At least there's always the GAA.

 

*sees Down lose despite leading by 8 points at half-time*

 

Well fuck that too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Think it just shows the limitations we have at the back and that Southgate continues to be a safety first manager. Under him we’ll beat some decent teams with functional, counter attacking displays but I can’t see us playing flowing attacking football. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Fry Crayola said:

Bulgaria on Wednesday doesn't need to be won in raw results terms - a draw is sufficient to avoid relegation - but the team really do need a result.

 

Given the weird way Euro qualification works, I'm not certain relegation would be an entirely bad thing and really deserved given performance levels. At least we might avoid playing Wales again. 

 

I think the Irish press are at the turn. IT still supportive, but mutterings in the other papers. A loss or nil nil on Wednesday and I think the pressure going into the WC qualifier will be immense. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

I remain in the "fuck the press" camp.

 

Regardless of what you think of them, their attitude is going to have a big say in how long Kenny gets. 

 

I think he should be given to the end of the WC campaign to try and shape his style, but we seriously need a goal on Wednesday. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, kensei said:

 

Regardless of what you think of them, their attitude is going to have a big say in how long Kenny gets. 

 

I think he should be given to the end of the WC campaign to try and shape his style, but we seriously need a goal on Wednesday. 

 

He'll be given the campaign. But also, there needs to be massive recognition that things wouldn't be any better with this lot playing the regressive nonsense that's characterised the last eight years or so. They'd still be facing a relegation decider, the only difference is those same hacks would be clamouring for Kenny to be given the reins instead of the door.

 

This is the worst Irish panel since before Jack Charlton's era, at the very least, and the FAI need to be looking at why that is - they can't rely on teenagers going over to England like they used to. The domestic game needs their attention more than ever if they want to avoid a slide into mediocrity.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Dudley said:

When is football back?

 

we can start moaning about diving and dodgy VAR calls this weekend when the teams all field their players that are left uninjured or not isolating with the pox having travelled the globe this week.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

 

He'll be given the campaign. But also, there needs to be massive recognition that things wouldn't be any better with this lot playing the regressive nonsense that's characterised the last eight years or so. They'd still be facing a relegation decider, the only difference is those same hacks would be clamouring for Kenny to be given the reins instead of the door.

 

This is the worst Irish panel since before Jack Charlton's era, at the very least, and the FAI need to be looking at why that is - they can't rely on teenagers going over to England like they used to. The domestic game needs their attention more than ever if they want to avoid a slide into mediocrity.

 

We qualified for the Euros in 2012 and 2016, made the playoffs for the WC in 2018 and blew a few golden chances at 2020 qualification despite the same dire panel. There have also been signs of life in the under 21s. 

 

There are styles of football between the sort of passing game Kenny wants us to play and hoofball. NI have been successful with a more counterattacking style.

 

If you haven't got the players, you haven't got the players and I'm not certain Bielsa could get the current panel playing without the dedicated time he gets at club level. Sometimes you have to cut your cloth to suit. Jury's out. Really want to be wrong. 

 

But Kenny might have been better at under 21 or some sort of director of football role building the long term foundations we need. Worst case is that this is a disaster and we end up with nothing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what the FAI can realistically do to improve the national team anytime soon. For the next few years its going to be a desperate firefighting job just to keep the organisation going and trying to start generating enough money to actually start investing in the game again and not just playing politics to shore up their support base.  I'd love to see the likes of Brian Kerr brought back in to come up with a good youth development plan but the brand is still so toxic its hard to see how they could even dream of implementing ambitious strategies. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The game last week had Ireland trying to build everything through Jeff Hendrick. I like Jeff Hendrick. I’ve defended him a lot from the less enlightened aspects of the Claret and Blue faithful.

 

You cannot build everything through Jeff Hendrick.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Euro qualification squads had a far better team than available now. 2012 still had Duff, Dunne and Given in the side, all still around from the glory days of 2002. In 2016 they still were able to call on Robbie Keane and John O'Shea and did fantastically against Germany, but also laboured to a wins over Georgia and needed their win over Scotland as well as the expanded final tournament to even be in the reckoning. That's something that also needs to be considered. The bar is lower than it used to be.

 

Other campaigns ending in playoff defeats - 2018 was a poor group overall with Ireland labouring against Georgia before the crushing defeat to Denmark that, if nothing else, was a favour, while qualification to the 2020 playoffs was so reliant on their having been placed in League B of the Nations League, the only way they could have avoided it was to qualify automatically instead. Performances under McCarthy were generally better, but the team still found themselves being outplayed by Georgia and were never in the hunt for that automatic spot.

 

You often point to Northern Ireland, and their recent success is well deserved. They also have an aging team that are in need of an overhaul, and I doubt we'll see them continue to turn over stronger opponents over the coming years. I hope I'm wrong, but they have an even smaller pool of players available than the Republic.

 

On your last point - if the worst case is we end up with nothing, then we've also lost nothing. Kenny didn't inherit a golden age, he was brought in at a nadir. If he's the wrong man, he's the wrong man, but there's enough mitigating circumstances to make any sharpening of knives at this stage a foolish knee-jerk.

 

Which is not a good thing to be doing if you're sharpening knives.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Fry Crayola I think NI's golden period has likely passed. But that isn't the point. The point is that they did it with substantially more limited resources than the Republic has available still, they did not do it trying to play tiki taka and while they weren't exactly a beautiful team, they weren't horrific on the eye. I also think you are selling the last ten years short. Qualification is always hard for Ireland. 

 

There is a persistent myth around Irish sides that they should magically be playing better football than they have been - right back to Charlton. Good but not world beating players are presented as the answer. It's never been positive for the team.

 

I disagree we'll lose nothing. We lose the chance to invest in the next generation where it might make a difference and there'll be a huge knock to the idea we can play anything but physical football. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you're being a bit disingenious on Kenny's style - he's not trying to play tiki-taka. He's trying to play a game in which players are not told that they should fear the ball, that they should get it far and away from the defence, that they should be finding the channels and hoping to pick up loose balls knocked down by large strikers, all the while conceding possession and being outplayed by teams who aren't stuck in the past.

 

To call Ireland "not horrific on the eye" for anything from the Trapattoni era onwards, with a few exceptional matches, is wilful ignorance. Ireland haven't been any good to watch since Mick's first spell in charge. Kerr was too cautious with a talented squad, Staunton was a farce, and neither Trap nor O'Neill gave the team any confience that they could do anything other than spoil. Every now and then a performance like that in France in 2009, or the win over Italy at Euro 2016, came along to give a false sense of hope, but those came off the back of some truly awful football, and I feel were only the result of needing to actually go out and get one.

 

None of which is to say that the games so far have not presented concerns. Possession without an end result, or even a string of genuine chances, is not a system that can win football matches. The first half yesterday was a generally boring affair that suggested little other than a 0-0. The England match was a total failure. The only game I can say they really deserved to get a win from was the Slovakia match, and even then it took until late in the second half to really impose themselves and start creating, and that feels very familiar - an Ireland side who don't really play until they need to.

 

Too often, it appears there just aren't options to advance, and they play back to the defence. Recycling the ball is all well and good, but then they advance a bit before playing it back, or playing it in to a lone striker who isn't yet good enough to play that role at this level. I think McGoldrick's retirement is a blow as he does that job very well. It may be worth ditching the three up front as the wide men are lacking targets in or around the box to aim for.

Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

So, it's happening. Approved by 98% by the Supporters Trust

 

I see a lot of those trailers around these parts, but never expected to see them advertising them.

 

There you go, Ryan Reynolds said he was going to turn us into a "global force" and only half an hour after becoming our owners-elect we're promoted to the main Rllmuk football thread. 

 

 I'm apprehensive, but obviously massively excited too. Like my Amazon PS5 pre-order times a gazillion. Should be a wild ride.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Pants McSkill said:

The Press: It's a disgrace Southgate won't use a system to make the most of Grealish.

*Southgate builds system that allows Grealish freedom in his best role. England lose 2-0.*

The Press: Well that was a dreadful idea Southgate out we OBVIOUSLY have to play 433

 

Did Southgate change his system all that much? Still a 3-4-3, we were mirroring Belgium's formation but Southgate is wedded to it. I'm not a fan myself, I think the logic goes that 3-4-3 helps against an aggressive press as you can outnumber the pressers quite easily but do organised and aggressive presses exist at International Level where managers get such little time with players?  If they don't then you've basically got a centre half marking nobody and you lose a man in midfield.  Last night Walker did push forward quite a lot and Belgium stepped off after the early goal(s) so we could play a high line and we bossed the game.  I'm not sure the criticisms over the lack of searing pace in the team hold too much water when the opposition don't need to come out force the issue either. Yeah England are out of the Nations League but I'll take quite a bit from the performance, undone by a couple of goals which wouldn't go in on other days, strikes me as a "we'll play worse than that and win" kind of affair. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fatsam said:

 

There you go, Ryan Reynolds said he was going to turn us into a "global force" and only half an hour after becoming our owners-elect we're promoted to the main Rllmuk football thread. 

 

 I'm apprehensive, but obviously massively excited too. Like my Amazon PS5 pre-order times a gazillion. Should be a wild ride.

 

I thought they were keeping things low key and saying the right things to fans. Wrexham as a "global force" is abit worrying. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Naysonymous said:

 

Did Southgate change his system all that much? Still a 3-4-3, we were mirroring Belgium's formation but Southgate is wedded to it. I'm not a fan myself, I think the logic goes that 3-4-3 helps against an aggressive press as you can outnumber the pressers quite easily but do organised and aggressive presses exist at International Level where managers get such little time with players?  If they don't then you've basically got a centre half marking nobody and you lose a man in midfield.  Last night Walker did push forward quite a lot and Belgium stepped off after the early goal(s) so we could play a high line and we bossed the game.  I'm not sure the criticisms over the lack of searing pace in the team hold too much water when the opposition don't need to come out force the issue either. Yeah England are out of the Nations League but I'll take quite a bit from the performance, undone by a couple of goals which wouldn't go in on other days, strikes me as a "we'll play worse than that and win" kind of affair. 

 

 

Southgate's formation against difficult sides is a 5-3-2, or 5-2-3. 
We don't play difficult sides often, and he's been hamstrung by injuries when we do, so it's tough to say what his favourite system/XI is.

In the first instance, the midfield three often having the classic trio of ball-winner, runner and playmaker (Rice, Ox, Henderson for example).

In the second, we play an all rounder and runner (Henderson & Ox would be an example), but the favoured front three are Sterling-Kane-Sancho. Two world-class inside forwards and the world's 2nd best striker (don't @ me).

 

Against Belgium, we played a 5-2-2-1, with Mount and Grealish acting as advanced number 10s... Kinda like having 2 Ozil-types behind Kane.

They were tucked narrower and although allowed to drift, offered neither the width nor the goal-scoring penetration of Sancho and Sterling.

 

I hasten to add, that is not a criticism. They are not the same players, but they are both good number 10s and the logic was sound. Belgium allow their midfield to burst forward, which leaves space for two creative players to operate in 'the half spaces'. 

And I concur with you: On another day, the result could have been different. Belgium's two goals were a fluke and a wonder strike, whereas we had a certain goal cleared off the line by Lukaku of all people. And 2-0 away from home, to the number 1 team in the world, while missing some of our best players, in a glorified friendly, during Covid, while everyone is knackered due to condensed schedules... I mean, it's not that bad.

 

The debate will always come down to a back three or a back two. 

Both work for us. Centre back is our weakest position swiftly followed by the GK. So an extra man does offer extra protection.

And one thing our CBs can do is pass well, so they can bring the ball forward to make it tough for the opposition to know whom to cover.
What is missing from the conversation is the formation in attack. Our 523 transitions into a 2-3-5, Maguire or Walker taking it in turns to join the midfield all-rounder and runner, and the Full backs pushing high up to join Sterling-Kane-Sancho.

This is exactly the same shape our 433 takes in attack too, it just transitions differently.

 

So really, it comes down to personnel, injuries, fitness and form which as we all know, are nebulous at best in International football.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Orion said:

 

I thought they were keeping things low key and saying the right things to fans. Wrexham as a "global force" is abit worrying. 

 

I'm not massively worried about them being delusional or ignorant to be honest, although my guess is that they probably don't fully grasp how difficult it is to even get out of the conference. There have been no fanciful promises of promotion to the Premier League. McElhenney, who appears to be the big sports fan and principle driving force behind the takeover, was even a bit hesitant to talk about us winning games in League One which absolutely should be the goal. This is not your typical sugar daddy takeover either, I actually don't see them putting that much of their own money in beyond the initial jump start. A key part of the strategy is to take their story of attempting to turn around the fortunes of a club a bit down on their luck to the world and pump the resources generated by that back into the football club. There will be a documentary series probably on Netflix. Reynolds has plenty of stuff "up his sleeve" to promote the club, just like he promotes his gin brand and his mobile company. Inevitably I think he'll call on his hollywood mates to get in on the action. That's where the global thing comes in. I mean, we were trending 7th worldwide on twitter today, we had Russell Crowe pointing out to Reynolds that his grandad was from Wrexham, and that video has had 2.8 million views. I suspect Ifor Williams won't be able to afford to be our main shirt sponsor next season. Not when Justin Bieber and The Rock are doing our kit launch :lol:

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Fatsam said:

 

I'm not massively worried about them being delusional or ignorant to be honest, although my guess is that they probably don't fully grasp how difficult it is to even get out of the conference. There have been no fanciful promises of promotion to the Premier League. McElhenney, who appears to be the big sports fan and principle driving force behind the takeover, was even a bit hesitant to talk about us winning games in League One which absolutely should be the goal. This is not your typical sugar daddy takeover either, I actually don't see them putting that much of their own money in beyond the initial jump start. A key part of the strategy is to take their story of attempting to turn around the fortunes of a club a bit down on their luck to the world and pump the resources generated by that back into the football club. There will be a documentary series probably on Netflix. Reynolds has plenty of stuff "up his sleeve" to promote the club, just like he promotes his gin brand and his mobile company. Inevitably I think he'll call on his hollywood mates to get in on the action. That's where the global thing comes in. I mean, we were trending 7th worldwide on twitter today, we had Russell Crowe pointing out to Reynolds that his grandad was from Wrexham, and that video has had 2.8 million views. I suspect Ifor Williams won't be able to afford to be our main shirt sponsor next season. Not when Justin Bieber and The Rock are doing our kit launch :lol:

 

 

 

I was reading about what the club had been through the past 20 years with some truly awful chairmen trying to asset strip the club but the fans digging in and fighting them. Hope it goes well for Wrexham, sounds like you all deserve some good luck.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.