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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - No refunds for you!


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1 hour ago, wev said:

I always forget to manage my team...

 


Me too, so surprised to see myself up there in second place! May have to continue leaving it be as I’m sure if I was actively changing it I’d be doing much worse!

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4 minutes ago, Swallow said:

What car was Montoya in that was that much faster than the Ferrari? Or was it that cars got a better slipstream back then rather than the 'dirty air' we hear about now?

 

The walrus faced Williams with full BMW support (FW26). Schumacher looked unusually erratic in those opening laps. The design was binned off mid season apparently due to the weight of it's conk and the issues with height due to getting it through crash testing.

 

Back in the days when Williams still had money and sponsors, you could almost pinpoint it as where the rot set in....

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I've always loved that Williams, didn't know about the weight and crash test issues, just assumed it wasn't as good as the noses and wings everyone else was running at the time

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I love hearing old drivers talking about corners and saying "you don't pass there" or "don't you think you were being a bit over enthusiastic trying to pass there" ... Yeah, maybe in your day but times change

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3 hours ago, RFT said:

Max is an odd case, he's been in the sport for years but as we say, still within the age band where drivers get considered "young" and not fully formed.

 

There really hasn't been any other driver like him, dropped into a top team from day 1 at such a young age. Except Lewis, who went straight to McLaren, but Lewis was 22 when he started in F1, not 17.

 

So, it's really hard to apply concepts such as "maturity", nebulous as they are, to him. Should he be driving as we expect a driver in his 7th season to do, or like a 23-year old?

 

 

That's because his age puts him in the young/not fully formed bracket; the prefrontal cortex is on average still developing until around age 25 and this is the area responsible for a lot of higher reasoning, decision making, planning, impulse control.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/  And a nice little part on a graphic on that link "the ability to balance short-term reward with long term goals" - in F1 terms, the ability to think it might not be best to go for it on that turn when you're probably going to carry momentum a little later for the safer option.

 

All of this seems very relevant to the discussions happening around the weekend's events!

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1 hour ago, kiroquai said:

One thing is for sure: he will carry on like this as long as his bosses are Christian Horner and Helmut Marko. We saw with Vettel how the environment at Red Bull could make even a decent guy act like a totally spoilt child. They will never reel him in or criticise him and Max will hence never feel like what he's doing is wrong.

 

Despite the penalty yesterday I am still seeing it as both of them having some blame. It's the inevitable end result of not only the championship battle and their own pride, but also this frankly bollocks practice of squeezing drivers out and leaving it up to the other party to avoid an accident. They're all guilty of it - every single driver on the grid has done it, and it's been a common practice since the days of Schumacher. I remember what Schumi did to Montoya on lap one at Imola in 2004 and how much of a 'thing' it was and how much controversy it generated. These days people would hardly bat an eyelid at it (for those not familiar, link is below although it won't embed as it's on the official F1 channel).

 

 

 

 

Of course this year Schumacher would have been driving through the pits for that one thanks to the Overtaking Prevention Committee.

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8 hours ago, wev said:

So, does anyone know if/when a championship contender hasn't had to take an engine penalty since that rule was introduced?


boy’s asleep/at home/at school I’ll ask though. Any driver? Or specifically red bull/Mercedes? 

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The championship contender since that rule was introduced, and certainly since it was reduced basically means "Mercedes" and historically they've spent a lot of races until this year with the engine turned right down and rarely hitting each other so I imagine it's been much less of an issue.

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So what's the verdict on the sprint race format so far? 

I have enjoyed the spicing up of Fridays with qualifying (for the sprint race :facepalm:) and the excitement before the start of the sprint race, and the sprint races themselves I have quite enjoyed, bizarrely. They have shaken up the grid a bit, which seems to be one of the stated objectives. Having said that, I think overall, I prefer the regular format better. The sprint race does cheapen qualifying somewhat, imo. I have a feeling we're stuck with it at selected tracks again for next year and maybe it will work better with the new cars? 

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Sprint races done like this are horrible. Like a mouldy slice of cheese in your sandwich. I'm all for new ideas but this is not a good one.

 

Either have 2 sprint races (with the 2nd race reversed grid akin to the touring cars) instead of 1 longer one, or just have it like we're used to.

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I am a fan of a second race. 

 

HOWEVER

 

Right now the format is not right. Let's face it reverse grids will n e v e r happen. I would like to see it though. Based on championship order + some other modifiers.

 

The sprint race is a race. Forget using it for qually. Give more points. etc.

 

I would also protect the current GP format at all costs. I don't want x2 1 hour races. Sunday should be a long race imo.

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I think there is certainly room for 'something' to happen on the Saturday and I do quite like having a point of interest on the Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That said, the sprint as it is hasn't impressed me. It needs to be something more to justify its existence, rather than just being a starter-sized portion of what we are getting for a main anyway, just with all the interesting sauces taken away (strategy, pitstops).

 

I don't think they will get away with shortening too many race weekends to two days, which is what I was originally going to suggest. That Friday at most circuits is a chunk of extra income they need to offset the frankly exorbitant hosting fees they're all signed up to. Maybe if Liberty can swing circuits better deals (like they seem to have done with Imola) then a Saturday/Sunday condensed weekend would just make things more interesting with comparative lack of track-time before qualifying sure to mix grids up relatively often.

 

I don't think there's an easy answer to how a standalone separate race could work, but my suggestion is this: FP1 and Qualifying on Friday. FP2 and Reverse Grid Sprint on Saturday, with the grid order for the race being set by reverse championship order and not reverse qualifying order. Then, on Sunday the race, which has its grid set by qualifying as it always has been, and offers the lion's share of the points. Oh, and make sure the reverse grid race offers something like 10-9-8-7-6 etc for the top ten, and a point for the fastest lap so enough drivers can score an even spread of points that it won't seesaw the main championship around too much.

 

Actually, the more I re-read that, the more I really like it. Just going to call Ross Brawn, brb.

 

EDIT: Hah, me and @mexosthinking alike it seems :)

 

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Ha!  ^_^

 

You'd need some sort of modifier so that it's not Mazespin starting on pole every damn sprint race. 

 

If I was Ross I'd be tempted to make it for a set time for the race instead of distance. Silverstone felt too long and Monza too short.

 

What I'd really like to see on Friday though is...

 

mercedes-benz_100649844.jpg

 

Each manufacturer gets a turn in supplying the cars for the weekend.. 

 

20 race calendar. Each driver gets their turn to have pole, second, third etc on the grid till they've started in all starting positions. Relaxed stewarding - so it's not a demolition derby, more BTCC.

 

Use that as your grid order for a sprint race!

 

Ross is still ringing engaged, @kiroquai pls hurry up I need to speak to him quick!

 

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I'd also like to see the continued focus on there being something on each day. 

 

I'm not sure on using the sprint for quali, I don't think it's shaken up the grid enough as is.

 

I wonder if the sprint is just too short? Make it a bit longer, no mandatory pit stops but just long enough that the harder tyre would have to be managed whilst giving the teams the option to use any tyre they wish. With points up for grabs (maybe the old 10 for first etc until you get the top 6)

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Unless I've got it wrong, the idea of the sprint race was supposed to add action that was missing in the grand prix - overtakes, pushing harder, that sort of stuff. It's been the opposite cos they're essentially doing first stints and managing based on that. The chequered flag just acts like a red flag and all it does is make practice pointless and qualifying a farce.

 

Either they do something different with it to force a jumbled grid or they fix the regs in which case the sprint race isn't needed.

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An additional race should be reverse grid. It gives everyone something to cheer for - if you like one of the slow cars you get to see how long he can hold off the quick ones to try and score some points, and if you like the quick cars you get to see them try to make progress through the field. 

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3 minutes ago, davidcotton said:

Could the sprint be done on the Friday to aid qualification on the Saturday ?  


You mean really mix it up?

 

reverse grid, each position gains you an additional 0.1s card off your qualifying times. You can play your cards in any of the qualifying rounds, but only play any one card once.
 

So you get 20 cards - 2 seconds for first, 19, 1.9 for second and so on.

then before the start of each qualifying session everyone has to decide how many cards to play.

you could adjust the time per track.

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1 hour ago, kiroquai said:

I think there is certainly room for 'something' to happen on the Saturday and I do quite like having a point of interest on the Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That said, the sprint as it is hasn't impressed me. It needs to be something more to justify its existence, rather than just being a starter-sized portion of what we are getting for a main anyway, just with all the interesting sauces taken away (strategy, pitstops).

 

Could a mandatory pit stop work in Sprints? Really make it so everyone pushes on the softs. That's the issue with the sprints so far. They are about the length when in the race you've recovered from the exciting start and are waiting for the pit stops to spice things up again. Except, instead of the pit stops the race just suddenly ends. 

 

24 minutes ago, GwiDan said:

An additional race should be reverse grid. It gives everyone something to cheer for - if you like one of the slow cars you get to see how long he can hold off the quick ones to try and score some points, and if you like the quick cars you get to see them try to make progress through the field. 

 

Reverse grid race on Saturday would be good. Not to decide the grid (that should still be qualifying) but for points. Although don't know how the points structure would really work. 

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6 hours ago, mexos said:


Ha!  ^_^

 

You'd need some sort of modifier so that it's not Mazespin starting on pole every damn sprint race. 

 

If I was Ross I'd be tempted to make it for a set time for the race instead of distance. Silverstone felt too long and Monza too short.

 

What I'd really like to see on Friday though is...

 

mercedes-benz_100649844.jpg

 

Each manufacturer gets a turn in supplying the cars for the weekend.. 

 

20 race calendar. Each driver gets their turn to have pole, second, third etc on the grid till they've started in all starting positions. Relaxed stewarding - so it's not a demolition derby, more BTCC.

 

Use that as your grid order for a sprint race!

 

Ross is still ringing engaged, @kiroquai pls hurry up I need to speak to him quick!

 

 

Great idea.

 

 

Except redbull don't actually make any cars so they could have a race as to how much redbull energy piss water you consume before you slide into a diabetic coma. The winning order is decided by how quickly you can get discharged from the medical centre.

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