Jump to content

Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


T Pot
 Share

Recommended Posts

32 minutes ago, Corranga said:

0 points in it and 1 race to go, there was no way they were ever penalising Max in a way to change that.

 

The whole DRS line thing is just the usual F1 BS, there should be a rule in place that states if you are ordered to give a position back, you can’tre-take the position for the next complete sector/lap/whatever.

 

TBH, I can forgive the leniency on this 10 seconds, as I don’t want to see the championship decided in a board room, but the FIA really need to sort things out. Negotiating on grid positions with no steward’s decision I’d pathetic, lack of clarity on red flag grids, formation laps, or not, gaps left to safety cars, lapped cars driving slowly under VSC, asking the team to give a position back before telling the other team they’d be let past…

 

I came into this season as “anyone but Hamilton” as the Merc dominance is dull and I find Toto only slightly less irritating than Horner, but I’m all team LH now, I don’t want to see (this) Max win. Perhaps a different Max in the future (post Red Bull?)

 

Don’t want to see either win the last race though, I’d take a Max retirement and Lewis in 10th 😅

 

This is such a nonsense line that’s getting thrown about - you have a driver cheating and being punished and the only issue here is the punishment is not being enforced properly.

 

Max was a disgrace today, more so then in the last race and that was bad enough. You can’t go around running people off the road and brake testing them - the board room have let him off.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Sidewaysbob said:

I think we've seen all the on track overtaking we're going to get today. 


Post of the thread lol. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Bushtopher said:


Max will keep on behaving like this as he doesn’t get punished for it. He clearly would have been fine for them to collide there and isn’t racing fairly. 

 

He should get a fine for a culmination of lots of small poor sportsmanship events that actually has enough impact on him that makes him think twice. 
 

 

9 hours ago, rgraves said:


Lol he made no attempt to join ‘along’ the track, he stuck himself out right across it. Take a look at the angle he came on, and the steering angle he was applying, he knew exactly what he was up to…

 

I’m now pretty sure that Max is capable of the thinking distance to make manoeuvres that are extremely difficult to call beyond racing incident. I think he looks for the chances and I think he takes them. Because I just don’t have time for the amount of shit he gets in at this point. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:

we will just have to rely on Bottas cleaning Max out to ensure a fair result next race.

This would be amazing. Especially if it's a Mercedes 1-2 on start, Bottas running interference, handbrake turn into Perez who then clips Max. 

 

Bottas: * shrugs * "it wasn't me"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, denisb said:

Probably worth putting a little bet on max taking them both out turn 1

both scoring zero after his little ive got more race wins comment in interview ?


Has anything in the rules changed since the Schumacher era to cover this scenario?

If a driver deliberately causes a collision to take a title rival out, can he be penalised so that he *doesn’t* get the title? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, NexivRed said:

I’m now pretty sure that Max is capable of the thinking distance to make manoeuvres that are extremely difficult to call beyond racing incident. I think he looks for the chances and I think he takes them. Because I just don’t have time for the amount of shit he gets in at this point. 


Combined with the knowledge that you can push way past “racing incident” and still essentially get away with it as they’re extremely reluctant to hand out an impactful punishment. If he’s taken a lesson away this weekend it’s that should next week feature a “this pass for the title!” either way he’ll be better off - in championship terms - simply taking them both out than trying anything legitimate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Vespa Alex said:


Has anything in the rules changed since the Schumacher era to cover this scenario?

If a driver deliberately causes a collision to take a title rival out, can he be penalised so that he *doesn’t* get the title? 


I think they still can, but at this point I feel Max could probably take out a gun and shoot Hamilton’s engine and just get disqualified from that race and still become champion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Vespa Alex said:


Has anything in the rules changed since the Schumacher era to cover this scenario?

If a driver deliberately causes a collision to take a title rival out, can he be penalised so that he *doesn’t* get the title? 

 

Why would they need to change the rule, it literally happened to Schumacher.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MrPogo said:


I think they still can, but at this point I feel Max could probably take out a gun and shoot Hamilton’s engine and just get disqualified from that race and still become champion.

 

For fucks sake this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Vespa Alex said:


Has anything in the rules changed since the Schumacher era to cover this scenario?

If a driver deliberately causes a collision to take a title rival out, can he be penalised so that he *doesn’t* get the title? 


Which was only symbolic anyway. Schumacher kept his wins for that season and Villeneuve finished the race and won the title anyway. Does anyone seriously expect the FIA to have the balls to disqualify Max if he causes a double DNF when it would change the result of the title?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

For fucks sake this thread.


I was expecting something more from you 😄 Seriously though, he’s clearly moved from anything that could be termed “hard racing” to flat out dirty and it’s been demonstrated more than once that won’t be punished accordingly, so a carbon copy of the Schumacher move that ended up with Max winning the title would definitely see him getting something less than a season disqualification (and Horner still blaming Hamilton).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, Max is aggressive but I don't think we're at crossing any lines.  He's also an immense twat.

 

But the twin belief that Lewis is an unbeatable lion but also that he's incapable of doing anything is weird.  And complaining about Red Bull getting punished twice in the race when Mercedes got away with 3 things essentially unpunished this weekend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After yesterday’s fun I would expect the race director (lol) to very clearly remind all drivers of what will not be tolerated in the final race. Ideally he does this publicly as well as in the drivers briefing. No one wants a collision to decide this. Show some damn leadership and take back some control of the situation.



 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, kiroquai said:

I think the majority of Max's problems are caused by three people: Christian Horner, Helmut Marko and his Dad. They've basically created an environment for him like they did with Vettel and it's turned him into being incredibly petulant. It's hard to realise you are doing wrong stuff when you spend all your time being told you're in the right by the people that pay you or bought you up.

 

I'd love to see the guy out of that team and with Ferrari or Mercedes. Very much get the feeling he's a decent dude whose just in a pretty shitty environment. Easy to forget he's the same age as Russell and Leclerc and younger than Gasly and Ocon. Plus, he's one hell of a driver too. If he'd finished that qualifying lap on Saturday it'd have been one of those Senna at Monaco in 1988 kinds of laps that people would have been remembering for decades to come.


this. The people around him are hugely responsible for all this. He’s an incredible talent & all this is actually doing him a huge disservice imho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Masi and his offer. I’d much prefer him to be more this is how it is, don’t like it no probs you can protest but this is our decision. It’s essentially the same thing but the offer just sounds so wrong and weak. The teams know he’s weak and pile the pressure on him to get a better outcome. I really don’t like that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, mexos said:

Masi and his offer. I’d much prefer him to be more this is how it is, don’t like it  no probs you can protest. It’s essentially the same thing but the offer just sounds so wrong and weak. The teams know he’s weak and pile the pressure on him. I really don’t like that.

 

Exactly, it should be "we make and enforce the rules, you abide by them" because situations like yesterday not only make him look weak, like you say, but also keep the conspiracy nuts going

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm firmly of the opinion that grid should have been the original one with the front two swapped but he needed to TELL not ask. What actually happened was he was expertly played by Red Bull who essentially elevated Alpine to a pole they shouldn't have had in order to get the good side of the track.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dudley said:

I mean, Max is aggressive but I don't think we're at crossing any lines.  He's also an immense twat.

 

But the twin belief that Lewis is an unbeatable lion but also that he's incapable of doing anything is weird.  And complaining about Red Bull getting punished twice in the race when Mercedes got away with 3 things essentially unpunished this weekend.

 

I'm not sure I dare, but go on then....

 

As for Max not crossing any lines - he literally brake tested his championship rival on an extremely fast track with lots of blind corners. He didn't cross the line so much as go so far past it the stewards totally forgot where it actually was supposed to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Yeah, I'm firmly of the opinion that grid should have been the original one with the front two swapped but he needed to TELL not ask. What actually happened was he was expertly played by Red Bull who essentially elevated Alpine to a pole they shouldn't have had in order to get the good side of the track.

 


100%
 

You have to respect RB’s game here. They worked him and got a result. F1 is all about exploiting every tiny weakness you can find and they do it bloody well.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:

 

This is such a nonsense line that’s getting thrown about - you have a driver cheating and being punished and the only issue here is the punishment is not being enforced properly.

 

Max was a disgrace today, more so then in the last race and that was bad enough. You can’t go around running people off the road and brake testing them - the board room have let him off.

 

 

 

Actually, I agree, but still stand by my statement, I don’t want to see the championship decided in a board room.

 

I blame the FIA as much, if not more than I blame Max.

There are plenty of rules in F1, rules about rear wings measured within 0.2mm, rules about where to do practice starts and what constitutes a jump start and what doesn't.  How much fuel you should use, and how much has to be left, how much space you should leave other cars and how far alongside you have to be, where the track boundary is, rules on slowing for yellows.

 

The rules however are clearly insufficient.  Team push them so much to try to gain an advantage, drivers do too.

We see track limits here but not there, we see drive around the bollard to safely rejoin here, but not there, similarly, leaving space, causing a collision, benefit of the doubt given even when safety is a concern, a minimal lift under yellows on telemetry is enough to let them off etc.

 

There will always be board room discussions and decisions in F1, but there are way more than there should be, in part due to a bunch of rules that are either too complicated or not clear enough, or just plain missing, and in part due to the culture in F1 of trying to find a way to bend or push the rules.

 

There are incredible similar situations given different names and therefore different rules:

Hamilton's backing off on the restart formation lap (which it turns out isn't called a formation lap, so the rules don't apply) is stupid.  It should have been a penalty, it should be treated as a formation lap, it's as much a formation lap as the sprint qualifying is a race.

Bottas backing up Verstappen prior to pitting is another one.  Both unsportsmanlike activities that don't belong in the sport.

 

Max hitting the brakes is unforgivable if it was deliberate, but I'm inclined to it was just yet another unsportsmanlike thing carried out due to insufficient rules.  I don't believe Max would knowingly have a 100mph+ accident, I honestly think he was simply trying the let him past, get DRS trick (which should also be out ruled).

If the rules said "when instructed to give a position back by the FIA, the driver will let the car past during the next DRS zone, and not attempt to repass for the remainder of that sector" everything would have been fine.

 

Masi negotiating on not even a penalty - I believe he doesn't make that call, he basically weighed in with his opinion before it even got to the stewards and manipulated the grid based on what he thought might be a penalty, is horrific.  1 man with more power than anyone else there, pathetic.  Does Masi even have the authority to move Max back (without a stewards decision backing it).

 

I still don't understand why they didn't revert to the same grid as before as I thought according to the rules red flag = rewind to last completed racing lap.

 

We also had commentators talking about rolling start / safety car starts rather than grid starts, not to mention the track was absolutely unsuitable for those cars to be racing on in the first place.

 

49 minutes ago, kiroquai said:

I think the majority of Max's problems are caused by three people: Christian Horner, Helmut Marko and his Dad. They've basically created an environment for him like they did with Vettel and it's turned him into being incredibly petulant. It's hard to realise you are doing wrong stuff when you spend all your time being told you're in the right by the people that pay you or bought you up.

 

I'd love to see the guy out of that team and with Ferrari or Mercedes. Very much get the feeling he's a decent dude whose just in a pretty shitty environment. Easy to forget he's the same age as Russell and Leclerc and younger than Gasly and Ocon. Plus, he's one hell of a driver too. If he'd finished that qualifying lap on Saturday it'd have been one of those Senna at Monaco in 1988 kinds of laps that people would have been remembering for decades to come.

 

Problem is, if he keeps pulling some of these tricks, who'd want him?





Small edit as I think I've lost my point somewhere...  It should not have to go to the board room as much as it does as if the rules were clearer and sufficient, we'd already know what went wrong and how it should be penalised, and therefore, it'd be less likely to happen in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, again, Coulthard again, loves to bring up his "gentleman's agreements" and it's always been if you're told to let someone pass you move well off the racing line to do so, yet Max's move yesterday was met with "Lewis could have gone either side" :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.