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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


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7 minutes ago, Dudley said:

It is interesting that for someone who idolised Senna to the point of basing his helmet design on him, Lewis is REALLY not happy about racing even a massively sanitised version of Senna.

 

Probably because he always imagined as a kid he'd be the Senna whereas in this battle he is absolutely the Prost.

 

 

Haha this is funny. And bang on. I'd swap massively for slightly mind.

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12 minutes ago, GwiDan said:


Lewis is surely Mansell here. 

 

Ah you're thinking 1991, I'm running the 2 years previously.  I was thinking Prost more as the vet who'd been there, seen that, done that.  Mansell was still trying to win title 1.

 

That seems to fit more with multi champion Hamilton.  Also Lewis whines a lot less.

 

6 minutes ago, mexos said:

 

 

Haha this is funny. And bang on. I'd swap massively for slightly mind.

 

We'll never really know, but I maintain Senna would have put Lewis in the wall on that turn 1 restart rather than dancing off the track.

 

I'm starting to realise how Senna's teammates won races :D

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3 hours ago, McCoy said:

I'm surprised at the current betting odds for the Championship. I'd have thought they should both be pretty similar odds, perhaps with Max having the shorter odds since he wins if they both fail to score points (which is not that unlikely...). 

 

Mercedes have had three wins on the trot but Red Bull looked fast at this track and but for a fraction misjudgement by Max on Saturday might have been able to win the race. Red Bull dominated Abu Dhabi last year with the caveat that Hamilton was still suffering the after effects of Covid. 

 

I think it is 50/50 who wins although the betting markets clearly take a different approach. 

Odds.jpg

 I don’t understand betting never done it does the lower number mean they think Hamilton is favoured?

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Yeah, if you bet £1, you get back the number "number" of pounds.

 

So at Bet365 on the left there, Lewis wins you 44p (nice) and Max £1.75.  Making them think there's a roughly 75% chance of Lewis.

 

But bear in mind these don't relate to the actual likelihood at least not directly, they relate to how many people are betting and to a degree how they have bet if they're trying to balance the books.

 

More Brits will be betting on 44.

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I want Lewis to win because he hasn't won when challenged since 2008 and has done an incredible job to have hung in there this year with someone who is more than a match for him. I think he will and it will be well deserved. 

I want Max to win because the past 7 years have been dull as fuck under Mercedes' car dominance and he'll have done it at the first opportunity with some incredible driving skills. 

Next week is going to be unbelievably tense and pressure filled, I think they should just call it a draw. 

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It's weird to remember Lewis having a teammate who, while clearly not quite on his level, could stay close one engine failure could win it.

 

Like, you could have told me Lewis would retire from every race this year and I'd still only give you 1.44 on Bottas.

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That is a good point, it is weird that Lewis idolises Senna when Max drives much more like him.

 

I find it hard to believe that Lewis was thinking about the DRS line. How did he have time to calculate that?

 

I think Max was 100% thinking about the DRS line though. He'd been told to "strategically" let him past. I think he got frustrated when Lewis didn't come past the way he wanted and that's why he braked. I don't think he intended to cause the accident, the same way I don't think he intended to put it in the wall in quali, but again he got frustrated that he'd lost the lap and got too heavy on the throttle.

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2 minutes ago, GwiDan said:

If Max and Lewis weren’t in F1 and all the other current drivers were still in their current seats, I think it’s likely that Bottas would still not be champion. 

 

Depends who replaces them of course.  But yeah I think a Red Bull #1 support Perez might well be better.

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3 hours ago, Dudley said:

 

Ah, we're back to the "You don't slavishly agree with an entirely pro Mercedes being poor little put upon lambs position and thus you're a Red Bull fanboy" part of the conversation.

 

I do so enjoy those.

image.thumb.png.97332c02e43e03776836ee3b93c61a0f.png.3f39f2b8487b0f6aca07dab547bd9a21.png

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I'm going to suggest that it wasn't the less savoury side of Senna's on-track actions that Lewis idolised but his car handling, speed and passing skills, particularly in the wet, when he wasn't cheating. 

Edit: Yeah, just like Max then, good point. 😁

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13 minutes ago, morcs said:

That is a good point, it is weird that Lewis idolises Senna when Max drives much more like him.

 

I find it hard to believe that Lewis was thinking about the DRS line. How did he have time to calculate that?


Hamilton’s done it before. There’s a video of him battling with Alonso in Canada where they are both slowing down to try and get the DRS on the main straight. He also learns the tracks, remember Max crashed out of Sakhir last year because he didn’t realise the run off at that part of the circuit was gravel, Hamilton would not have mad that mistake.

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2 hours ago, SMD said:

I think we can all agree at this point that anyone who supports Red Bull and/or Verstappen after all this is an unsavoury character who needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Hopefully Hamilton will win next weekend to right the wrongs of this season and we can move on to next season and hopefully Lando's era of domination.

 

Nah.  I do enjoy coming in here the week after a race and seeing the pearl clutchers in full on froth mode, keep up the good fight!

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3 minutes ago, ryodi said:


Hamilton’s done it before. There’s a video of him battling with Alonso in Canada where they are both slowing down to try and get the DRS on the main straight. He also learns the tracks, remember Max crashed out of Sakhir last year because he didn’t realise the run off at that part of the circuit was gravel, Hamilton would not have mad that mistake.

 

Awesome!

 

 

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5 hours ago, jonathanhoey said:

I wouldn’t mind seeing a helicopter shot of the brake test incident, if one exists. Does Max jink left or is he just following the line of the track, is what I’m wondering. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Corranga said:

 

I think this is exactly what has happened. The wiggle is a bit weird, but there is plenty of space to the left.  Lewis hasn't picked a side to pass on, and both are on the brakes.  Max seems to start to brake harder which causes the collision, but I think it's clear that...

Max wants Lewis past pre-DRS zone 

Lewis doesn't want to pass pre-DRS zone

Max doesn't want to go off line

Both could have avoided this, and had the FIA been clearer / more timely, none of this would have happened.

 

 

With basic telemetry is quite interesting.

Hamilton is catching with 30+ kph

Hamilton brakes first staying behind Max

Max then brakes and Hamilton continues to close, gets back on the brakes

Max wiggles a bit, Hamilton doesn't pick a side.

Max brakes more, Hamilton swerves out to the left, but it's too late.

 

 

 


 

That confirms exactly what I said at the time. Max halved his speed. That’s unnecessary to allow a car to pass. 
 

What is the penalty for overtaking under yellow flags?

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5 hours ago, rgraves said:

Given the recent glut of penalties for ignoring yellow flags that have been deployed for seconds, I don't think it's hard to work out why Lewis was initially cautious having not been informed of anything by his team/wheel.

 

Imagine Max had slowed as there was a person/obstacle on-track and Lewis had just ripped past him....


Yes. If he’s not wanting to incur a 5 second penalty or worse. The speed was slow enough to confuse someone who hadn’t been told what was happening. No doubt Max knew that in part. 

 

I’m neither fan boy. I’m never team A or B. I’m team fact and logic. Before any of that fucking nonsense that happens in this thread is directed at me for my opinion. 

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8 hours ago, Corranga said:

 

I think this too, though Sky saying Lewis probably thought there was an incident was just their Hamilton bias showing.

If he thought there was an incident, he should have...

1. Looked at his steering wheel or trackside lights for a yellow flag

2. Asked on the radio

3. Pulled OUT from behind Max to aid his vision, not drive right up to the back of him

4. Back out and not get closer and closer to him

 

He was catching for long enough to know there wasn't an incident. I think simply, he didn't want to overtake pre DRS-zone, which is understandable.

 


Lewis was summoned to the stewards this very weekend over allegedly not slowing for a yellow that he couldn’t actually see, right?  With the farce that this race was I do agree it is possible his first instinct was HAZARD (not necessarily incident or even yellow flag) especially with how poor visibility is in areas and how fast the track is, although in that section he didn’t have a blind bend the possibility of debris isn’t far fetched at all and happened multiple times before any flags deployed.  He could’ve thought “have I missed something?”  You are right he could also have thought “must not go over DRS line first” but in the absence of any comms telling him he was being let through, I don’t know why he would jump to that as option 1?

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16 hours ago, mexos said:

 

Prost really should get more credit than he does imo.

 

Yeah saying Lewis was the Prost wasn't a slight.

 

The trouble is, while Max is no Senna, Lewis is also not good at being the Prost.

 

Both are astonishing drivers, neither are any cop at the external stuff Prost and Senna were so good at.

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I started watching F1 at the wrong time to really appreciate Prost I think. My first full season was 1989 and that year he totally lucked into the title due to Senna, who had spent most of the season being comfortably quicker, having an insane amount of bad luck. Then the way he moaned his way out of Ferrari, followed by the shenanigans that got him into the Williams for 1993 and how many times Senna embarrassed him in an inferior car that year.

 

What I wasn't around for were the years 1982 - 1988 where he made fuel and tyre consumption an art form and was able to go quicker than he had any right to for longer than his fuel and tyres should have allowed. Having subsequently watched either extended highlights or full races for every race in the 1980s, it really is remarkable just how much more he was able to squeeze out of his cars.

 

I think the other thing that really stops people getting misty-eyed over Prost was that he was glacier-smooth all the time. You watch a Senna qualifying lap and it's bursting with mad energy. Prost is like a guided missile gliding serenely and quickly to his target.

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Prost was pretty good at protecting his car too. He drove in the era of super fragile cars. Stick him in the same car as someone like Mansell and watch good old Nige rag the car to death before the chequered as Prost picks up the points. He played the long game more than his contemporaries.

 

As Lewis has developed he too plays the long game. It is an aspect of his driving I really appreciate. Look how far he's comes from the ragged early days.

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  • T Pot changed the title to Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy

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