Jump to content

Do remakes and remasters make originals pointless?


Recommended Posts

I like arcade PacMan, and play PuckMan set 1, Namco 1980 on Name.  There's the Atari 2600 version of course, with its crap maze, vertical tunnel and 2 ghosts. The game looks like it was written by a coder that had PacMan described to him and had never seen the original.  It was fun at home in 1982 but of course we can now play the arcade original via emulation, or Namco Museum releases.  The point being, if you are playing the games for any reason other than mere nostalgia, having the perfect conversion of the original available to you makes a million clones and ports obsolete. 

 

Likewise in the recent Daytona thread some are asking which is the best version to play, Saturn original, Saturn remake, Japanese, Pal, CCE edition etc.  But I'd suggest that now there's an arcade perfect conversion with online play on 360/PS3 (and XBox One BC) is there any reason to be trying to play conversions from the 90s when the hardware meant you had to be playing a hobbled version? 

 

Are there any examples of games that have been remade /remastered where older versions still have more to offer? Or does the newer release render the originals redundant?

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Are there any examples of games that have been remade /remastered where older versions still have more to offer?

 

"Crappy port".

 

You hear it all the time.

 

Daytona, Switch Virtua Racing, and XBLA Perfect Dark are the three definitive remasters that instantly spring to mind. Mainly because I play them so much.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Fallows said:

 

"Crappy port".

 

You hear it all the time.

 

Daytona, Switch Virtua Racing, and XBLA Perfect Dark are the three definitive remasters that instantly spring to mind. Mainly because I play them so much.

You mean there's fun to be had from playing the port because (even a crappy port) has something different to offer?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dumpster said:

To be clear, I'm asking that when there is a perfect remaster, are there reasons to go back to the inferior ports?

 

Yes, in some cases due to nostalgia. I still go back to Commando on the C64 despite there being arcade perfect ports to play.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, choduk said:

I wouldn't touch the Silent Hill remasters with a barge pole.

 

I heard an interview with one of the people responsible for that. Post his part of the job someone decided it would be a good idea to REMOVE THE FOG. For clarity.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Thor said:

Definitive remasters you say? MGS2 and MGS3. Nothing beats those remasters. 

Pfft. They’ve not got the “slowly release the button to put your weapon down” feature which means you have to hold like 3 buttons at once to do it. 
 

Not a patch on the originals! :blah:

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I heard an interview with one of the people responsible for that. Post his part of the job someone decided it would be a good idea to REMOVE THE FOG. For clarity.

 

Sounds like an improvement

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

Yes, in some cases due to nostalgia. I still go back to Commando on the C64 despite there being arcade perfect ports to play.

Definitely. I have played the arcade version and the newer port for the c64. Both are technically better but I’d prefer to play the original c64 port.

 

also grid runner on the vic20 - the c64 is technically superior but the bigger/differently proportioned grid doesn’t feel as tight as the old vic20 version.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

Yes, in some cases due to nostalgia. I still go back to Commando on the C64 despite there being arcade perfect ports to play.


The C64 version has better music than the arcade. It’s amazing how far ahead that machine was in sound quality at the time.

  • Upvote 2
  • Empathy 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Clipper said:

I prefer the sentinel on the c64 to the PlayStation version - the latter is more advanced but the clunkiness of the c64 version adds to the atmosphere

I never played the PlayStation version. I always wanted to because it was supposed to have a John Carpenter soundtrack.
 

In screenshots it looked a bit over complicated - the original BBC/C64 versions were nice and simple.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm assuming that "perfect" means 1:1 with the best equivalent controller, so it's hard to really go back to originals when the same thing exists. However, there's something about witnessing the original on its host hardware that subconsciously drives home a technical accomplishment harder than it would when you're playing it on your multicore desktop with RTX card and more RAM than you'll ever need. I remember getting into audio conversion software for C64 TAP files so that I could play them on the hardware we had at the time, and because the experience was more "authentic" I appreciated what the games did a little more when compared to loading things up on WinVICE or whatever.

 

The short version is that originals give you more context. It's easier to mentally place an original alongside other games of the time, and so it's easier to recognise the flaws and triumphs. If that makes sense. :wacko:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Speedball2 was remastered for 360 but the original is far superior

 

same goes for swos on 360 arcade


I prefer the gfx on original DOTT as well

 

in fact I think many remasters fall short

Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I don't think the originals are ever pointless. I mean, you step outside of videogames for a moment and every time I hear that a film I liked from the 80's or 90's is getting remade I start to curl up like something out of Uzumaki.

 

But even in terms of videogames, I don't think remakes replace or even really supersede and original - even under ideal conditions and the recreation is perfect, the original object is relevant in it's own right in it's own hardware. A testament to what was created the first time, likely with more limited tools, rather than something being rebuilt to be it. Like, I know jack shit about fine art, and while I'm sure that replicas can be amazing and near perfect, they don't invalidate the original work.

 

What remakes and remasters are fantastic for is opening up old stuff to a new audience who get to experience it - they can make it more accessible, or more convenient, but I still think the original means something separate and distinct. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm probably looking at it with rose-tinted glasses, but I always considered the only, truly proper time an original game was rendered obsolete was Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast.

Even if you argued you could pick up an arcade board and run it through a supergun for an "original" experience, the Dreamcast version was so extensively better and easier to get a hold of that it's become the version in everyone's memory.

Compare and contrast to something like Resi 2 Remake - where again, the game is enhanced to a point where lots of people can consider it to be extensively better, but because the original version is extensively known, played and cherished, people would still be swayed towards the original format.

Also, for the sake of protecting a hobby from companies willing to exploit planned obsolescence for material gain (including digital storefronts that are tied to modern day consoles), we should not consider originals pointless. For every game that's brought back for $40 after palming it off to a coding house in the middle of nowhere, there's hundreds of IPs that are sat on and are likely never going to see the light of day - outside of trademark entries that get places like Resetera in a tizzy, or cease and desist letters from people daring to recreate a game that simply isn't going to happen otherwise.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, dumpster said:

To be clear, I'm asking that when there is a perfect remaster, are there reasons to go back to the inferior ports?

 

Yeah loads. Sometimes they just play a really nice game. Bomb Jack on the Spectrum feels great. Mercs on the Mega Drive has an extra mode with weapon shops and new stages. Super Hang On on the Mega Drive also has an extra mode. Edit: Slap Fight similarly has an extra mode.

 

Edit edit: SF Alpha 3 on PSP has loads of extras including a world tour mode

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Remasters, assuming done properly, yeah they do render the original obsolete (not pointless for historical reasons). For example, there's no reason to play the last gen versions of Black Flag, even the switch version is far superior. I find many remasters cut corners somewhere though, replacing low res textures with high res but artistically ugly ones, or messing up the frame rate. 

 

Remakes, of course not. There's usually significant enough differences to clearly make them a different game.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/08/2020 at 20:11, Clipper said:

Speedball2 was remastered for 360 but the original is far superior

That was quite weird. The PS3 version was a straight port. The 360 version included a straight port, but you had to go into the options and select it, otherwise you would play the weirdly updated version, which was nowhere near as good.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ScouserInExile said:

That was quite weird. The PS3 version was a straight port. The 360 version included a straight port, but you had to go into the options and select it, otherwise you would play the weirdly updated version, which was nowhere near as good.

sorry yes I should have said that the straight port was included - in fact as I recall the remaster was literally flashy gfx on top of the original version engine so just a reskin.

 

However even playing the straight port it wasn't as good as dpad/sticks on modern pad don't match upto a nice clicky microswitch joystick - same as monkeyball only works with the gated 8 way GC controller.

 

oh Super Monkey Ball as well :D

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/08/2020 at 18:14, Thor said:

Definitive remasters you say? MGS2 and MGS3. Nothing beats those remasters. 

 

Although fantastic ports, I don't really think of them as the definitive remasters. Blue Point done great work but essentially took the base game and optimised it to run at 16:9.

 

Shadow of the Colossus, Resident Evil and Soul Calibur are far more impressive remasters in my eyes. Lots or all areas of the game were changed to push newer technology and were far better for it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/08/2020 at 18:02, Fallows said:

Daytona, Switch Virtua Racing, and XBLA Perfect Dark are the three definitive remasters that instantly spring to mind. Mainly because I play them so much.

 

The weird thing about the XBLA version of Perfect Dark is that despite being objectively superior due to the framerate alone, it was never embraced by the GoldenEye and Perfect Dark speedrunning community at the-elite.net. I'm not really sure why. It had a few minor changes that meant that their N64 speedrun strategies weren't viable (like being unable to blow up the safe early in Carrington Institute Defense on Perfect Agent), and it changed the controls so that muscle memory didn't apply, and the switch to analogue controls made it awkward and unreliable to hit the exact diagonal angle for speed-strafing. But I'm not sure why they never made it a third game on their rankings as an alternative to the two N64 games. Instead they unceremoniously shunted the XBLA times off into their Other Games section of their forum, putting it roughly on par with The World is Not Enough:

https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?board=4.0


I asked them once why they never embraced it as a third game on their rankings, and Karl Jobst replied something along the lines of: "We don't care about framerate, the XBLA version has different muscle memory, and LOL your own record times are bad so you would never understand why we, who have put thousands of hours into speedrunning single levels, don't care about the Xbox version."  (Living up to the name "The Elite", there. :()

 

There is a page for the XBLA version on speedrun.com, but it's nowhere near as active as the-elite.net's community for N64 version:

https://www.speedrun.com/perfect_dark_xbla/full_game

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.