Jump to content

Gotham Knights - Oct 2022, Warner Bros. Games Montreal


Nick R
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, JoeK said:


Suicide Squad…the game everybody was crying out for Rocksteady to make next!!!

 

Said no-one. 
 

Ever.

 

I’m sure it’ll be great, mind.

Eh I definitely wanted them to do something that wasn't Batman, they're too talented to be stuck with that. Would have liked something totally original but WB weren't going to do that. Suicide Squad sounds promising.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say, I'm particularly fascinated by the minimum specs listing an RTX 2070, given that Gotham Knights is one of the games Intel are giving away with purchases of their new Arc graphics cards; cards that generally perform just above the level of a 2060. Either it's unusually well optimised for Arc, or they're giving away a game that will make said cards look bad — that'll be fun for them if so!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Wiper said:

I have to say, I'm particularly fascinated by the minimum specs listing an RTX 2070, given that Gotham Knights is one of the games Intel are giving away with purchases of their new Arc graphics cards; cards that generally perform just above the level of a 2060. Either it's unusually well optimised for Arc, or they're giving away a game that will make said cards look bad — that'll be fun for them if so!


A 2070 is recommended rather than minimum (1660 TI is minimum for 60fps 1080p at low settings).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, that's what I get for skimming the thread!

 

(either way it does seem a tiny bit rude that, despite being plastered all over Intel's advertising, in the minimum and recommended specs WB only list the relevant AMD and NVIDIA cards. If I do get the free copy of GK [unclear, as Intel are very vague about which territories it's available in] I'll try it just to see how it performs on the 750)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, JoeK said:


Suicide Squad…the game everybody was crying out for Rocksteady to make next!!!

 

Said no-one. 
 

Ever.

 

I’m sure it’ll be great, mind.


Completely agree. There were obviously license issues with what was available to them but the game itself is likely to be excellent. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say as a luddite I always felt RT was a bit emperor's new clothes. Like that shot at the top of the thread.. ooh the lighting is correct! Never mind it looks worse. Doubtless for UE5 games that push for photorealism it'll be essential, but for neon soaked nighttime environments it seems an unnecessary extravagance. Certainly I would never pick RT over 60FPS.

 

One interesting thing about this game - despite the grind, there are no microtransactions! Which is good and all but I wonder if they were taken out, or this loot/craft grind just put it as a means of artificially extending play time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, SozzlyJoe said:

Certainly I would never pick RT over 60FPS.

 

 

Ray Tracing looks great, and I'm sure that it actually saves graphics teams working on games time when putting together scenes because the light is realistic so they need to spend less time "designing" it. But 60fps also looks great, and more importantly it feels great and it's this combination that keeps it at the top* of the Totem Pole.

 

The problem with graphics generally is that you sort of get used to them. I admired the reflections in Control once, maybe twice - but like all the cleverness it just fades into the background after a while and you stop seeing it for the most part. In the same way that I can boot up the original Deus Ex and pull a weird face when I realise the character models are, like, 6 polygons total - but give me 15 minutes with it and I won't notice that either. Extreme example of course because Deus Ex is one of the greatest games of all time, but you take my point.

 

I guess if I was going to be fair I could say that when you're playing 30fps you do sort of get used to that as well - but if that's got any chance of happening it needs to be an absolutely perfect, rock solid, frame-paced 30 otherwise it'll be in your face forever - and it sounds as though Gotham Knights has fucked that up too.

 

*Bottom, yes, I know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there's a lot to that, getting used to things. Also I think the fake effects have gotten to be so well done it is hard to see a big leap when it comes to the real thing. But it's a good point that having real lighting saves the devs time. And it is true, I know I could get used to 30fps as just about every game I played last gen was - just wouldn't choose it if I had the option. In truth, having performance/quality/fidelity modes causes me some small amount of mental angst. Always some niggling doubt you are playing at the 'wrong' setting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

Do we have any evidence that it saves them time? The existing systems aren't about artists drawing the fake lighting on, are they?


it cuts iteration time because there’s no precomputation of lighting passes during build. And you’re not placing fake lights to make things look “right”.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

Do we have any evidence that it saves them time? The existing systems aren't about artists drawing the fake lighting on, are they?


Digital Foundry did a video on raytracing being added to the last Metro game, and the devs said it cuts time. Skip to 23min…


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/10/2022 at 10:44, SozzlyJoe said:

I have to say as a luddite I always felt RT was a bit emperor's new clothes.


During my short time with my Series X, I can’t say I’ve noticed much difference turning RT on. I prefer the higher frame rate.

 

However on PC, thanks to DLSS you can really turn up the effect to crazy levels. Minecraft is, surprisingly, the best example I’ve seen. The RT completely changes the look of the game. It’s completely over-the-top but it’s really impressive. 
 

RT is meant to make things look more realistic, but it’s often too subtle. When it’s turned up to 11 though, it’s insane!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/10/2022 at 10:44, SozzlyJoe said:

I have to say as a luddite I always felt RT was a bit emperor's new clothes. Like that shot at the top of the thread.. ooh the lighting is correct! Never mind it looks worse. Doubtless for UE5 games that push for photorealism it'll be essential, but for neon soaked nighttime environments it seems an unnecessary extravagance. Certainly I would never pick RT over 60FPS.

 

One interesting thing about this game - despite the grind, there are no microtransactions! Which is good and all but I wonder if they were taken out, or this loot/craft grind just put it as a means of artificially extending play time.

 

It seems likely to me that it was meant to be their answer to Avengers and was awkwardly turned into a non-service game when that tanked. Which is why it seems to be a bit of a Billy No Mates of a game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/10/2022 at 11:43, Uncle Mike said:

Do we have any evidence that it saves them time? The existing systems aren't about artists drawing the fake lighting on, are they?

 

That's precisely how all the fake bullshit works, an artist has to time consumingly hand place everything and do that multiple times to get the final desired result. If you replace all of that with real-time computed on the fly systems running live on the hardware, it'll be significantly faster.

 

The only reason people fake stuff is because they can't afford to do it in real-time or maybe in certain cases you want a very specific look that doesn't exist in reality and that a systemic approach to it wouldn't give you naturally. But as mega budget games generally strive for photorealism, RT is naturally the future direction of real-time rendering.

 

The more photorealistic games become, the more the hacks will cost to implement and at some point it'll be cheaper to do them using RT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RT is still so new. It's a strange one - sometimes it looks worse, and it certainly runs a lot worse, but then a scene will be framed just right and catch the light in such a way that it takes your breath away. It's almost never worth the hit to performance at the moment, but it's definitely here to stay I think. Partially it's an issue with being bolted onto games with baked lighting. At some point, we'll see games which are built from the ground up with global RT. Once it starts to feed back into the level design, aesthetic and even mechanics more prominently it will seem less like a PhysX style gimmick. 

 

The thing I'm most excited about is watching it bring new life to old games.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think lighting in games is fascinating and there's a lot of times I seewhat light does in really life that I'd think looked "fake" if it was done in real life.

 

I found it really interesting to learn a lot of original coloured lighting in games would be just a big coloured triangle with clipping turned off essentially :D

I also think there's an odd thing (along with the "getting used to it" thing mentioned) is that often the performance hit currently doesn't immediately seem a good option compared to a lot of the pre-baked stuff we've had for a while now. 

 

But true ray and path traced lighting with multi bounce and all that fancy shit makes everything so much more realistic in a way that is almost difficult to notice because it looks "right" but we're also not really there yet for the majority of games. 

 

I also think that there isn't a game that specifically benefits from it much yet either and perhaps some sort of tomb raider / zelda style RT based bouncing light off mirrors thing is what they need to properly show it off :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The direct comparison between Arkham Knight and Gotham Knights shows how heavily stylized fake lighting can look a million times better than realistic yet drab RT lighting. There needs to be some kind of artistic vision involved either way, even if you're going for realism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are parts of cyberpunk where - with RT turned right up - you get naturalistic effects that would be astonishingly hard to sort out with faked lights: there’s a Chinese temple type thing, being lit by a combination of lamps and a colour shifting walkway (off screen) that particularly springs to mind.

multiply that by the rest of the game, and you’re there for a justification. Even before you get to accurate shadows and no weird changes to the lighting or reflections as things move into or out of screen space.


there’s a weird building in watchdogs London where the reflections stack back on each other, even on surfaces where normally they’d not bother.

 

there’s Minecraft’s transformative use of light.

 

but it’s computationally expensive, the consoles aren’t really up to it - and therefore we’re in this half world where a huge amount of effort still has to go into pre baked lighting and hacks. 
 

eventually it becomes another tool to support art direction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.