Hogwarts Legacy - Not as good as Dog Kid University

[thesnwmn]

3 minutes ago, Uzi said:

Ew who goes on neogaf

 

fat flatulent gits

[Zael]

15 minutes ago, macosx said:

I am truly amazed that people have made their views on Jk Rowling and their views on boycotting the game / not purchasing multiple times yet still are in the thread trolling the shit out of a game that is not yet released, has no direct input on story from JKR and has an inclusive character creation scheme made by the good folk at Avalanche who made Disney infinity ffs. Very strange times.

 

Opinions have been shared, points and values clearly made yet still it continues. Do they hang around libraries and Waterstones / Universal theme parks haranguing innocent children and families.

 

Thread is an embarrassment.

 

55 gig patch on launch on Xbox seemingly

 

I think the most embarrassing thing was you coming in a few days ago trying to question whether or not JKR was actually anti trans. 

[thesnwmn]

And here we go again.

[Rex Grossman]

4 minutes ago, Clipper said:

As the game discussion at the moment seems to consist of such scintillating subjects as "how big is the day 1 patch" I can see why the chat might turn towards a more wideranging topic regarding the transphobic elements.

The game itself seems rather trans-inclusive however.

[Clipper]

3 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

The game itself seems rather trans-inclusive however.

And the creator of the IP is anti-trans* so you can see why this might raise discussion and heartfelt contributions from those directly affected by trans issues.

 

 

* I am aware that some contributors to this thread might wish to "just ask questions" about this as to if she is or not but let's not do that merry-go-round again.

[g wings]

18 minutes ago, Clipper said:

As the game discussion at the moment seems to consist of such scintillating subjects as "how big is the day 1 patch" I can see why the chat might turn towards a more wideranging topic regarding the transphobic elements. Once the game is out, if it is any good, then the "game chat" is likely to become dominant but I imagine those boycotting the game may well occasionally pipe up especially if certain triggers are mentioned.

 

Saying the thread is an embarrassment is uncalled for when the people who are discussing this are directly affected by transphobia. It seems a little meanspirited at best.

That’s bullshit though. All game threads would be the same pre-release if they were constantly being bombarded with off-topic messages. There is no opportunity to actually build a conversation about the game.

 

I get that JKR is awful but if the best people can do to combat that is to post the same stuff again and again on a niche forum then god help us. Go and use the time to actually make a difference.

[Rex Grossman]

6 minutes ago, Clipper said:

And the creator of the IP is anti-trans* so you can see why this might raise discussion and heartfelt contributions from those directly affected by trans issues.

 

 

* I am aware that some contributors to this thread might wish to "just ask questions" about this as to if she is or not but let's not do that merry-go-round again.

Oh I know, just that it’s in contrast to the creator of the original IP.

[Clipper]

3 minutes ago, g wings said:

That’s bullshit though. All game threads would be the same pre-release if they were constantly being bombarded with off-topic messages.

 

I get that JKR is awful but if the best people can do to combat that is to post the same stuff again and again on a niche forum then god help us. Go and use the time to actually make a difference.

you realise that risks  sounding pretty insulting to people who are directly affected by trans issues that are commenting here?

 

They obviously think there is a point to them posting here. The posters affected are not ones who are usually edgelords or trolls or derail threads. They are among some of our more thoughtful posters on the most part. If their names appear in a thread I usually pay attention to what they are saying.

[Zael]

10 minutes ago, g wings said:

That’s bullshit though. All game threads would be the same pre-release if they were constantly being bombarded with off-topic messages. There is no opportunity to actually build a conversation about the game.

 

I get that JKR is awful but if the best people can do to combat that is to post the same stuff again and again on a niche forum then god help us. Go and use the time to actually make a difference.

 

That's such a loaded comment. Rllmuk is an internet page designed specifically for people to talk to each other, you get that right? Whenever I criticize the manager of my football team I'm not told to go and manage my own team. When I complain about how I don't like how the shooting feels in a video game, I'm not told to go make my own game. Because people understand that Rllmuk is a place to discuss topics and that you can do that and go live your life at the same time. 

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

She wrote a fucking hate manifesto. It's her IP. Any sale lines her pockets.

 

Yes, I'd quite like to play this. Flying around on a broomstick questing shit up in a quaint little world is my kind of therapy in a world I'm not enjoying so much right now, but I can not with reasonable conscience line the pockets of someone who so brazenly denies the right for lovely human beings to be who they are.

[therearerules]

It's important to realise that most people are unaware of Rowling's transphobia, won't have spent their time reading the thread in off topic, and given the recent news about trans prisoners will say things like "transitioning just to get into a women's prison shouldn't be allowed". These people aren't your enemies, but the gleeful pitchfork grabbing as we get ready to hunt another transphobe whilst using misogynistic language will make them so. It's important to make people aware of this, but it also can't be the only game where we forbid separation of artist and the art.

 

[macosx]

At least we got decades of the whole creation of the game world, all the characters and elements in it, all the books and all the films when the author was the doyen of the book world before her villian arc and now we are left with a game based on an original story created by game devs, predating even the events in the original books and not even by the original author. 

[PaB]

1 hour ago, Unofficial Who said:

Again, might I suggest moving this discussion over to off topic? If only to ease the load on the mods.

For what purpose? Any attempt at a new thread to talk about the game will end up the same as this one. We’ve already seen it happen. Just keep this thread where it is and let people talk about what they want. If you have to filter out and not reply to comments/posters  you don’t want to engage with then just, like , filter it out. 

[g wings]

26 minutes ago, Clipper said:

you realise that risks  sounding pretty insulting to people who are directly affected by trans issues that are commenting here?

 

They obviously think there is a point to them posting here. The posters affected are not ones who are usually edgelords or trolls or derail threads. They are among some of our more thoughtful posters on the most part. If their names appear in a thread I usually pay attention to what they are saying.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Zael said:

 

That's such a loaded comment. Rllmuk is an internet page designed specifically for people to talk to each other, you get that right? Whenever I criticize the manager of my football team I'm not told to go and manage my own team. When I complain about how I don't like how the shooting feels in a video game, I'm not told to go make my own game. Because people understand that Rllmuk is a place to discuss topics and that you can do that and go live your life at the same time. 

 

I’m trying to be honest about what works and what doesn’t. And that comes from twenty years of experience of working on helping people, organisations and government drive change. 
 

I’m proud to say I’ve been part of making meaningful change multiple times in my life. I did so by working with a few likeminded people and enacting change through agreed action. I get that’s not always possible but people can have more impact than repeating themselves to the same tiny audience. Eventually people switch off from the debate. 
 

 

[mikeyl]

Just incessantly and repeatedly denying this game’s right to exist, despite having better things to do and it having minimal impact on you doesn’t sound reasonable at all.

 

and also, lol

 

 

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

Once the game comes out, I'm sure the direction of discussion will change. I'm certainly not going to be coming in here rebutting gameplay discussion with my opinions because what's the point? The transaction is done, and that person has made their decision. 

[Down by Law]

JK Rowling is like, obscenely filthy rich, Mr. Burns rich already. This game isn't a career make or breaker, it's gonna make sweet fuck all difference to her or her viewpoints whether you buy it or not. 

[Zael]

10 minutes ago, g wings said:

 

 

 

I’m trying to be honest about what works and what doesn’t.

 

I’m proud to say I’ve been part of making meaningful change multiple times in my life. I did so by working with a few likeminded people and enacting change through agreed action. I get that’s not always possible but people can have more impact than repeating themselves to the same tiny audience. Eventually people switch off from the debate. 
 

 

 

People can do both things though. You don't see it on Rllmuk because Rllmuk is designed only for conversation. So we can talk about these issues here while also doing all manner of things outside Rllmuk. So when I see people talking about others "having better things to do" it's a bit of a red flag, because you won't see people asking others if they have better things to do when they post say a video of someone petting a cat in the game. 

[BadgerFarmer]

1 hour ago, djbhammer said:

It will make no difference. A game only  chat thread was derailed within mins of being created and has now been shut down. Not sure what the answer is tbh for anyone who wishes to just talk about the game itself.

I think the answer is to just talk about the game itself, if that's what you want to do. Nobody's forced to engage with any aspect of a discussion they don't want to. I mean, half the conversation in this thread seems to be focused on what should be discussed in this thread, like some kind of ironic meta-derail, where you can't talk about the game because you're too busy talking about how you can't talk about the game.

 

Personally, I feel it's impossible (and undesirable) to separate this game from the issues relating to Rowling surrounding it. I don't see any reason why there should be a 'safe space' thread for it, and as a mod I certainly don't want to have to enforce it. Just as those who are protesting the game are ultimately going to have to accept that some people here will be playing it, those playing it are going to have to accept the controversy, and with that the strong feelings that may keep popping up.

 

I would say, however, that detailed discussions of trans issues relating to Rowling would probably be more at home in the trans thread in Off Topic, adding to the conversation that's already there rather than splitting it. But that's a matter of discretion.  

[bradigor]

4 minutes ago, Zael said:

 

People can do both things though. You don't see it on Rllmuk because Rllmuk is designed only for conversation. So we can talk about these issues here while also doing all manner of things outside Rllmuk. So when I see people talking about others "having better things to do" it's a bit of a red flag, because you won't see people asking others if they have better things to do when they post say a video of someone petting a cat in the game. 

 

To be fair, I am blind and medically retired. Kids at school, partner sleeping after night work. I actually have nothing better to do 😛

[Darren]

13 minutes ago, g wings said:

 

 

 

I’m trying to be honest about what works and what doesn’t. And that comes from twenty years of experience of working on helping people, organisations and government drive change. 
 

I’m proud to say I’ve been part of making meaningful change multiple times in my life. I did so by working with a few likeminded people and enacting change through agreed action. I get that’s not always possible but people can have more impact than repeating themselves to the same tiny audience. Eventually people switch off from the debate. 
 

 

You know people can do both, right? And as @Zael said above, this is a discussion forum, it's where we discuss things. That doesn't mean we're not doing real stuff in the real world, and conversely doing (or not doing) real stuff doesn't preclude discussion here.

[mikeyl]

6 minutes ago, Down by Law said:

JK Rowling is like, obscenely filthy rich, Mr. Burns rich already. This game isn't a career make or breaker, it's gonna make sweet fuck all difference to her or her viewpoints whether you buy it or not. 

it does, because when it makes the stratospheric sales that it will do, her and her lil nazi buddies will be using that number as proof that everything she said is cool and fine and that everybody agrees.

[thesnwmn]

1 minute ago, mikeyl said:

it does, because when it makes the stratospheric sales that it will do, her and her lil nazi buddies will be using that number as proof that everything she said is cool and fine and that everybody agrees.

 

We've been told in this thread multiple times by those against JKR that this is exactly what good sales mean. JKR and her evil group don't need to say that. That association was given away and surrendered willingly. /clap

[Unofficial Who]

9 minutes ago, PaB said:

For what purpose? Any attempt at a new thread to talk about the game will end up the same as this one. We’ve already seen it happen. Just keep this thread where it is and let people talk about what they want. If you have to filter out and not reply to comments/posters  you don’t want to engage with then just, like , filter it out. 

 

Because I think there's more room to talk to about adjacent issues in off topic and I think using this thread limits the discussion to an extent. Like we saw in the other short lived thread one discussion moved from JK's views on trans people to the issue of trans women in prison and gender identification and suddenly it's veered into a topic better discussed in the other thread. In part because the focus of that thread is about issues regarding being transgender and / or non-binary and not tied to the question about whether or not it's ok to buy, play and enjoy a knockoff of The Worst Witch. (I kid, I kid.) Because that being the focus seems to be making everyone ultra defensive and willing to believe the worst of each other. I reckon there's more chances of changing minds or at least people understanding either what some people face every day or in understanding and mitigating unfounded fears over in OT.

 

As always ymmv but I think most in this thread have made their mind up. They're either getting this day one and patting all the cats before flying laps around the school before tea time or they're not.

[Darren]

I wonder how people (in general, not aimed at anyone in particular here) would react if JKR had come out as an outspoken racist or homophobe rather than as a transphobe.

 

This isn't a theoretical, abstract discussion for those of us who have, to coin a phrase, trans interests at home.

[g wings]

13 minutes ago, Zael said:

 

People can do both things though. You don't see it on Rllmuk because Rllmuk is designed only for conversation. So we can talk about these issues here while also doing all manner of things outside Rllmuk. So when I see people talking about others "having better things to do" it's a bit of a red flag, because you won't see people asking others if they have better things to do when they post say a video of someone petting the cat in the game. 

But posting a video isn’t asking/expecting/hoping  something of people.

 

You might not like it but repeating the same argument to people who have acknowledged it (whether they agree or not) is proven to be counter-intuitive.

 

No new arguments are being put forward. Rather than repeat the debate put forward a plan that people believe might really enact change. Move beyond protesting on a small forum would be my guidance. FWIW.

 

[Zael]

I'm not buying it because my trans friends have felt things have gotten worse for them since JKR started her bullshit. One of them in particular suffered some pretty vile abuse a few months back off the back of a Harry Potter discussion. I'm boycotting the game to support them. I'm not doing it to stop JKR making money.

 

@g wingsWhy does our discussion on the anti trans side of things have to be policed by you? I'm not stopping you talking about the game, please talk about it. But in return don't tell me what to discuss.

[mikeyl]

2 minutes ago, thesnwmn said:

 

We've been told in this thread multiple times by those against JKR that this is exactly what good sales mean. JKR and her evil group don't need to say that. That association was given away and surrendered willingly. /clap

I don’t think this was surrendered. I think she came up with it herself

[Unofficial Who]

5 minutes ago, Darren said:

I wonder how people (in general, not aimed at anyone in particular here) would react if JKR had come out as an outspoken racist or homophobe rather than as a transphobe.

 

This isn't a theoretical, abstract discussion for those of us who have, to coin a phrase, trans interests at home.

 

I think we had this very conversation when Shadow Complex was released. There was a lot of "yeah, Orson Scott Card is awful in using his dosh to support anti gay marriage causes but not getting Shadow Complex is denying yourself a great game AND unfairly punishing the developers over at Chair."

 

Here's James Stephanie Sterling talking about it 13 years ago.

 

https://www.destructoid.com/should-we-boycott-shadow-complex/

 

Quote

Shadow Complex is an ambitious, impressive XBLA game that was developed by a team of good people who would benefit from your money far more than Orson Scott Card ever would. If you want to boycott it, that is indeed your choice, but the true question for me is this:

Would doing yourself out of a great game just to score an insignificant blow to an insignificant bigot really be worth it?

 

edit I suspect their viewpoint on this may well have shifted in the years since.

Edited February 2 by Unofficial Who

[Kryptonian]

30 minutes ago, mikeyl said:

Just incessantly and repeatedly denying this game’s trans people right to exist, despite having better things to do and it having minimal impact on you doesn’t sound reasonable at all.