Hogwarts Legacy - Not as good as Dog Kid University

[Floyd]

4 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

Because people care who supports the game?

 

Gotcha. 

[Scribblor]

1 hour ago, jonny_rat said:

 

I think the nature of development means that this is inevitable, with people working in their own little boxes of the game. Narrative designers in games on the lower end of the budget scale don't get a chance to steer the more in-depth features and mechanics, so shoehorning a character in where they can is probably about as much as they can do. Maybe there's roomfuls of suits pushing to include minorities, but often in my experience it's someone pretty low down the chain. As I said, I don't really see the issue unless it's trying to defuse or distract something actively harmful.

This is an interesting discussion and without wanting to properly derail the thread (I should start a new topic, probably), how would you like game writers to handle things if, for example, I'm they're writing/narrative designing a sci fi game set in a future where trans and non-binary people are totally accepted?

 

Surely the characters should just be treated as themselves, without drawing attention to the fact they're trans or NB? Other than some of them using they/them pronouns, shouldn't it just go unremarked? If every non-cis character has that fact mentioned (either by themselves or someone else) wouldn't that feel wrong and tokenistic in a world where it's just accepted? Especially if, say, most of these characters are side characters because there are only a very few main characters in this game and they're not all trans/NB.

But how would the player know it's just accepted without it being mentioned?

 

Mentioning it to explicitly say it's just accepted could be seen as being tokenistic about it (and where do you mention that anyway?)

Not mentioning it, on the other hand, would mean that, pronouns aside, the trans or non-binaryness of the characters would be invisible. Given our society today, that invisibility would be minimising that aspect of the character, surely?

 

And minimising the inclusion of trans and non-binary people is something that's definitely not the idea, but if drawing attention to it is othering, that's also not the idea.

 

I think the solution is to do the best I they can and ask for a lot of feedback to make sure it's being handled sensitively, which is probably easier if there are a few trans and non binary people at the studio.

[Floyd]

I didn't' mean to be obtuse, I just find this whole thing interesting on morels etc. Picturing someone going through the online friend list possibly deleting them if they've played the game. Maybe a little message to them as well to explain why? Each to their own, but again, interesting. 

[ZOK]

8 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

I only have a Switch

Me too! (Since they shut down Stadia).

 

Luckily Pocket Card Jockey on iPhone is currently fulfilling all my next gen gaming needs.

[Broker]

7 hours ago, disperse and recoagulate said:

The same people probably still dance to Ignition (Remix), I bet.

[Haribokart]

17 minutes ago, Graham S said:

I’m afraid it’s very clear when people you know give off bad vibes on this subject, there’s no need to go looking for it. 

 

JUST GOT HOGWARTS LEGACY!!! REVIEWS FOR HOGWARTS LEGACY ARE REALLY GOOD!!!!! CAN'T WAIT TO PLAY HOGWARTS LEGACY!!!!

[Rikku]

My handle is tutsiebear, I bought the game - I do not agree with the views of JKR, but at this stage, I really would rather people just remove me from their friends list if it’s objectionable.  No hard feelings from my side and I accept that there is really not a good enough excuse for buying the game.
 

For me, it’s choosing to take a hit on my moral compass. That’s it. I really want to play the game in a world I imagined over and over and over again when I was growing up and I made the choice to share that with my kiddo.  I have read all of the views here and will continue to do so in order to educate myself. I argued with myself over it a lot. 

I do accept that I will be removed from some people, I do however wonder what happens in the future though. Is it something I need to disclose when the next big thing comes along and we are all excited to play? Just FYI, I bought that Hogwarts game 6 years ago, so you might not want to add me as a friend? 

[yakumo]

15 minutes ago, Floyd said:

I didn't' mean to be obtuse, I just find this whole thing interesting on morels etc. Picturing someone going through the online friend list possibly deleting them if they've played the game. Maybe a little message to them as well to explain why? Each to their own, but again, interesting. 

 

It sort of reminds me of the ridiculous situation regarding Mr Beast recently and him helping people with  blindness calling his action demonic:

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kelseyweekman/mrbeast-helping-blind-people-youtube-stunt-philanthropy

 

I just find it ridiculous that you remove someone because they played it, that is some next level Idiocracy?.

[macosx]

A witch hunt. Quite fitting.

[Haribokart]

6 minutes ago, Rikku said:

Is it something I need to disclose when the next big thing comes along and we are all excited to play? Just FYI, I bought that Hogwarts game 6 years ago, so you might not want to add me as a friend? 

 

I can just picture you getting hot and heavy with someone, things getting to the next level in the bedroom and just before intercourse popping that warning out 

[K]

20 minutes ago, jonny_rat said:

 

But it probably is a choice - if I've learned anything from working with games developers, no one is trying to make a shit story or a shit character, or a shit game for that matter. There are always reasons for why the thing they made turned out bad, and it's rarely the 'lazy devs' trope. It sounds in this case like it's lack of ability, or lack of feedback from representative players, or lack of time, or members of the writing team working on bits of the game in isolation. So there is a choice - do we cut that character because they're hard to write?

 

And I mean, I probably do agree that it's tokenism (I haven't played it so, you know) - but to go back to your original post about this, it's taking the rough with the smooth right? I'll eat as much tokenism as it takes if it's part of a wider journey.

 

I would probably say that if the character has such a limited role that it just isn't possible to introduce a complex aspect of their personality in a nuanced or believable way, then that's probably the wrong character to explore that idea. I don't think there's anything stopping them from making that character trans (or whatever) - there are plenty of ways of raising that in different ways in a game - but there has to come a point where discussing this issue in the pre-race soundbites in a driving game becomes like trying to stuff a duvet into an envelope. But yeah, I accept that the developers are probably trying to be inclusive, and that it's probably a flawed attempt at representation rather than a bad faith attempt to wokewash their game. 

[footle]

10 minutes ago, Haribokart said:

 

JUST GOT HOGWARTS LEGACY!!! REVIEWS FOR HOGWARTS LEGACY ARE REALLY GOOD!!!!! CAN'T WAIT TO PLAY HOGWARTS LEGACY!!!!

That’s very similar to the email I’ve just got from ShopTo.

[PaB]

8 minutes ago, Rikku said:

My handle is tutsiebear, I bought the game - I do not agree with the views of JKR, but at this stage, I really would rather people just remove me from their friends list if it’s objectionable.  No hard feelings from my side and I accept that there is really not a good enough excuse for buying the game.
 

For me, it’s choosing to take a hit on my moral compass. That’s it. I really want to play the game in a world I imagined over and over and over again when I was growing up and I made the choice to share that with my kiddo.  I have read all of the views here and will continue to do so in order to educate myself. I argued with myself over it a lot. 

I do accept that I will be removed from some people, I do however wonder what happens in the future though. Is it something I need to disclose when the next big thing comes along and we are all excited to play? Just FYI, I bought that Hogwarts game 6 years ago, so you might not want to add me as a friend? 

It’s absolutely bonkers that someone should feel they have to make this post. But here we are. 
 

[Rikku]

1 minute ago, Haribokart said:

 

I can just picture you getting hot and heavy with someone, things getting to the next level in the bedroom and just before intercourse popping that warning out 

I’ll let you know how it goes! 

[Strafe]

This is the first time I’ve seen people on Twitter upset about a game being good. 

I don’t know if I can be bothered with it now, PSVR2 is just around the corner. I’ll probably crack by the end of the week and, assuming I do, I have some CeX credit to buy it second hand so might have to wait a few days anyway.

 

The pop in looks shit. Maybe there’s a day 1 (day 4?) patch on the way.

 

[DennyDifferent]

16 minutes ago, Rikku said:

My handle is tutsiebear, I bought the game - I do not agree with the views of JKR, but at this stage, I really would rather people just remove me from their friends list if it’s objectionable.  No hard feelings from my side and I accept that there is really not a good enough excuse for buying the game.
 

For me, it’s choosing to take a hit on my moral compass. That’s it. I really want to play the game in a world I imagined over and over and over again when I was growing up and I made the choice to share that with my kiddo.  I have read all of the views here and will continue to do so in order to educate myself. I argued with myself over it a lot. 

I do accept that I will be removed from some people, I do however wonder what happens in the future though. Is it something I need to disclose when the next big thing comes along and we are all excited to play? Just FYI, I bought that Hogwarts game 6 years ago, so you might not want to add me as a friend? 

 

This is pretty much my position too but put in a much more succinct way than I could. Although when I end up picking it up it'll be to play with my daughter, as I've said previously. It's a hard one because generally I tend to pride myself on my liberal leanings but on this they're taking a fair old hit, which is why it really riled me up getting called a TERF a couple of pages back.

[Strafe]

I think it’s very possible to buy this game and not be a bad person.

[DennyDifferent]

Just now, Strafe said:

I think it’s very possible to buy this game and not be a bad person.

 

Not to some, it would seem.

[Clipper]

of course it is possible to buy this game and not be a bad person. Apart from some rather nasty outliers I don't think the majority of people are saying that.

 

I think the only thing is that if you purchase this game then some people affected by trans issues may not see you as an ally anymore. They may be people you regard as friends and that may sting but it's understandable why they may feel that way.

 

If you want to say that those freiends shouldn't feel that way, that is more problematic.

[Strafe]

I think if this - Hogwarts Legacy - is the line you draw in the sand then that’s good and commendable, you can’t support every cause or boycott everything. I’m not being sarcastic.
 

But if you can’t handle the thought of your money going to bad people then a new hobby might be in order. Also, calling someone who buys this game a TERF is very silly on many levels.

 

 

[Strafe]

Just now, Clipper said:

of course it is possible to buy this game and not be a bad person. Apart from some outliers I don't think anyone is saying that.

 

I think the only thing is that if you purchase this game then some people affected by trans issues may not see you as an ally anymore. They may be people you regard as friends and that may sting but it's understandable why they may feel that way.

Yeah, I was commenting on the outliers. That @Rex Grossman had to break down or justify his posts because of bad faith interpretations was a whole new level for this thread considering his position.

 

 

[Clipper]

3 minutes ago, Strafe said:

I think if this - Hogwarts Legacy - is the line you draw in the sand then that’s good and commendable, you can’t support every cause or boycott everything. I’m not being sarcastic.
 

But if you can’t handle the thought of your money going to bad people then a new hobby might be in order. Also, calling someone who buys this game a TERF is very silly on many levels.

 

 

ANd here you are doing the thing that will cause the image to be posted again

 

Everyone draws their own boundaries. If you have a friend who boycotts this game and no longer regards you as an ally because you purchased this game then that is their decision and their boundary. Even thinking the line in bold is deeply disrespectful of those boundaries let alone saying it.

 

 

And I am NOT getting into a circular fucking argument explaining myself in a spiral again so that is that.

[Nathan Wind]

6 minutes ago, Strafe said:

Also, calling someone who buys this game a TERF is very silly on many levels.

 

 

Or ya know, saying they’re supporting genocide. Perhaps there should be an official ‘muk spreadsheet of members caught playing this game so they can be properly ostracised as the genocidal maniacs they are. Feel free to wipe me from any friend lists too since even though I have zero interest in this, and agree entirely that Rowling’s a transphobic astrocunt, I feel that some of the reactions in this thread are beyond fucking barmy. Witch hunt indeed.

 

[Steven]

46 minutes ago, Floyd said:

I didn't' mean to be obtuse, I just find this whole thing interesting on morels etc. Picturing someone going through the online friend list possibly deleting them if they've played the game. Maybe a little message to them as well to explain why? Each to their own, but again, interesting. 

 

[Strafe]

Just now, Clipper said:

ANd here you are doing the thing that will cause the image to be posted again

 

Everyone draws their own boundaries. If you have a friend who boycotts this game and no longer regards you as an ally because you purchased this game then that is their decision and their boundary. Even thinking the line in bold is deeply disrespectful of those boundaries let alone saying it.

 

 

And I am NOT getting into a circular fucking argument explaining myself in a spiral again so that is that.

You don’t need to post the image again, I already made the disclaimer in the first paragraph. I’m not being disrespectful and this is what I mean by bad faith interpretations.

 

If someone no longer regards me as something if I buy this game or if I buy something else then I will have to accept that.

[ZOK]

I could be wrong here, but I am going to hazard a guess that Ben was being obviously flippant with his friends list suggestion in reaction to that Twitch stream link, and now we’ve got a page of histrionics over something that no-one is doing.

[bradigor]

18 minutes ago, Strafe said:

I think it’s very possible to buy this game and not be a bad person.

 

Of course, I personally don't see anyone as a bad person for buying and enjoying the game. 

[Zael]

In all these pages of discussion we've lost sight of who the real persecuted minority is. The Gamers.

[Strafe]

Just now, bradigor said:

 

Of course, I personally don't see anyone as a bad person for buying and enjoying the game. 

I know. The more measured opinions in this thread have convinced me to pick it up second hand at least (that’s if I even do, I’ve really gone off it for some reason. Probably when the Destiny comparisons started floating in).

[Flub]

Resetera banned all talk of the game. r/ps5 banned all talk of JK Rowling