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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - No refunds for you!


T Pot
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I think it’s because of Drive to Survive. Lots of new fans have only started recently and all they’ve known is Hamilton dominance and want to see something new. Max is the designated golden boy who can do no wrong and this is the consequence. But then everything is tribal there days, I think they might have been better letting the race play out and giving. Hamilton a grid drop at the next race similar to what cost Schumacher his pole at Monaco.

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41 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

When did F1 become so tribal? 

Reading some of the Autosport  and F1 social media comments, you'd have though the two of them had strapped chainsaws to their cars and were trying to recreate a scene from mad max! 

 

It was night and day a racing incident. Two drivers at 180mph going into a corner, they have milliseconds to react and this time they both chose the wrong course of action. It wasn't deliberate or planned or the result of a feud. It was just two guys racing. 

 

I honestly don't understand the literal hate directed at either driver. 

I think it's because we've all seen this before, be it Hill - Schumacher, Villeneuve - Schumacher, Vettel - Webber, Prost - Senna of Hunt - Lauda, younger fans haven't and alot have come from Drive to Survive and I think even Hamilton - Rosberg predates that?

 

Also the world around us become very tribal over the last few years :(

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But I never hated the likes of Schumacher, Vettel and Piquet. There was always a grudging respect for what they'd done.

 

Senna is a different matter, deliberately driving into Prost was a step to far for me. I disliked him. But still never to the point of wanting to see him harmed. 

 

The world is so weird these days. 

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1 hour ago, Sidewaysbob said:

When did F1 become so tribal? 


The moment people started using social media. Not just F1, really - it’s divided pretty much everyone in every way possible.

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1 hour ago, Sidewaysbob said:

When did F1 become so tribal? 

Reading some of the Autosport  and F1 social media comments, you'd have though the two of them had strapped chainsaws to their cars and were trying to recreate a scene from mad max! 

 

It was night and day a racing incident. Two drivers at 180mph going into a corner, they have milliseconds to react and this time they both chose the wrong course of action. It wasn't deliberate or planned or the result of a feud. It was just two guys racing. 

 

I honestly don't understand the literal hate directed at either driver. 

 

cos a massive number of melts have come into sports through social media, all they know is how to be edgelords. it's a load of shite in football and it's a load of shite in motorsports too. reddit and twitter are proper cesspits and i imagine instagram comments are too.

 

also horner has been a massive dickhead over this which hasn't helped.

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2 hours ago, Sidewaysbob said:

When did F1 become so tribal? 

Reading some of the Autosport  and F1 social media comments, you'd have though the two of them had strapped chainsaws to their cars and were trying to recreate a scene from mad max! 

 

It was night and day a racing incident. Two drivers at 180mph going into a corner, they have milliseconds to react and this time they both chose the wrong course of action. It wasn't deliberate or planned or the result of a feud. It was just two guys racing. 

 

I honestly don't understand the literal hate directed at either driver. 

I think Horner’s reaction has caused it to become so, he went in so hard on Hamilton, repeatedl, that it became difficult to remain objective about it, you either agree with him and Max was lucky to walk away from an attempt on his life by a crazed out of control Lewis, or you don’t and feel that Lewis is being hard done by.

 

Personally I think that drivers being disrespectfully aggressive needed to be addressed a couple of years ago and it’s going to get worse especially as it’s not an in-team battle for the title so you can’t sit them down with each other and force them to play nice(ish).

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17 hours ago, ryodi said:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-british-gp-red-flag-saved-hamilton-from-retirement/6633641/
 


Time to change the red flag rules

because Hamilton benefited again. Of course the fixing of repairs during a red flag also helps cars who picked up damage through no fault of their own or might have carbon fibre in their tyres from running through debris but if Hamilton benefits in any way the need to be changed. 🙄

 

I don't think it's due to Hamilton benefitting, but I've always said anyone who repairs their car under red flag conditions should restart from the pitlane. If they had made the repairs during the race they would have suffered for it. I don't think it's fair for the drivers who have run a clean race. 

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I disagree, a red flag means some pretty big shit has happened. Cars could have tyre / car damage from incidents they were or were not not involved in.

 

You could have the marshals clean the track with the cars in the pitlane (untouched) then go out on track and shit their broken wings, bodywork etc all over cleaned track because the teams were not allowed to touch the cars. Cue a safety car or another red flag.

 

In the case of Lewis would have restarted with a wheel that was doomed to fail at any point - so he could have ended up causing a huge crash at literally any point.

 

Yes it's too bad if you lose out because of it, but you can also gain from it too. Even though it is not 100% ideal on the sporting side on safety grounds I am personally happy with it.

 

EDIT: You could say that a red flag purely for weather conditions is different, so you don't get to change anything but... typically weather that bad results in crashes which in turn results in the red flag.

 

@kiroquai @Dudley Out of curiosity, can you recall red flags caused purely by weather, with no accidents? 

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11 hours ago, mexos said:

 

@McSpeed Wait a moment... do I... I think I recognise that voice! 

 

Yup, that's Louis a.k.a. Astroll-Martin :)

 

He actually got a lot of flak on social media back then for asking that question. Talking about F1 fans having been so 'tribal' for some time...

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1 hour ago, mexos said:

I disagree, a red flag means some pretty big shit has happened. Cars could have tyre / car damage from incidents they were or were not not involved in.

 

You could have the marshals clean the track with the cars in the pitlane (untouched) then go out on track and shit their broken wings, bodywork etc all over cleaned track because the teams were not allowed to touch the cars. Cue a safety car or another red flag.

 

In the case of Lewis would have restarted with a wheel that was doomed to fail at any point - so he could have ended up causing a huge crash at literally any point.

 

Yes it's too bad if you lose out because of it, but you can also gain from it too. Even though it is not 100% ideal on the sporting side on safety grounds I am personally happy with it.

 

Yeah, let's assume copse had a wall on the outside, not 100m of airfield.

 

Pretty much the entire field would have run over potentially large chunks of Red Bull.

 

You don't let them repair, you could lose 10 cars.  Like Belgium 1998 which if it happened now in the post-spare car era would have resulted in 6-8 cars starting the race.

 

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1 hour ago, mexos said:

 

@kiroquai @Dudley When can you recall red flags caused purely by weather, with no accidents? 

 

Hmm :sherlock: - I mean, I can't 100% remember if there were any crashes at the 2011 Canadian GP at the point it was red-flagged... maybe? Wikipedia suggests that the 1950 Indy 500, then part of the World Championship, was also red-flagged due to rain but no crashes. Ditto the 1971 Canadian and 1974 Brazilian Grands Prix.

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Yeah, generally if you get to red flags levels of weather there are other problems.

 

Sessions have been cancelled for weather though, eg-  Japan a couple of times.  Generally the first weather problem isn't actually the cars, it's the requirement at most circuits that a medical helicopter needs to be able to fly to the designated external hospital and if it can't, no running.

 

Lightening will also cause this, I don't remember the last time that specifically happened in F1 but it's affected sessions at both the last two IMSA meetings in the US.

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1 hour ago, Dudley said:

To be fair, if I were Horner I would have done exactly the same.

 

Of course if I were Toto, likewise.

I dunno - While you'd obviously expect a team principal to back their driver 100%, Horner's language during, and after, the race was stronger and less measured than you'd usually expect. 

 

Now I can forgive the first few minutes because there was a a scary few minutes where it looked like Max might have been very badly hurt, but he barely stopped short of suggesting it was a deliberate punt/lunge and kept at it. (The TV broadcasting the messages from the pitwall to race control probably didn't help in terms of driving the toxicity.)

 

 

 

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Yeah, I might have measured exactly HOW but the principle of furthering my team even if I have to bend a few actual facts? I do that in my day job anyway :D

 

The point is, when evaluating your opinion of the incident, ignore Horner, ignore Toto, ignore Helmut, ignore... Jonathan(?) from Mercedes.

 

Switch those cars and the content of the messages wouldn't be far different but they'd be coming from different coloured shirts.

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Also crikey can you imagine how this would have gone if you switched the cars, Lewis got dumped on turn 1 by Max and then Max got a free repair because of the red :D

 

EDIT:  "Turn 1"   That's how old school I am!

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1 minute ago, Dudley said:

Yeah, I might have measured exactly HOW but the principle of furthering my team even if I have to bend a few actual facts? I do that in my day job anyway :D

 

The point is, when evaluating your opinion of the incident, ignore Horner, ignore Toto, ignore Helmut, ignore... Jonathan(?) from Mercedes.

 

Switch those cars and the content of the messages wouldn't be far different but they'd be coming from different coloured shirts.


You’re thinking of Jonathan Wheatley at RBR and Ron Meadows at Mercedes-AMG, I think.

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16 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Also crikey can you imagine how this would have gone if you switched the cars, Lewis got dumped on turn 1 by Max and then Max got a free repair because of the red :D

 

EDIT:  "Turn 1"   That's how old school I am!

 

 

Let's see - we may very well get that scenario in the upcoming races. 


Also: High five for turn 1! I too am that old...

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Also crikey can you imagine how this would have gone if you switched the cars, Lewis got dumped on turn 1 by Max and then Max got a free repair because of the red :D

 

I've been thinking that a lot. Obviously impossible to know but I think with the roles reversed we'd basically have the same outcome in reverse. I think Max would maybe have got even more shit than Lewis for it though. I also think Max wouldn't have apologised, and would have celebrated whilst Lewis was "in hospital", even though he criticised that.

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Korea 2010 was a safety car start then red flag after a few laps due to the conditions, admittedly I got that from Wikipedia because I'd forgotten Korea even had a Grand Prix. The race I was looking for was Europe 2007 which was also red flagged for rain but not before multiple spins, always remember Winkelhock leading by miles in the Spyker that day.

 

Think I remember Korea now, as it might have been the race where Webber and others where moaning a lot on the grid before the restart, maybe Massa got in a panic about helmets? So after waking up early for the race, excitement at rain, fans where not pleased with drivers moaning and waiting until almost inters. The old thread quickly lost that early enthusiasm.

 

I can't recall when the change happened and the prospect of rain went from exciting to regular safety car running. Not sure if it was the change to parc ferme rules and race day set-ups, it's been so long.

 

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