Feeling like a failure

[idiwa]

 

[mexos]

26 minutes ago, idiwa said:

I get the same feelings when I'm doing UX workshops with stakeholders (@mexos I'm sure you have the same Oh fuck did we capture that moments). As soon as you start doing it for someone else there is a lot of pressure and its no longer fun, its you providing a service. 

 

As a footnote to my rant above I’ve now moved from a visual design role (graphic design, branding, UI design) into a UX role (done this for the past year). There is zero creative input; its all based around government design systems (.gov) so yeah, its nada on the visual front. Its basically designing with pre made lego components. Nice people to work with and I get paid a hell of a lot more than as a visual designer. But I now feel trapped (by the salary) and devoid of any creative spark. But I have a job in an uncertain time and I should really STFU.

 

Oh yeah. Doing the remote has made it easier though since I record everything. I screen record and as a backup I place my phone near to the speaker and record the audio too. I never really liked standing in front of whiteboards so doing Miro instead I am more than happy with!

 

Your path is very similar to mine, but I'm about 6 years in since I switched. Deffo in this market worth keeping your VD skills up to date here and there (not that you ever really lose it) since everyone wants the unicorn product designer these days. I don't ever want to go back to full time pixels but it's good imo to be able to knock something out at a pinch if you need it. Your history and knowledge will for sure come in handy in the future, even if it's not in this role. I too feel a bit trapped - my wage is good enough. I never pushed to become CD+ so I am still a 'doo-er'. Basically the highest level in my company where you do the work instead of talking about the work. I don't do any studio culture bullshit or try to be seen to be desperate for promotion. I do my thing and clock off as quickly as I can when the work is done. I should have made CD by now but there you go.

 

I also started painting recently! We went to Japan 3 years ago and I bought some Gundam, only now getting into it. Bought myself an airbrush and all the gubbins. It's hard!

 

[Loik V credern]

1 hour ago, idiwa said:

The other thing I just want to say is that I am such a cunt for look over someone else’s work/ photography/ YouTube content and slag it off. Not publicly, just sitting there tutting under my breath how that’s crap/ half arsed… These are the people who are putting themselves out there and all I can do is slag them off rather than be inspired to post more and get feedback/ grow as a creative and as a person.

 

Are they putting themselves out there in their output though? If it's generic and there's no personality to it, nothing of them in the work then i think it's fair to slag it off. Why would they care? I don't really understand the obsession with professionalism in art, except in marketting, when it's sleek to sell shiny objects. It just affects how everyone sees all imagery. 99% of photography is basically pointless to me, it's the same imagery over and over again. But that's just me, i know others see things differently.

 

I like to do street photography (obviously, that's why my avatar is there, to remind and annoy people) but not like to see what others do. I spent a year in 2012 seeing a lot and being amazed by all of it, but now if i see just one shot and think 'i've never got anything like that' i'm just going to think i'm a level below and my only desire to do it is spin everything my way and personalise every image. Sometimes people get stuff where i think 'well that's what i'd like to do', i use their best shot favourably towards them, then pick out my worst, ignoring all the good stuff inbetween which i'd hope others would look at and think 'i'd like to have got that'. It's more so because everyone else uses a better camera than me, except when it's their phopne. I can't get anything in low light and go minimal with everything.

[idiwa]

@Loik V credern I think its more when I'm viewing branding and UI work. There's a fuck ton of people online who throw about the term UX for UI design and its basically design wank vs design for a user/ design for a purpose. I just get sick of UX being used as a buzz word for knocking up apps in Figma.

This design wank then gets retweeted/ linked with vapid OMG AMZE! comments and its just all fur coat and nae knickers.

[CS2x]

On 29/11/2021 at 13:48, idiwa said:

I find this interesting - Previous to being a commercial/ professional designer I found it relatively easy to be creative for shits and giggles. I was just doing stuff for myself, no aims, user needs, no client to satisfy. As soon as I started working professionally I found it impossible to just create something. To noodle with something for the hell of it. Unless it was a tutorial or a new process. Basically being a professional removed the ability to enjoy being creative for creative sake.

 

In regards to sharing stuff - I never like it. I over think things. I always see the mistakes in my work, the smoke and mirrors that hide my lack of ability/ talent. The thing I’ve created is not what I wanted it to look like, its what I was able to create. I’ve spoke ad infinitum on the form before about Imposter Syndrome; I really get quite bitter sometimes when ruminating on my career, comparing myself to my peers from previous jobs or folk I knew at Uni. I very much have the outlook that I should be HERE now… and how much I have ran away from challenges rather than running forwards into opportunities.

 

As far as social media - I use things like Dribbble and Behance (two visual design focused communities) but I never post on them. I just use them for inspiration. I have my own portfolio site but that’s just there for job hunting and when I’m in a role I’ll do nothing with it until I get the itch to find a new role.

 

I do photography for fun, but that has started to grow arms and legs and its not as fun as it was. I recently upgraded my camera from an entry level Nikon with a few lenses to a Sony semi pro beast for a substantial wedge of cash. Now I have all this (internal pressure) to use this camera, to use it to its full extent. It’s gotten to the point where I’ve seriously considered selling it as it just feels like more self flagellation. Basically its not fun, so why am I doing it. Not to mention the pile of shame that is photos that need editing and then the inevitable posting to Instagram.

 

Instagram is the only proper big social media account I still have; I sacked off Facebook a good 5-6 years ago and also Twitter. But I do find Instagram to be a soulless experience as a creative. You craft something, sweat blood and tears over it. Edit and re-edit the caption and the tags and then hit post. You get a few likes and then its yesterdays news, todays chip wrappers. Its not cherished by those that see it. Its just some Generation Game conveyor belt of content that keeps on moving. The fundamental problem with Instagram is that its not for photographers. Its for people to share moments and memories. Its not photography gallery, its not something that is being referred back to. I’d really like to just kill off instagram but I know my wife likes to see my photography up there. She has her own account and whilst just shooting with her mobile she’s getting really decent and she enjoys posting things after a hike etc. For her its just posting things, its not some sort of uber creative investment. I on the other hand, can’t make that disconnect. Its not casual. Its like its another portfolio, another statement of my worth/ of my skill. Its another way to be judged by my peers.

 

 

 

idiwa, thanks so much for sharing so openly. Really enjoyed it. It's very helpful to read honest accounts of this journey, especially in terms of feeling we should be at position x by now, issues of comparison and the impact of being "being a professional" on making new stuff. Your description of sharing anything with work or detail put into it on social media is spot on; putting up anything except casual personal moments does feel pointless. On occasions decent discussions / friendly debates can still erupt on Facebook, but sharing created things on Istagram or any other platform...there's not really actual engagement as far as I can see. "You get a few likes and then its yesterdays news, todays chip wrappers. Its not cherished by those that see it...it's just some Generation Game conveyor belt of content that keeps on moving" just about summarises it, as you put it!

[CS2x]

In the nature of sharing, and for a change of pace, here is something (that can be downloaded for free.) On the eve of 2020, two new tracks of mine were put out on a pay-what-you-want basis on Slowfoot Records for a period as a gift for the new year. I’ve re-uploaded these on a new bandcamp site, along with a new 2020 track “Kid Droid Dreams” to complete the picture. The new release is again pay-what-you-want and the tracks particularly close to my heart. 🙂

https://robertloganmusic.bandcamp.com/album/you-me

[Exit Chamber]

On 11/12/2021 at 22:38, CS2x said:

In the nature of sharing, and for a change of pace, here is something (that can be downloaded for free.) On the eve of 2020, two new tracks of mine were put out on a pay-what-you-want basis on Slowfoot Records for a period as a gift for the new year. I’ve re-uploaded these on a new bandcamp site, along with a new 2020 track “Kid Droid Dreams” to complete the picture. The new release is again pay-what-you-want and the tracks particularly close to my heart. 🙂

https://robertloganmusic.bandcamp.com/album/you-me

 

These are really nice, I particularly like Fe.

[CS2x]

On 13/12/2021 at 19:27, Blunted said:

 

These are really nice, I particularly like Fe.

 

Thank you very much, Blunted!

[Papaya Dance]

I'm getting a bit fed up at the moment, having fractured my foot I'm pretty much housebound and can't work for a few weeks so I've thrown myself into recording music and made some stuff I'm really pleased with. I know it's not brilliant but for my skill level I'm proud of what I've achieved, then I share it on Facebook and get the same 3 likes from my mum, my aunt and my girlfriend and weirdly only get 2 listens to it on SoundCloud so at least one of those three hasn't even bothered listening to my work.

 

I enjoy the creative process enough that it's reward in itself and I'm not a good enough song writer that I expect to gain any 'fans' or make any money but a few new listens and some feedback from people I know would be a start, then maybe even a few people I don't know...but that's by the by.

 

Anyway, any folk got tips on how to get your work out to a wider audience, even if it is just for some critique?

[Loik V credern]

13 minutes ago, Papaya Dance said:

I'm getting a bit fed up at the moment, having fractured my foot I'm pretty much housebound and can't work for a few weeks so I've thrown myself into recording music and made some stuff I'm really pleased with. I know it's not brilliant but for my skill level I'm proud of what I've achieved, then I share it on Facebook and get the same 3 likes from my mum, my aunt and my girlfriend and weirdly only get 2 listens to it on SoundCloud so at least one of those three hasn't even bothered listening to my work.

 

I enjoy the creative process enough that it's reward in itself and I'm not a good enough song writer that I expect to gain any 'fans' or make any money but a few new listens and some feedback from people I know would be a start, then maybe even a few people I don't know...but that's by the by.

 

Anyway, any folk got tips on how to get your work out to a wider audience, even if it is just for some critique?

 

Put it on any forum or subreddit where people show their stuff. The most positive feedback I've ever had is in places where I'm new and despite doing stuff completely different to what the norm is, some really appreciate it and respond overwhelmingly. 

 

The places I've always uploaded, like here, deviantart, if there is any strong reactions from people, I don't hear it. The only measure of interest and an impression being made is people coming back, but I can't see that either. I just end up having a low opinion of it, you do need people to react to the qualities that are there, and the strong elements, otherwise you just end up thinking everyone is apathetic, which I can't blame people for being. 

 

There's a few music critique subreddits, though nowhere near as active as photography ones tbf. I don’t know forums, just we are the music makers, but that's electronic. Maybe give your track an attention seeking title, like 'the sound of satan strangling himself to death', I'd probably click on that thread. 

[Papaya Dance]

42 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Put it on any forum or subreddit where people show their stuff. The most positive feedback I've ever had is in places where I'm new and despite doing stuff completely different to what the norm is, some really appreciate it and respond overwhelmingly. 

 

The places I've always uploaded, like here, deviantart, if there is any strong reactions from people, I don't hear it. The only measure of interest and an impression being made is people coming back, but I can't see that either. I just end up having a low opinion of it, you do need people to react to the qualities that are there, and the strong elements, otherwise you just end up thinking everyone is apathetic, which I can't blame people for being. 

 

There's a few music critique subreddits, though nowhere near as active as photography ones tbf. I don’t know forums, just we are the music makers, but that's electronic. Maybe give your track an attention seeking title, like 'the sound of satan strangling himself to death', I'd probably click on that thread. 

Aye with so much free music being added to Spotify every day by people more talented and with better gear than me I'm not expecting to go into anyone's daily playlist, just be nice to hear something faintly patronising like 'you must have worked really hard on that' from someone other than my mum.

[Loik V credern]

16 hours ago, Papaya Dance said:

Aye with so much free music being added to Spotify every day by people more talented and with better gear than me I'm not expecting to go into anyone's daily playlist, just be nice to hear something faintly patronising like 'you must have worked really hard on that' from someone other than my mum.

 

Can you link to it? I think i can muster a 'you must have worked really hard on that'.

[Papaya Dance]

1 hour ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Can you link to it? I think i can muster a 'you must have worked really hard on that'.

Haha I appreciate that but I've done it under my real name, which I'd rather not reveal on the forum for...reasons. I'll definitely take a look at the other places you mentioned though thanks! In better news the track I uploaded today has already smashed yesterday's effort with a magnificent 3 listens 🎊

[CS2x]

On 10/01/2022 at 23:13, Papaya Dance said:

I'm getting a bit fed up at the moment, having fractured my foot I'm pretty much housebound and can't work for a few weeks so I've thrown myself into recording music and made some stuff I'm really pleased with. I know it's not brilliant but for my skill level I'm proud of what I've achieved, then I share it on Facebook and get the same 3 likes from my mum, my aunt and my girlfriend and weirdly only get 2 listens to it on SoundCloud so at least one of those three hasn't even bothered listening to my work.

 

I enjoy the creative process enough that it's reward in itself and I'm not a good enough song writer that I expect to gain any 'fans' or make any money but a few new listens and some feedback from people I know would be a start, then maybe even a few people I don't know...but that's by the by.

 

Anyway, any folk got tips on how to get your work out to a wider audience, even if it is just for some critique?

Thanks for sharing. You’re not alone in this experience - I was just talking with another musician how I posted a new release on my personal Facebook, got over 30 likes, and literally 0 listens on the hosing site. It can feel sad taking note of these stats / talking about them, but it was fascinating to see how little people actually engage compared to a few years ago. Also, as someone else said in this thread, it’s hard to relate to the lack of curiosity (although I appreciate how much busier everyone else may be than me in life, haha)...if I were to see anyone (be it an old school friend or family member) has posted music or whatever, I couldn’t help but be curious as to what they’ve been doing.

 

The lack of transferability applies to many areas it seems. I don’t mean to share this in a name-droppy way (hate that kind of stuff), but rather by way of another bit of interesting evidence of this. Before they got big I made tracks with Lana Del Rey and FKA Twigs. Over the years I’ve put those on SoundCloud, really just to give an example of how I can work with vocalists (haven’t actually got that many examples of such work!) For a whole year they got hardly any attention, until one of the tracks was posted to a forum. They shot up overnight, but what’s fascinating is that in the years since, there is close to 0% cross-pollination to any other tracks on there. Of course I expected this, and never posted them expecting people to care about my solo music (why would their fans care? - as stated, they’re really on there as examples of vocal work.) But coming from a background of looking up the personnel involved in a record and exploring what else they’ve done, of really getting in rabbit trails, I did find that fact that that *never* happened odd. Those guys may be pop, but their new music is interesting / unusual enough that surely some fans would be slightly savvy about the background construction of music. It’s not because they hate the productions, because I get lots of nice response to those tracks alone. I guess the internet has brought about more hurried one-track-use than I envisioned years and years ago, modern YouTube trawls notwithstanding...!

[idiwa]

On 10/01/2022 at 23:13, Papaya Dance said:

I'm getting a bit fed up at the moment, having fractured my foot I'm pretty much housebound and can't work for a few weeks so I've thrown myself into recording music and made some stuff I'm really pleased with. I know it's not brilliant but for my skill level I'm proud of what I've achieved, then I share it on Facebook and get the same 3 likes from my mum, my aunt and my girlfriend and weirdly only get 2 listens to it on SoundCloud so at least one of those three hasn't even bothered listening to my work.

 

I enjoy the creative process enough that it's reward in itself and I'm not a good enough song writer that I expect to gain any 'fans' or make any money but a few new listens and some feedback from people I know would be a start, then maybe even a few people I don't know...but that's by the by.

 

Anyway, any folk got tips on how to get your work out to a wider audience, even if it is just for some critique?

 

I think its as others have said you need to hit your target market. Its like trying to get feedback on a really nice craft hazy IPA in a Yate's Wine Lodge... no one is gonna give a shit.

[Papaya Dance]

On 16/01/2022 at 13:43, CS2x said:

Thanks for sharing. You’re not alone in this experience - I was just talking with another musician how I posted a new release on my personal Facebook, got over 30 likes, and literally 0 listens on the hosing site. It can feel sad taking note of these stats / talking about them, but it was fascinating to see how little people actually engage compared to a few years ago. Also, as someone else said in this thread, it’s hard to relate to the lack of curiosity (although I appreciate how much busier everyone else may be than me in life, haha)...if I were to see anyone (be it an old school friend or family member) has posted music or whatever, I couldn’t help but be curious as to what they’ve been doing.

 

The lack of transferability applies to many areas it seems. I don’t mean to share this in a name-droppy way (hate that kind of stuff), but rather by way of another bit of interesting evidence of this. Before they got big I made tracks with Lana Del Rey and FKA Twigs. Over the years I’ve put those on SoundCloud, really just to give an example of how I can work with vocalists (haven’t actually got that many examples of such work!) For a whole year they got hardly any attention, until one of the tracks was posted to a forum. They shot up overnight, but what’s fascinating is that in the years since, there is close to 0% cross-pollination to any other tracks on there. Of course I expected this, and never posted them expecting people to care about my solo music (why would their fans care? - as stated, they’re really on there as examples of vocal work.) But coming from a background of looking up the personnel involved in a record and exploring what else they’ve done, of really getting in rabbit trails, I did find that fact that that *never* happened odd. Those guys may be pop, but their new music is interesting / unusual enough that surely some fans would be slightly savvy about the background construction of music. It’s not because they hate the productions, because I get lots of nice response to those tracks alone. I guess the internet has brought about more hurried one-track-use than I envisioned years and years ago, modern YouTube trawls notwithstanding...!

Yeah a lot of this resonates with me though I'd not yet thought about it in such depth but I'm fully in agreement.

 

It's got me feeling like a bit of a hypocrite too if I'm honest. Now I think more about it I've a couple of friends who are poets. Poetry isn't my thing so I can't even say if they're good at their craft but if they share stuff on Facebook I'll often give it a like to show I support them persuing their art, but I very rarely read what they've produced. A friend is in a band that's getting regular gigs in the local area and when I see them post something new I'll usually give it one listen but not often offer any feedback and then forget all about it.  They're loads better than the stuff I've been making too so if I don't get engaged with that why should I expect anyone to get further than 20 seconds into my tracks before going back to something they actually want to hear on Spotify.

 

I guess this ties in with what @idiwa said about target market too. The poetry guys are posting in poetry groups and gaining a bit of traction in there. My mate's band are playing the sort of pubs where people who enjoy new local music are going, and I'm trying to shill my stuff onto family and old school friends I don't talk to anymore who have their own tastes and interests which are more readily available now than ever.

 

I suppose it just makes me a wee bit sad that when I wrote songs as a teenager, which were shite, I'd burn them onto CDs and hand them out to friends and family and get loads of good feedback. Now it's so much easier to share and access with just a click and nae cunt can be bothered. But they don't owe me a well done or even a listen to the intro to see if they like it so I probably just need to take more joy in the creative process and be less bothered about likes and plays. Global domination was never the aim anyway.

[moosegrinder]

Still failing. Looking like I'm going to have to look for something part time but I'm actively avoiding it because the prospect of going back to retail (all I'm qualified for) fills me with terror.  I started a Ko-fi which I don't really know how I feel about it, because I don't have the confidence to set up a Patreon and this seems like "Feel sorry for me? Gimme money!" It's just difficult to get people to give a fuck. I need a USP or some shit. It's all very much like marketing. Which makes me want to punch myself in the face.

[idiwa]

43 minutes ago, Papaya Dance said:

Yeah a lot of this resonates with me though I'd not yet thought about it in such depth but I'm fully in agreement.

 

It's got me feeling like a bit of a hypocrite too if I'm honest. Now I think more about it I've a couple of friends who are poets. Poetry isn't my thing so I can't even say if they're good at their craft but if they share stuff on Facebook I'll often give it a like to show I support them persuing their art, but I very rarely read what they've produced. A friend is in a band that's getting regular gigs in the local area and when I see them post something new I'll usually give it one listen but not often offer any feedback and then forget all about it.  They're loads better than the stuff I've been making too so if I don't get engaged with that why should I expect anyone to get further than 20 seconds into my tracks before going back to something they actually want to hear on Spotify.

 

I guess this ties in with what @idiwa said about target market too. The poetry guys are posting in poetry groups and gaining a bit of traction in there. My mate's band are playing the sort of pubs where people who enjoy new local music are going, and I'm trying to shill my stuff onto family and old school friends I don't talk to anymore who have their own tastes and interests which are more readily available now than ever.

 

I suppose it just makes me a wee bit sad that when I wrote songs as a teenager, which were shite, I'd burn them onto CDs and hand them out to friends and family and get loads of good feedback. Now it's so much easier to share and access with just a click and nae cunt can be bothered. But they don't owe me a well done or even a listen to the intro to see if they like it so I probably just need to take more joy in the creative process and be less bothered about likes and plays. Global domination was never the aim anyway.

 

I guess the other thing is posting stuff and wanting feedback vs wanting a thumbs up. This is what I don't like about Instagram. I want to grow as a photographer but most are just hitting like and onto the next. Really what I should be doing (if its on instagram) is stating that I am happy to have my work critiqued and using hashtags that pull people into this. 

 

My gut tells me instagram is not the best place for that sort of feedback but again it could be that I find people I like/ know/ trust and ask them for feedback in a less public way in the future. I don't want a yes man telling me I'm awesome I want to get better. But in the same way I don't want to have the shit ripped out of me in public.

 

ACK!

[moosegrinder]

Also, I went back through the thread and found the post @idiwa made with the video about Instagram on it and holy fuck, that's a rabbit hole to fall down. I don't know how you're supposed to get a foot hold without them as an artist. I have literally no idea how to put myself over/forward/whatever.

[idiwa]

50 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Also, I went back through the thread and found the post @idiwa made with the video about Instagram on it and holy fuck, that's a rabbit hole to fall down. I don't know how you're supposed to get a foot hold without them as an artist. I have literally no idea how to put myself over/forward/whatever.

 

[moosegrinder]

Well there's that, aye.

[Broker]

2 hours ago, moosegrinder said:

Still failing. Looking like I'm going to have to look for something part time but I'm actively avoiding it because the prospect of going back to retail (all I'm qualified for) fills me with terror.  I started a Ko-fi which I don't really know how I feel about it, because I don't have the confidence to set up a Patreon and this seems like "Feel sorry for me? Gimme money!" It's just difficult to get people to give a fuck. I need a USP or some shit. It's all very much like marketing. Which makes me want to punch myself in the face.

Have you thought about trying to find someone to collaborate with? I know that when I was looking into creating a comic book, there were a LOT of people who had scripts they’d written but couldn’t find an artist. It’s definitely hard to get paid for anything creative, but based on my experience as a writer trying to find an artist, the other side of that equation was in much higher demand amongst non professionals looking to work together on projects to build a portfolio. I can’t remember what the community was called (I think it was a Facebook group so I’ll look in a minute), but it was basically just a way for aspiring comic book creators to find other people to work with. 
 

I’m guessing comic art is a lot of work, but I also assume it would give you a lot of focus for a while, and allow you to create a lot of art. It’s also a good way to get your art looked at in depth, instead of just quickly glancing on social media someone is looking at page after page of your work. And if you’re creating characters it will be easier to sell items with your art on as they’re not just random images, plus no concerns about copywrite. I appreciate that maybe I’m just saying “do loads more work for maybe no response”, but the guy who put me into it was an artist and he chose from a few scripts that were looking for an artist and found a project to work on. Nobody ever chose my script so I gave up after a few months  

 

Ill see if I can find the group.

[moosegrinder]

Sequential art is intimidating and time consuming. There's a reason artists only do a run of X amount of issues at a time because it's an obscene amount of work. I'm not consistent enough to do it, I don't think.

 

My problem is I lack direction. I just go wherever my brain takes me. Which brings me back to the shit about "making art for yourself". That's the line trotted out by people who have that luxury as they've already found success.

 

Edit: there's really no way of saying that without sounding bitter as fuck, so I apologize for being that guy.

[moosegrinder]

Now I think about it I did want to write and draw a comic. It was one of those life goal things. It was to write a book but that sounded too easy*. Then o forgot about both and sat wallowing in my own self pity.

 

 

 

*It absolutely did not, I'm just a fickle idiot.

[Loik V credern]

2 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Sequential art is intimidating and time consuming. There's a reason artists only do a run of X amount of issues at a time because it's an obscene amount of work. I'm not consistent enough to do it, I don't think.

 

My problem is I lack direction. I just go wherever my brain takes me. Which brings me back to the shit about "making art for yourself". That's the line trotted out by people who have that luxury as they've already found success.

 

Edit: there's really no way of saying that without sounding bitter as fuck, so I apologize for being that guy.

 

Does your stuff not work on t shirts? Or is making money from that even worth it? 

[moosegrinder]

4 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Does your stuff not work on t shirts? Or is making money from that even worth it? 

 

I could show you the payments from Red Bubble and Tee Public but you'd die laughing and I'd just cry myself to sleep.

 

It's very difficult to get people to see your stuff on the sites. The other problem is the stuff that's most popular is the fan stuff but circumnavigation of IP holders auto DCMA takedowns (and sometimes they come months after you've uploaded it). The conversation about making money off others IP but with original art is a lengthy one.

 

The only thing I think I should be doing is more. More more more. The only way I can hope to get people to notice is to just keep making shit and expect nothing, but I think I'm running out of time on that.

 

[Broker]

16 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Sequential art is intimidating and time consuming. There's a reason artists only do a run of X amount of issues at a time because it's an obscene amount of work. I'm not consistent enough to do it, I don't think.

 

My problem is I lack direction. I just go wherever my brain takes me. Which brings me back to the shit about "making art for yourself". That's the line trotted out by people who have that luxury as they've already found success.

 

Edit: there's really no way of saying that without sounding bitter as fuck, so I apologize for being that guy.

Sequential art is absolutely insanely time consuming and intimidating, but it does resolve your problem about direction. You’d always have something to work on. Plus if you remove the time limit and keep the length short, say a single 20 page issue with a short story over a few months, it could take at least some of the intimidation out. Think of it more like when people are doing solo game dev and just have to accept that it’s going to take years. That’s a lot of commitment though. 

[moosegrinder]

I'd have thought I'd have managed some regular income by now, even if it's a couple of hundred quid a month. 

 

I don't know. They say "Likes don't make you money" and it's true, you don't do it for the backslapping digital counter raising bullshit, but likes and retweets and comments at least tell you you're into something. Plus it's nice to know someone gives a fuck.

 

Anyway I've got a plan, I just need to see if I can stick to it.

[matt0]

My advice for comics if you did want to try them is to start working fast and get used to things looking rougher than you'd want.

 

For a first project do something really short and deliberately very rough - like 5-6 pages, the equivalent of a 2000AD Future Shock - hammer out a "finished" page a day (you will not think they look finished..!). By finished I mean pencilled, inked, lettered and possibly coloured. No actual published comic is done that fast (outside of Japan, where the artists have assistants and also are basically killing themselves to hit publication), the point is to get used to putting out complete pages under a time limit, get comfortable with leaving things in a rougher state than your usual work - which you have to do with comics, economy of effort is massively important. Then once you've done at least one of those short stories you'll have got that first wave of mistakes out of your system and have a better handling on how to approach layouts and continuity without having poured too much time in to something you've laboured over for weeks or months and aren't happy with and everybody you shows it to you looks confused and asks you what's supposed to be happening in it - which is what happens with everyone's first comics.

 

Comics are brilliant for sharpening your artistic chops, they stretch you so much.

 

Not so good for making money though, but it gives you fodder for social media and you can also use the whole thing as a brainstorming session for your next lot of finished pieces.

[yakumo]

I feel if I didn't pursue art I be a happier and more adjusted, but I wouldn't feel satisfied. I do feel like a failure, when I look at my friends and others who have done great things. I could have done it but I just feel sometimes like many overwhelmed, rushing to try and learn things instead of taking my time. I would have accepted that when I was younger but now that I'm older I feel like I don't have much time. Sometimes I go what have I done with my life, with the internet exploding there's so many amazing artist and who are younger and more hungry than before. Don't know where I'm going with this, maybe I start my horror comic, get that job but yeah I dunno, just feel like I'm keeping myself afloat each day creatively and in life.