Hogwarts Legacy - Not as good as Dog Kid University

[Strafe]

What’s the Dog Kid reference about?

[macosx]

21 minutes ago, Zael said:

 

I'm not sure why you're addressing this to me as I've never brought up your purchase of the game or your relationship with other members of the forum. 

I’m not attacking you. I was trying to be empathetic. In your reply to me you said “I didn't buy the game. The game is a roaring success. Did I fail? “ hence why I said conversely I didn’t see my purchase and the games success a win. That’s all.

[Thor]

6 minutes ago, robdood said:

There's a lot of good / interesting discussion, then someone's like "got some new robes lol" and it just feels weird. It's almost funny. 

 

And don't be daft about the meet! 💛

While I disagree with your approach, I really appreciate you saying that last bit.  

[jonathanhoey]

4 minutes ago, Strafe said:

What’s the Dog Kid reference about?

https://www.thegamer.com/hogwarts-legaxy-throw-people-under-the-bus-childhood-harry-potter-jk-rowling/

[Zael]

1 minute ago, macosx said:

I’m not attacking you. I was trying to be empathetic. In your reply to me you said “I didn't buy the game. The game is a roaring success. Did I fail? “ hence why I said conversely I didn’t see my purchase and the games success a win. That’s all.

 

Sorry that's my bad, I didn't read it in that way at all. For what it's worth I believe you and I'm definitely not someone who will vilify anyone for simply buying a game. 

[Strafe]

55 minutes ago, jonathanhoey said:

https://www.thegamer.com/hogwarts-legaxy-throw-people-under-the-bus-childhood-harry-potter-jk-rowling/

Why is he calling it Dog Kid University, though? Is it’s pun or something?

[fat flatulent git]

PS4 and Bone versions of this have been pushed back to early April.

[dreamylittledream]

23 minutes ago, Strafe said:

Why is he calling it Dog Kid University, though? Is it’s pun or something?

 

Quote

And just like pushing buttons to make a thing move, a large part of my childhood was reading my favorite book series, Dog Kid University. In Dog Kid University, a kid who didn’t know he’s a dog finds out he’s a dog and gets to go to a school for dogs that are kids.

Not exactly subtle

[Strafe]

I know it’s a substitute - clearly - for Hogwarts Legacy I just wondered if it has a second meaning. 

[Graham S]

4 hours ago, macosx said:

Conversely @Zael, I did buy the game but I’m not crowing in its success, but  I don’t regret buying it or playing it all, and it’s absolutely fine that @Darren, @Graham S @bradigor judge me not to be an ally in this regard, but I’ve been here over 20 years so hopefully a purchase of a game doesn’t define me. The latter picked up a gaming chair from me a year or two ago so hopefully even if he feels I’ve not got his back he’s at least got my seat 

Honestly, I don’t really care if someone has played the game, it doesn’t really affect me, and it’s done now, not much point about crying over spilled milk. It would have been a nice thing to have done to have given it a swerve and stuck two fingers up to transphobes everywhere but that’s as far as it goes. Far more important to be decent to trans/nb people, both online and in real life, support their civil rights, and vote out and shut down the bigots. This time it was a polite request to do something small and symbolic. Next time you get the chance to do something it may matter a whole lot more.

[Kryptonian]

2 hours ago, dreamylittledream said:

Given the manner they were treated I’d be astonished if it wasn’t down to this thread

 

Can you be specific about this, what happened?

[Lovelyman]

25 minutes ago, Kryptonian said:

 

Can you be specific about this, what happened?

They were challenged on their I’m alright jack ideology i guess

[dreamylittledream]

55 minutes ago, Kryptonian said:

 

Can you be specific about this, what happened?

The posts are leading up to and around this one but this was the straw that broke the camels back as several posters were celebrating a female streamer being reduced to tears for the crime of streaming the game.
 

Quote

I’ve watched Zepla for years and I feel you are doing her a disservice here. 
 

Her point about Spotify was personal. To her. She was saying that she is perfectly capable of separating the art from the artist and used Spotify as one example of that. She loves Pink Floyd - but Roger Walters is pro the Ukraine invasion and a massive turd. Ukraine was her home. She had to flee in the middle of the night leaving her home, her friends, her belongings, her life.  Yet she still listens to Pink Floyd. On Spotify. 
 

She was saying that it’s her choice where she draws the line in her separation with her money. When she opts to go to Burger King and choose vegan options - she accepts that her money is going to be used for things she ethically feels is wrong. 
 

She is reacting to the “tut tut shaking my head, I thought you of all people, a survivor of war, would be better than this, turns out you are just a massive bigot” and likens it to the behaviours of an emotional, manipulative abuser. Of which she is a survivor. 
 

But yeah, sure, we can go with what you said as it makes her sound more vile. As do the posts in off topic about the people in this thread. 
 

I’ve tried to be respectful to the emotions running high in this thread, and the threads in off topic but it’s incredibly difficult when every other day we are accused of being a horrible vile cunt, selfish, supporting genocide, supporting child murders, have the empathy of a turd, uncaring and effectively put on a hit list of posters that bought this game. It’s gross. I have never defended my purchase of the game, but I haven’t made a single antagonist post or gleefully gloated about how well the game is doing because it’s not about that for me.  “Oh but we didn’t mean you when we said…!” Except you did. I’m a poster in this thread, I bought the game, and it’s okay for people to think less of me for that, but it’s absolutely hateful and gross that on one hand we are saying “it doesn’t automatically make you a bad person” and on the other “those selfish, uncaring, genocide supporting, vile cunts”. 
 

You do you, Rllmuk. I’m out.  

This was the considered response from @ChewMagma

 

Quote

People realise they aren't obliged to come here and announce they have bought the game right? You can play it quietly at home and no one will be any the wiser. We won't have to be mortified for you, you can enrich the arch transphobe in peace, and we can all go on with our lives.

Classy behaviour all round I’m sure you’ll agree

 

29 minutes ago, Lovelyman said:

They were challenged on their I’m alright jack ideology i guess

My default response to this being rllmuk would be to refer to a sexual expletive followed by a misogynistic term but as that would get me banned you can use your imagination.

 

The degree of self righteous indignation displayed by some in here on what is a personal matter on whether or not to play a game because of the dubious views of the original author that have no real context in the work of fiction she created which has massive cultural significance in its own right or the game that’s been licenced from is quite breathtaking really.

 

There’s no issue with people explaining their problems with Rowling and why they won’t be going near the game.  
 

Its the attempt to paint others making a different decision as morally barren however which is out of order.

[Kryptonian]

54 minutes ago, dreamylittledream said:

This was the considered response from @ChewMagma

 

They did go on to say this though at least: "Well I apologise to @Rikku, it wasn't specifically targeted at them but really a general response after skimming through the last few pages. I can see how it could be taken as a personal attack though, so thank you for pointing it out."

 

 

54 minutes ago, dreamylittledream said:

several posters were celebrating a female streamer being reduced to tears for the crime of streaming the game.

 

I went back to where the link to the streamers video was posted - here - but can't find the celebratory posts, can you say who made them?

 

I'm sad to see Rikku leave, if there's abuse that led to it it needs to be looked into.

 

[dreamylittledream]

12 minutes ago, Kryptonian said:

 

They did go on to say this though at least: "Well I apologise to @Rikku, it wasn't specifically targeted at them but really a general response after skimming through the last few pages. I can see how it could be taken as a personal attack though, so thank you for pointing it out."

 

 

 

I went back to where the link to the streamers video was posted - here - but can't find the celebratory posts, can you say who made them?

 

I'm sad to see Rikku leave, if there's abuse that led to it it needs to be looked into.

 

 

Contextually I think she's referring to these posts - she quotes the first one.  The video needs to be watched also in context to the posts.

 

This followed earlier posts discussing a witch hunt on people's friends lists for those who are playing the game (I believe there was an app to do this briefly?)

 

On 14/02/2023 at 14:52, fragglerock said:

 

I had a gifted sub to her, had to work out how to hand it back.

Got blocked for posting the trans love thing.

 

The thing that she does (and has been done here) is SHOULD WE NOT SUPPORT SPOTIFY (due to right wing podcasts)! well yeh I stopped my decade long sub... SHOULD WE NOT DRIVE?! well yeh I don't have a car DON'T WE HAVE IPHONES!! I have a 'fariphone' which though not squeaky clean does its best.

 

Also the feeling that they have 'earned' some kind of allyship from previously being nice (or whatever) means they can 'spend' this goodwill on doing a slightly off thing. That ain't how it works!

 

People make choices and live in society, but if asked to make some slight change or forgo some slight pleasure they really cannot handle it.

 

 

On 14/02/2023 at 14:56, Zael said:

Playing the game is whatever, making dumb excuses to play it guilt free isn't great. But man, turning this false victimhood into content takes the cake. 

 

On 14/02/2023 at 14:57, Flub said:

She must be very intelligent

 

Was it  intentional specific abuse just at @Rikku?  No I don't think it it was (although I think the references in Off Topic refers to a poster who made an apology on the previous page, but again its the oh I didn't mean you thing) - but it points to the general barbs being thrown against anyone not choosing to boycott  and attempt to discuss the game, in a thread in the gaming section of a gaming forum, and its understandable why she took it that way.

[fragglerock]

I have not been commenting in this thread as others are far more eloquent and closer to the issues than I am.

 

I have been quoted directly and I don't feel anything I said was out of line.

 

I have attempted to write things that won't come across as attacks but I cannot and fall back to quote myself people see themselves as allies and when

Quote

asked to make some slight change or forgo some slight pleasure they really cannot handle it.

The cognitive dissonance from believing themselves good and allies is laid bare by being unable to do some small inconsequential (it seems) thing.

What trust can our LGBTQ+ friends and family have that people will stand up for them in a situation that is not so inconsequential.

[Zael]

4 hours ago, dreamylittledream said:

 

Contextually I think she's referring to these posts - she quotes the first one.  The video needs to be watched also in context to the posts.

 

This followed earlier posts discussing a witch hunt on people's friends lists for those who are playing the game (I believe there was an app to do this briefly?)

 

 

 

 

Was it  intentional specific abuse just at @Rikku?  No I don't think it it was (although I think the references in Off Topic refers to a poster who made an apology on the previous page, but again its the oh I didn't mean you thing) - but it points to the general barbs being thrown against anyone not choosing to boycott  and attempt to discuss the game, in a thread in the gaming section of a gaming forum, and its understandable why she took it that way.

 

I'm sorry did you just use a comment I made about Zepla in a response to a question  about how Rikku was treated?

[BadgerFarmer]

13 hours ago, thesnwmn said:

The more I reflect on it the more I think the worst thing about any of the comments about the way people post is that they result in more discussion about how to post than raising the actual issues or discussing the game. Probably 25% of this thread is about how we post. Which obscures the meat of the discussion for all.

 

Which of course this post is part of too 🤦‍♂️

It's likely a much higher percentage than that, honestly. I feel like this thread could work, if everyone actually ignored the parts of the discussion they didn't want to engage with, rather than commenting on their appropriateness. 

[NickC]

6 hours ago, fragglerock said:

 

The cognitive dissonance from believing themselves good and allies is laid bare by being unable to do some small inconsequential (it seems) thing.

 

What trust can our LGBTQ+ friends and family have that people will stand up for them in a situation that is not so inconsequential.

 

I agree with much this. It is a small sacrifice to show solidarity. That's the position I chose, having had a love for the books when I was younger and also a love of games now.

 

But I would also point out that some of the more judgemental and personal snipes in this thread are from people that have made close to zero comments at rllmuk elsewhere about trans rights. We have a thread in OT that been running for the last 5 years or so, and many of the people commenting here have been active there but some most definitely have not. Hogwarts Legacy is something symbolic but it hasn't appeared out of nowhere.

 

And before someone gets the wrong idea about what I'm saying, there is a world of difference between the people here that have carefully explained their thoughts and sought to change minds, and those who are getting a quick and easy dig in on the side of righteousness.

 

On the one hand I am pleased that these people with a newfound zeal for trans rights are providing comfort to those who are affected by the growing wave of bigotry trans people are experiencing. But I can also see how the weight of passive aggressive comments here might feel pretty hard to take when some of the more pointed ones are coming from members who are choosing Hogwarts Legacy - and the accompanying well-reasoned arguments from long-standing and respected posters here - as the moment to get vocal and personal about other people's decision to play the game.

[dreamylittledream]

2 hours ago, Zael said:

 

I'm sorry did you just use a comment I made about Zepla in a response to a question  about how Rikku was treated?

You didn’t read the question I answered did you?

[Zael]

5 minutes ago, dreamylittledream said:

You didn’t read the question I answered did you?

 

"I'm sad to see Rikku leave, if there's abuse that led to it it needs to be looked into."

 

This was the last line written by a mod before you quoted what I said. I do agree with some others here when they said the last few posts have just been bickering and I'm for sure part of the problem there, so I'm not gonna continue this. But fuck off trying to include me in this weird drama you're trying to stir up. 

[dreamylittledream]

2 minutes ago, Zael said:

 

"I'm sad to see Rikku leave, if there's abuse that led to it it needs to be looked into."

 

This was the last line written by a mod before you quoted what I said. I do agree with some others here when they said the last few posts have just been bickering and I'm for sure part of the problem there, so I'm not gonna continue this. But fuck off trying to include me in this weird drama you're trying to stir up. 

I was replying to the specific question immediately above that paragraph.
 

To avoid any doubt the quote is in relation to your response to a video where a woman is reduced to tears from the toxic reaction to her streaming a game, not anything you did or did not say in relation to Rikku.

 

Rikku’s final post suggests this was the final straw for her.

 

[NickC]

Taking a brief tangent but on the subject of solidarity with the trans community, if you haven’t yet added your preferred pronouns to your rllmuk profile, please consider doing so soon. Sharing your pronouns helps normalise the importance of using correct pronouns and promotes an inclusive environment. The potential to be misgendered may not be something that is a big deal to you, but the more people that share their pronouns the less people will be singled out and harassed for doing it. 

[Captain Kelsten]

Both Rikku and Nate Wind have chosen to leave the forum due to the behaviour in this and other threads, as pointed out in her last post. 

[bradigor]

I'm lost now. What have we done to force NateWind to leave? I'm still not sure I see the abuse we aimed at Rikku either. 

 

I fear I can't read the tone of things again. 

[Festoon]

3 minutes ago, bradigor said:

I'm lost now. What have we done to force NateWind to leave? I'm still not sure I see the abuse we aimed at Rikku either. 

 

I fear I can't read the tone of things again. 

 

Likewise. I aimed abuse at nobody.  There's a general tone of strawdogging, I fear. It's awful if someone feels they were victimised and attacked verbally, but I think this is best tacked with the person that actually did it.

 

It feels massively ironic to tar a whole group of people with a behaviour when decrying associating a whole group of people with a behaviour.

[RubberJohnny]

Incredible that people said on the last few pages said there was no abuse, the harassment directed at streamers and so on wasn't relevant here, then it's brought up that the example of someone brought to tears on stream was brought up in this thread, the thread consensus was "fuck 'em/abuse is justified" and that multiple members have essentially been harassed off the forum here by maybe raising their head above the parapet to protest it was a bit much.

 

And a committee member on the previous page essentially saying that attacking people after they post they're enjoying the game is the whole point of the thread (and then gaslighting that actually it's their own internalised guilt that's making them feel bad, rather than all of the follow up posts attacking them), which completely puts paid to the idea that this is anything about solidarity, or about JK Rowling, it's just about people being abusive and feeling they're the good guys by spinning a line of self-serving bullshit.

[bradigor]

I'm done... sorry.

[Unofficial Who]

8 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

Incredible that people said on the last few pages said there was no abuse, the harassment directed at streamers and so on wasn't relevant here, then it's brought up that the example of someone brought to tears on stream was brought up in this thread, the thread consensus was "fuck 'em/abuse is justified" and that multiple members have essentially been harassed off the forum here by maybe raising their head above the parapet to protest it was a bit much.

 

And a committee member on the previous page essentially saying that attacking people after they post they're enjoying the game is the whole point of the thread (and then gaslighting that actually it's their own internalised guilt that's making them feel back, rather than all of the follow up posts attacking them), which completely puts paid to the idea that this is anything about solidarity, or about JK Rowling, it's just about people being abusive and feeling they're the good guys by spinning a line of self-serving bullshit.

 

Since a sequel is all but guaranteed how can this be avoided next time. And what can be done in this thread to mitigate the damage you've described?

[Clipper]

I'm afraid we don't get to choose how someone reacts to posts on here. Some will look at this thread and see that many posters are simply showing solidarity and indicating that those who buy the game are not allies of trans people. I certainly see it that way, the more emotional outbursts I can see are not targetted at individuals but are made for different reasons. Others will not see it that way, they will see every blunt illthought out one liner as a dig or see it as building a narrative and they will see the thread as hostile because of it. I may not even agree with their interpretation but I can't dictate it.

 

You can say "oh we didn't mean you" until the cows come home but to some people they see it aimed at them even if indirectly as they feel like they are in the same "lump" as the rest.

 

I wont name posters or even anonymise posts as I have been called out for that before. But one decrying people enjoying the game after the death of Brianna Ghey for instance.. That is too broad an attack and feels like it is aimed at every single person who bought and played the game. There were other such broad attacks or blunt oneliners but I'm not going to list them all or hunt them out.

 

Another poster posted about those who worked on the game and said well yknow you choose to work for them so you need to own that. Which is a fair point but as was pointed out if there are limitations then you take what job you can get.  The response was about edge cases and empathy but the damage is done.

 

We don't get to say how people should react to more blunt posts and posts that seem to apply to them and before making these posts in sensitive areas we need to think more. I know I think way more before I click post than I used to.

 

And finally it isn't about individuals tarring everyone it is simply saying that as a result of certain posts they don't feel comfortable here anymore. Yes we can argue til the cows come home that we should be able to talk this out but at the end of the day this is just a forum and I know that if I didn't feel comfortable here I would just leave.

 

Now I am aware that many in this thread do not see their contributions as being like the above and are upset at the loss of two longterm members of the forum...  and so I'll just say that I didn't mean you (winky smily),  there are many contributions to this thread that are thoughtful and empowering and insightful and we should embrace them all.