Hogwarts Legacy - Not as good as Dog Kid University

[Clipper]

Just now, Rex Grossman said:

I’m not telling people they can’t/shouldn’t hate JKR. I’m saying they shouldn’t call her or other women cunts.

 

I’ll be honest, if I heard/read you saying/posting something racist I’m afraid I would consider you a racist based purely on that. Maybe that’s not fair - I don’t know. But I probably wouldn’t think ‘oh that person using racist language, I should get some context for that’.

I never said that you said the part in bold. Nothing in my post says that. I was saying that the argument in the thread stems from the fact trans people say you can't be an ally of them and buy this game.

 

For clarity I have never knowingly posted anything racist but I said racist things in my youth, 40 years ago. I learnt very quickly that my language was wrong and I was wrong and I apologised to the friend I offended.

 

You referred to a woman as a stupid cunt much more recently than that - If  I judge that bluntly and call you a misogynist then that would be unfair yes? BEcause you are not a misogynist you just used poor language in context.

 

And given your latest post what is the statute of limitation? Can I say I am ally of people who have suffered from racism? Can you be an ally of women despite your past misogyny?

 

 

[Clipper]

5 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

Maybe we should treat everyone with dignity and respect? 

WHat? even tories?

 

I'm out!

[Spacehost]

1 minute ago, Delargey said:

 

Weirdly selective quoting when the top of the post he says that he's going to stop using the word.

 

 

What's weird about it? I wanted to talk about how we don't have to use language with intentional malice to cause harm, it's admirable he's not using it any more but I don't think it's relevant to the point I was making.

[deerokus]

1 hour ago, Rex Grossman said:

So you’d call a woman a cunt to her face?

If they were one probably, but I generally don't talk to cunts.

[Rex Grossman]

5 minutes ago, Clipper said:

I never said that you said the part in bold. Nothing in my post says that. I was saying that the argument in the thread stems from the fact trans people say you can't be an ally of them and buy this game.

 

For clarity I have never knowingly posted anything racist but I said racist things in my youth, 40 years ago. I learnt very quickly that my language was wrong and I was wrong and I apologised to the friend I offended.

 

You referred to a woman as a stupid cunt much more recently than that - If  I judge that bluntly and call you a misogynist then that would be unfair yes? BEcause you are not a misogynist you just used poor language in context.

 

And given your latest post what is the statute of limitation? Can I say I am ally of people who have suffered from racism? Can you be an ally of women despite your past misogyny?

 

 

In that instance - which I don’t remember but I trust you completely on it - I was being a misogynist. I can’t say I wasn’t. It’s horrible. I’m not going to wave it away. 

[Delargey]

4 minutes ago, Spacehost said:

What's weird about it? I wanted to talk about how we don't have to use language with intentional malice to cause harm, it's admirable he's not using it any more but I don't think it's relevant to the point I was making.

 

Oh I thought it was directed at him as a way to persuade him rather than a general discussion.

[Rex Grossman]

3 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

In that instance - which I don’t remember but I trust you completely on it - I was being a misogynist. I can’t say I wasn’t. It’s horrible. I’m not going to wave it away. 

I’ve now looked up when I used the phrase ‘stupid cunt’ about a woman. In turns out it was in reference to a file name that had the person’s name ‘is a silly cunt’. So not actually anywhere near what it seemed like from your post. Thankfully.

 

 

[Clipper]

Just now, Rex Grossman said:

In that instance - which I don’t remember but I trust you completely on it - I was being a misogynist. I can’t say I wasn’t. It’s horrible. I’m not going to wave it away. 

This is now way off topic (but its not like there is any news on the game til the 6th )

 

I think where I draw the distinction is I might accuse you of using misogynistic language but I wouldnt call you a misogynist without more context - i'd tend towards saying you were ignorant by using misogynistic language. Similarly my friend did not think I was a racist (when I apologised to him) he just thought I was ignorant and using racist language as it was something he heard from people every day.

 

I also understand that ignorance is no defence, but we are all learning especially on a forum where our (sometimes youthful and ill thought out) posts for the past 20 years are available warts and all

 

 

[Ry]

20 minutes ago, Spacehost said:

Maybe not misogynist to you and intentionally meant that way, but how it could be received and perceived and the effects it has on others is outside of your control. You know and appreciate that it's also one of the single most misogynistic insults to be used against a woman, and language is only meaningful inasmuch as the person you're talking to interprets it right?

 

You can't just go around on the internet saying whatever whenever and get defensive because you expect everyone else to have somehow understood that you mean something in a specific colloquial potentially non-misogynistic way you have decided. You wouldn't walk up to someone in a pub in London and start talking about how much of a cunt a woman is, right?

 

I don't think I was being that defensive. I was just a bit confused when I was being called a misogynist for using the word when I was in your words "specific colloquial potentially non-misogynistic way you have decided"

 

I said I understand why some people are offended and won't say it when talking about a woman. 

 

Getting the thread back on topic, JK Rowling is a nasty piece of work. And this game looks pish. 

[Rex Grossman]

Just now, Clipper said:

This is now way off topic (but its not like there is any news on the game til the 6th )

 

I think where I draw the distinction is I might accuse you of using misogynistic language but I wouldnt call you a misogynist without more context - i'd tend towards saying you were ignorant by using misogynistic language. Similarly my friend did not think I was a racist (when I apologised to him) he just thought I was ignorant and using racist language as it was something he heard from people every day.

 

I also understand that ignorance is no defence, but we are all learning especially on a forum where our (sometimes youthful and ill thought out) posts for the past 20 years are available warts and all

 

 

But if misogyny is similar to racism, which it is because it’s about impressing a group of people with less power, surely you’d think someone who said something racist was a racist.

But we are really getting into the weeds here. We are our words and actions. If not people wouldn’t be do bothered by JKR.

[Clipper]

6 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

I’ve now looked up when I used the phrase ‘stupid cunt’ about a woman. In turns out it was in reference to a file name that had the person’s name ‘is a silly cunt’. So not actually anywhere near what it seemed like from your post. Thankfully.

 

 

I really didnt want to post the examples as we all have dirty laundry in our forum post past and that is not the point I was making, I have made my points above. take it in the spirit intended or not.

 

2 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

But if misogyny is similar to racism, which it is because it’s about impressing a group of people with less power, surely you’d think someone who said something racist was a racist.

But we are really getting into the weeds here. We are our words and actions. If not people wouldn’t be do bothered by JKR.

So you are a misogynist and I am a racist - seems too easy and black and white.

 

 

I am upsetting myself a bit by posting now due to personal reasons so I will have to bow out now. Apologies.

[Spacehost]

Just now, Delargey said:

 

Oh I thought it was directed at him as a way to persuade him rather than a general discussion.

No, more pointing out the trap people tend to fall into of getting defensive when what they say is taken otherwise than they thought it would be. I've done it myself.

 

So one time I had to leave a party in Glasgow once a minute after arriving, because an exhausting friend of mine had taken to calling everyone a cunt as a supposed term of endearment, and thusly set the birthday girl, who we had never met, into floods of tears by yelling "so you're the cunt whose birthday it is" at her, then proceeded to argue the particulars of the use of the word "cunt" as a term of endearment to the increasingly large mob of irate friends.

[Rex Grossman]

Just now, Clipper said:

I really didnt want to post the examples as we all have dirty laundry in our forum post past and that is not the point I was making, I have made my points above. take it in the spirit intended or not.

 

I am upsetting myself a bit by posting now due to personal reasons so I will have to bow out now. Apologies.

You inadvertently encouraged me to search my username and the phrase ‘stupid cunt’ which is amusing I think. So don’t beat yourself up.

[bradigor]

Hope everything is ok Clipper.

[Spacehost]

2 minutes ago, Ry said:

I don't think I was being that defensive. I was just a bit confused when I was being called a misogynist for using the word when I was in your words "specific colloquial potentially non-misogynistic way you have decided"

I guess my point is, you're not in Scotland, talking to Scottish people, who you expect will know that you will mean it a specific way with a specific intent. You're on the internet speaking to people from wherever, and part of navigating that is knowing and understanding that perhaps most people will take a word the way it's mostly used- as an extremely misogynistic insult.

[b00dles]

Can we have another thread talking about cunts? I want to talk about the 10 years too late game that looks like a shit rip off of various other games over the years but it's probably as amazing as tie fighter and x-wing for a certain generation. 

 

Oh and the original author is a horrible transphobe.

[Ry]

Just now, Spacehost said:

I guess my point is, you're not in Scotland, talking to Scottish people, who you expect will know that you will mean it a specific way with a specific intent. You're on the internet speaking to people from wherever, and part of navigating that is knowing and understanding that perhaps most people will take a word the way it's mostly used- as an extremely misogynistic insult.

 

That's all fair. I forget at times and no harm or offensive was intended. 

 

Sorry. 

[Spacehost]

5 minutes ago, Ry said:

 

That's all fair. I forget at times and no harm or offensive was intended. 

 

Sorry. 

Oh like, this isn't meant as criticism or anything. I just want to give my perspective on it and why people might be reacting to it, as a man with a long and storied history of being completely fucking oblivious to how what he says comes across in real life.

[fat flatulent git]

This game is actually quite popular on resetera. They’ve had to lock their “What games are you buying this month?” thread after Hogwarts Legacy was mentioned time and time again.

[Isaac]

1 hour ago, fat flatulent git said:

This game is actually quite popular on resetera. They’ve had to lock their “What games are you buying this month?” thread after Hogwarts Legacy was mentioned time and time again.

 

Forspoken is popular on Resetera, it is a weird place.

[BadgerFarmer]

7 hours ago, Rex Grossman said:

I’ve now looked up when I used the phrase ‘stupid cunt’ about a woman. In turns out it was in reference to a file name that had the person’s name ‘is a silly cunt’. So not actually anywhere near what it seemed like from your post. Thankfully.

 

 

If it's any consolation, even an uncharitable reading would make your post one of the least misogynistic on that page.

[Rex Grossman]

1 hour ago, BadgerFarmer said:

If it's any consolation, even an uncharitable reading would make your post one of the least misogynistic on that page.

Yes, that long-forgotten thread was a shitshow looking back.

 

Im glad I didn’t actually call her a stupid cunt but I also wish I hadn’t made any contribution at all. 

[Hamus]

9 hours ago, Clipper said:

WHat? even tories?

 

I'm out!

 

You're out? They won't like you either!

 

(I'm a wanted man, Yadda Yadda)

[therearerules]

3 hours ago, fat flatulent git said:

This game is actually quite popular on resetera. They’ve had to lock their “What games are you buying this month?” thread after Hogwarts Legacy was mentioned time and time again.

They're banning people for buying the game now, which is something.

[bradigor]

1 minute ago, therearerules said:

They're banning people for buying the game now, which is something.

 

That's a joke right? Despite my feelings, everyone has the right to buy what they want without punishment.

[Flub]

Just now, bradigor said:

 

That's a joke right? Despite my feelings, everyone has the right to buy what they want without punishment.

 

The feb "What are you buying this month thread" has a staff announcement tagged to every page

 

Some people are ignoring it and getting bans.

 

[bradigor]

Wow. 

[Flub]

Era mods are generally too ban happy (To a stupid degree) but in this case they've been very clear about the decision. No mention of the game at all anywhere. I think the JK Rowling TERF thread gets a pass but to be honest I wouldn't risk it.

[Luseth]

1 minute ago, therearerules said:

They're banning people for buying the game now, which is something.

 

Heavy handed tactics are only going to encourage the anti-trans brigade though surely?

 

I have  put a post up in the A&F thread but wanted to follow similar lines here. This thread largely seems to be ignoring the game by this point and I just wanted to put my thoughts forwards before I bow out of this thread now (unless it get's back onto game discussion at some point).

 

Those that keep coming back in here to discuss the trans / JK issue are largely speaking into an echo chamber at this point, it is a group of like minded people going around in circles just to ensure any actual game discussion can not be had (least that is how I feel). There was a release trailer posted a few pages back that never had opportunity to be discussed because this thread is moving so quickly on the trans discussion (and now misogyny).

 

My view at this point is that the trans discussion in here is achieving nothing, anyone at this point that could be dissauded from buying the game has been and anyone choosing to buy the game at this point will do so. In continuing the trans discussion in here all I can see is people getting bans for bickering with one another and if anything is probably having the opposite effect when it comes to putting across the trans issues currently. I have largely been dissauded from coming into this thread to discuss the game now and will likely discuss it on other websites. I imagine I am not the only person to do so.

 

In turn that means those who might have a change of heart or might learn from these discussions are no longer coming into this thread to do so. In fact I am at the point now where I have suggested this thread may be better off being closed rather than it just being a thread repeating the discussion being had in off topic. The downside to that is then the opportunity to raise the trans issue awareness with those who might not know what is going on may disappear as well, but I feel like that may have already happened.

 

I have said it upthread, at this point there is nothing that would persuade me not to buy this game, it has been ordered and I do not plan to cancel it and that will be the case with any others at this point. If anyone supporting the cause feels that makes me an enemy, well that's a shame but that is up to them if they want to choose to see an enemy where there isn't one.

 

 

 

[Rex Grossman]

20 minutes ago, therearerules said:

They're banning people for buying the game now, which is something.

They’re banning people from mentioning a game that isn’t allowed to be discussed.

 

If they preordered it and didn’t discuss it over there then they wouldn’t be banned.

 

Yes it’s all a bit Orwellian with its enforced groupthink but they’re entitled to set the rules as they see fit.