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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - No refunds for you!


T Pot
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10 hours ago, Dudley said:

 

The problem is, it'd unfairly penalise as many people as the current rule unfairly benefits.

 

 

The entire history of F1 calls you out.

 

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3 I can think of, straight off the top of my head in enough detail to grab pictures with a google search.  All caused by a car that was dangerous not being pitted.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure the second one was just a catastrophic failure that wouldn't be spotted before hand regardless. So that's not a valid point. 

 

The point I'm trying to make is the rules are already there for unsafe cars. The teams will bring them in or be made to bring them in to be fixed if they're deemed unsafe. They would lose track time by performing that pit. I bet they always go through a choice of "is it worse if we stay out or come in". 

 

Making a team start from the back at a restart if repairs are made under redflag is no different than making a team pit for repairs during a race. I don't know why you're all jumping down my throat saying there will be major accidents all the time. There won't, as all it will do is extend the same descisions the team make during the race to during the flag too.

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They don't pit for repairs during a race if they think they can possibly get away with it either, that's what caused 1 and 3.

 

You don't know what they knew about 2, because they were not stupid enough to tell us.  Because then they'd have to pit.

 

But you're skipping the key point.

 

The rule would not make it any more fair on anyone, because just as many innocents would be caught up as "guilty" people get a freebie now.

 

But it certainly wouldn't make anything more safe, in fact its undeniable it'd make things less safe, we can debate how much.

 

So at the absolute, absolute best, while it sounds good it's making things less safe for no benefit, and that's the best case scenario.  Which is why it's like it is now. I too think Lewis was fantastically lucky with it, and indeed has gained 42 points from lucky red flags this season (and potentially another 18 he threw down an escape road at Baku).  But he could just as easily be on the receiving end of said bad luck, for instance in the season bad luck probably cost him a championship to Rosberg.

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16 hours ago, mexos said:

 

Well Sunday is a great example. One of the rims on on Ham's car was damaged and it would probably have given up at some point. What if it was impossible to tell from a visual inspection or the data they had? The car would have gone out and (maybe) given up at high speed (potentially) causing a huge accident.

 

 

And teams and drivers will not always do 100% the right thing for safety if there is a strategic advantage to be had. What if your front wing took a knock, the team think 70/30 it will be ok and take a gamble on it staying together because a good result is on the line but it lodges under a cars wheels and causes a huge accident? 

 

 

We now also start red flagged races with a grid start - the most dangerous part of a race. What if Ham's car had had the failure just before the first corner, done a Berger/Estoril/93 and speared across the track on the restart. If you are doing a grid start you want to be sure all the cars are safe enough for it.

 

 

15 hours ago, mexos said:

 

 

Drivers will happily ping around at racing speed with damaged, unsafe cars, I've seen it plenty. Raikkonen from a few years ago (Suzuka I think) is a good example. I'm pretty sure most would take a risk on a marginal part if it meant them getting a good result.

 

15 hours ago, mexos said:

these things have a tendency to come around. Max will probably benefit from it some day too. 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:

 

You can not tell if there is damage to carbon fibre unless you scan it, you also can not test for stress fractures on wheels without taking them off and scanning them - you are trying to claim that a low tech series that allow cars to run around fall apart should have the same rule set as the most complex racing series on the planet!? 

 

People have died in F1 because teams take gambles with safety and just look at tour bike racing if you want examples of CF failures where teams thought on a visual inspection all was ok.


Sorry for the big multi quote. I tried to trim them down a bit but I’m on my phone so it’s awkward.

 

Anyway the big example that comes to my mind was when Max crashed on the way to the grid and they rebuilt the front of the car before the race. 
 

At the time I was adamant that he should have had to start from the pit lane regardless. Not because I’m not a fan of Max, but because what happens if something lets go at the front end of the car once it gets loaded up during the scrap for turn 1? I was envisaging a multi-car shunt.

 

I found out afterwards that they have a portable ultrasound machine that can quickly scan the car in situ for structural weaknesses that aren’t visible on the surface. Apparently they did that and were satisfied none of the remaining parts had damage (and sure enough the car didn’t fail, and made it all the way to the end of the Grand Prix).

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  • T Pot changed the title to Formula One 2021 - DRAMA
14 hours ago, ryodi said:

You have to go to YouTube to watch it, the embedded player doesn’t work with F1 content.

 

Oh wow I never knew this about videos on the forum! I've been skipping them all cause I thought they'd been taken down by the time I got to the thread :facepalm:

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1 minute ago, John0 said:

 

Oh wow I never knew this about videos on the forum! I've been skipping them all cause I thought they'd been taken down by the time I got to the thread :facepalm:

It's not the forum, it's specifically F1 not allowing video embeds

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12 minutes ago, wev said:

It's not the forum, it's specifically F1 not allowing video embeds

 

I seeeeeeee 👍

 

This analysis by Palmer is great. The guy is a top class pundit! I have stolen his entire opinion and will now be using it as my own.

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Yeah JP has been putting out good stuff for a while now. I still think he is underused. 
 

In the euros the one good thing ITV did was they had some guy who was the rules guy - they’d get his opinion on var incidents etc. I think it would be a brilliant use of JP. If he can work quick mind. Doing real time analysis is quite different to spending hours after the event.

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17 minutes ago, jonathanhoey said:

He commentates every race (and practice and quali session) live on BBC Radio 5.

 

Ahhh. So that is why. F1 need to get him out of that beeb contract then! :ph34r:

 

Glad they still do commentary on 5. The only radio I've listened to in the last 10 years is their F1 commentary when I've been at a race.

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Finally took the chance to get F1 in VR working on assetto corsa. I have 4 observations.

 

1 - I have no idea how any fucker passes into Copse

2 - Mirrors are useless

3 - You don't see the middle halo strut after the first 5 seconds, but boy does it tower above you.

4 - Everyone should do this, a full F1 field in VR is a fucking great experience with a wheel and pedals.

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Another strategic blunder from Red Bull.

 

As you can see from the pixels, Max (bad) would never has a clear view because Sir Lew is already alongside.

 

 

SIRLEW.thumb.jpg.dafe44e14469d7ebe5f7841008832b61.jpg

 

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1 minute ago, Dudley said:

Finally took the chance to get F1 in VR working on assetto corsa. I have 4 observations.

 

1 - I have no idea how any fucker passes into Copse

2 - Mirrors are useless

3 - You don't see the middle halo strut after the first 5 seconds, but boy does it tower above you.

4 - Everyone should do this, a full F1 field in VR is a fucking great experience with a wheel and pedals.

 

I'd love a PC and VIVE, but I owe a bank half a million quid so my only hope is a PSVR2 and GT7. 

 

 

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Yeah hopefully that VR mode will be at least a little better, have a full field at least because that's a huge thing that makes it cool.

 

Like it's surprisingly relaxing when I was in a GTE and half the LMP2 field passed me down mulsanne.

It was less relaxing when the other half turned up at the Porsche Curves!

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6 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

1 - I have no idea how any fucker passes into Copse

 


That is because it is not possible to do, any racing driver would know that you absolutely don’t attempt it - it’s the fastest corner of the whole world championship, after all - and frankly anyone who would attempt it should be prosecuted for attempted murder.

 

Were you not paying attention at all?

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Just now, Dudley said:

Yeah hopefully that VR mode will be at least a little better, have a full field at least because that's a huge thing that makes it cool.

 

Like it's surprisingly relaxing when I was in a GTE and half the LMP2 field passed me down mulsanne.

It was less relaxing when the other half turned up at the Porsche Curves!

 

Sitting in the 2017 Merc in GT in VR for the first time almost brought a tear to the eye. It's such a pity the VR mode in GT Sport was just time trial.

 

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1 minute ago, jonathanhoey said:


That is because it is not possible to do, any racing driver would know that you absolutely don’t attempt it - it’s the fastest corner of the whole world championship, after all - and frankly anyone who would attempt it should be prosecuted for attempted murder.

 

Were you not paying attention at all?

 

Thanks for the belly laugh. Thread delivers!

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Even reading it back myself, I can’t not hear it in Horner’s voice :lol:

 

As for the halo, it’s absolutely true. You can no more see it while you’re driving than you can see your own nose.

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15 minutes ago, jonathanhoey said:

Even reading it back myself, I can’t not hear it in Horner’s voice :lol:

 

He really is the worlds biggest stirrer. Just jumps in with his big wooden spoon, turns the pot a bit then jumps back out. 

 

I love it. 

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17 hours ago, wev said:

I'll admit the severity of the crash could/should play a part in deciding whether or not a driver should receive points on their license.

 

I'm not sure it should. Though I guess there's some interpretation here.

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56 minutes ago, T Pot said:

 

He really is the worlds biggest stirrer. Just jumps in with his big wooden spoon, turns the pot a bit then jumps back out. 

 

I love it. 

 

We need it. F1 has always needed a pantomime villain. Alonso, Seb ( :wub:) have gone all nice these days, so Horner is having to pick up the slack. A task he is doing admirably.

 

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22 minutes ago, mexos said:

 

We need it. F1 has always needed a pantomime villain. Alonso, Seb ( :wub:) have gone all nice these days, so Horner is having to pick up the slack. A task he is doing admirably.

 

 

And then give it a couple of years if Mazepin is ever fighting the midfield, and then he can become the new one! At least when he's up fighting amongst other cars people will have a legit reason to complain of drivers being run off the road. 

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