Jump to content

Does Nintendo's attitude put you off buying their stuff?


Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, bear said:

Just a few quick points.

 

-Microsoft's revenue isn't $900 billion a year. They are a massive company that make a lot of money but $900 billion revenue? No. 

 

-Nvidia were trying to do the whole high powered handheld that can easily hook to your TV with the Shield Portable but it never really took off. It was neat though and the Shield tablet was great. I wish there was a modern equivalent but I don't think we'll ever get that. :(

 

You're right, I've just checked. It's 143 billion. But my point still stands I think.

 

And isn't the switch basically the Nvidia shield inside? Same Tegra chip or something?

 

Dell/Alienwarel were planning this - but I don't know what happened to it.

 

image.jpeg.6171ab854e7c1a013ee9b70d3232c47a.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it will always bother a large number of people than Nintendo make the games Nintendo wants to make rather than anyone else.

Considering Nintendo uses NES and SNES games as a bonus for being an online member it's not that surprising they've gone after emu sites, is it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, therearerules said:

If it only sold as it did the first Christmas, then fad would be fair, but it was a decent machine with some good games that continued success (unless we also say wii fit was a fad). I do wonder if a sequel without that clunky tablet would have done better (couldn't have done worse), but then we wouldn't have the wonderful switch.

 

Yeah, exactly. I can see how fad might apply if Nintendo had sunk into obscurity after the Wii U didn't do that well, but they seem to be absolutely smashing it with the Switch. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

Dunno how this has descended into any criticism automatically means Nintendo's entire approach is invalid to the point where someone feels the need to say 'ehh they're doing their own thing leave them alone'. 

 

I don't care about hardware or comparing specs of consoles. I think of them as a videogame developer first and I expect them to develop games and explore the medium and come at it from different angles whilst not losing the playability people expect. 

 

Are people angry about it really or is this topic made once every 3 years and people say the same things as before in slightly different ways. 

It’s that whole Radiohead comparison which again bears fruit here, there are those that can’t handle that the band went in a different direction with Kid A and despite it being fairly obvious they are never going to back they’re still hopeful. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's the opposite, Nintendo have never really changed but we have. We're all middle aged and have lost the child like wonder that comes with those first few years of gaming.

 

Nintendo have continuously innovated from the moment they started making electronic games, the fact the Wii was a shock was as much a failure of our own imaginations as it was a success of Nintendo's.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Flanders said:


No disrespect to the Wii - just that it did have a period of intense demand followed by a pretty sharp drop off. And like I said, why didn’t Nintendo make a Wii 2 instead of pivoting to the Wii U which as others have mentioned in this topic was more like a prototype Switch?

 

Not only is that literally what the Wii U was, but Switch has gyro, pointer and waggle built into the joy cons - Nintendo have actually been building on what the Wii did for several generations now, as well as incorporating new, unconventional ideas like HD rumble. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Stanley said:

It’s that whole Radiohead comparison which again bears fruit here, there are those that can’t handle that the band went in a different direction with Kid A and despite it being fairly obvious they are never going to back they’re still hopeful. 

 

I don't get this comparison though, what defines Nintendo? Mario or Metroid? Mario Kart or F-Zero? Kirby or Majora's Mask? 

 

Radiohead did grunge well but hadn't truly found their voice by album 2. They didn't move away from anything, they just moved towards being who they really are. It was about artistic integrity and desire rather than anything else. Nintendo's approach is entirely about making money, they're not exploring the medium tonally or game design wise (separate from control input) as they did in some of those games which carved out new genres pretty much. 

 

I thought you was gonna say something about how it isn't about delivering what people want, it's about delivering what people didn't realise they needed. The hysteria around Radiohead says more about peoples narrow definition of music. They still created big guitar driven tracks. Knives Out is probably my favourite Radiohead song. 2+2=5, Electioneering, Bodysnatchers, Jigsaw Falling Into Place, I'm not sure really what people love about The Bends that isn't evident in their stuff since. They cut down the almost wallowing melodrama and got to the essence of the emotion they were trying to express. Thom Yorke feels music so deeply he's incapable of phoning it in or going through the motions of what is expected in a track. A Moon Shaped Pool sounds more natural than anything they've done, and against The Bends it shows their maturity as musicians who don't think or try, they just do. 

 

Someone saying they want Nintendo to do more interesting stuff doesn't mean 'ditch accessibility and make violent shoot em ups for 'adults'. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wii certainly was a fad. To the mainstream at least, everyone seemed to have a Wii with Wii sports and Wii fit, it was in every home, then it wasn’t. Nintendo would have made a straight Wii 2 if they saw that sales were not falling, they didn’t make a WiiU due to desire to innovate, they are a hugely conservative company and don’t change things drastically for the sake of being quirky. The WiiU was their answer to the Wii’s success and falling popularity, the rise in tablet gaming (which was eating into their casual consumer base they had won over with the Wii) and to the difficulties of creating traditional games with such a limited control method which the Wii had. And was a mess of a console because it tried to be everything to everyone. 
 

Despite the huge success of Wii motion controllers at the time it’s barely exists now. The Switch has a toned down version but if you don’t care about motion controls you wouldn’t realise it even had it. Both Sony and MS had brief successes with their copycat attempts but once the mass market hunger for motion controls died they quickly moved on. I’d guarantee that today a straight update to the Wii would be a massive failure.

 

The Switch was Nintendo’s answer to increasing development costs and the shrinking handheld market. Building a console that links their home and held handheld markets together was a natural and sensible decision. They also nailed the hardware IMO. It feels more like a natural progression from the GameCube/GBA era of Nintendo hardware than the lifestyle gaming and novelty controls of the DS/Wii/3DS/WiiU era.
 

I also find the criticism of being underpowered strange. It’s underpowered if you compare it to the Xbox Series/PS5, but if you’re looking for that level of performance in games then a Nintendo console is never going to be for you. It sits comfortably between the 360/PS3 and base PS4/xbone which is quite an achievement for a handheld console from

2017. Fuck it can play Diablo 3 and Witcher 3 as a handheld, that’s pretty insane. For a handheld it’s an immense leap from what was before and a significant jump from the WiiU as a home console. Also it hosts series and games that are traditionally for handheld consoles, it’s one of its charms that it’s home to both handheld and home style of games which wouldn’t work its it’s aiming to be an Xbox in your pocket. Especially as these developers are smaller studios with smaller budgets. It’s cool that there’s still a platform that provides full releases for these. 
 

I do have my criticism of Nintendo’s 1st party games although not being a WiiU owner their first party releases have felt more fresh. Also it’s the first Nintendo console since the GameCube in which has such good third party support that you don’t have to focus on Nintendo’s own output if you don’t have to. 
 

Roll on the Switch 2 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Oh Danny Boy said:

Despite the huge success of Wii motion controllers at the time it’s barely exists now.

 

Apart from the gyro controls on both the Switch and PS5.....I mean, it's literally one of the first things many people ask "does it have gyro controls".

 

To say it's gone away is totally blinkered.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Loik V credern said:

 

I don't get this comparison though, what defines Nintendo? Mario or Metroid? Mario Kart or F-Zero? Kirby or Majora's Mask? 

 

Radiohead did grunge well but hadn't truly found their voice by album 2. They didn't move away from anything, they just moved towards being who they really are. It was about artistic integrity and desire rather than anything else. Nintendo's approach is entirely about making money, they're not exploring the medium tonally or game design wise (separate from control input) as they did in some of those games which carved out new genres pretty much. 

 

I thought you was gonna say something about how it isn't about delivering what people want, it's about delivering what people didn't realise they needed. The hysteria around Radiohead says more about peoples narrow definition of music. They still created big guitar driven tracks. Knives Out is probably my favourite Radiohead song. 2+2=5, Electioneering, Bodysnatchers, Jigsaw Falling Into Place, I'm not sure really what people love about The Bends that isn't evident in their stuff since. They cut down the almost wallowing melodrama and got to the essence of the emotion they were trying to express. Thom Yorke feels music so deeply he's incapable of phoning it in or going through the motions of what is expected in a track. A Moon Shaped Pool sounds more natural than anything they've done, and against The Bends it shows their maturity as musicians who don't think or try, they just do. 

 

Someone saying they want Nintendo to do more interesting stuff doesn't mean 'ditch accessibility and make violent shoot em ups for 'adults'. 

:hmm:

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, rgraves said:

 

Apart from the gyro controls on both the Switch and PS5.....I mean, it's literally one of the first things many people ask "does it have gyro controls".

 

To say it's gone away is totally blinkered.


And as I said, blink and you would miss it. Motion controls was the main meal with the Wii, it’s barely a side dish now. Games are not built around them and unless you’re playing fitness boxing or something your experience with the Switch wouldn’t be lessened by not ever attempting to use them. 
 

They are nothing more than a relic and no one would be shocked if they were dropped from the Switch 2

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Oh Danny Boy said:


And as I said, blink and you would miss it. Motion controls was the main meal with the Wii, it’s barely a side dish now. Games are not built around them and unless you’re playing fitness boxing or something your experience with the Switch wouldn’t be lessened by not ever attempting to use them. 
 

They are nothing more than a relic and no one would be shocked if they were dropped from the Switch 2

So apart from all the games that use it it’s barely a thing, ok :unsure:

 

It’s just better now that’s all. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Stanley said:

So apart from all the games that use it it’s barely a thing, ok :unsure:

 

It’s just better now that’s all. 


I’ve got 50+ switch games and apart it being an optional tack on in Skyrim or Mario Odyssey it doesn’t register at all. I use it in Wii boxing so I’m grateful it still exists but to think it’s prominence is comparable to the Wii in which was all motion controls is pretty silly, you could count the Switch games that need motion controls or are better for having motion controls on one hand.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My mum has no interest in video games, in fact she actively despises them and thinks they are a bad thing I general. Yet in 2008ish she bought a Wii.  Because the Wii wasn't a video game console, it was a family tennis game.  She got Guitar Hero at some point but the Wii became a one off thing we did at Xmas and was boxed up into the loft shortly after.  There was a correlation with the Wii having massive hardware sales but a less than stellar attachment rate with games and accessories.  the console went so mainstream so quickly but it didn't get the long tail off you'd imagine because it didn't sell to video game fans specifically, lots of mums and dads and grans got into it with no intebtion of buying a library of other games.  A major success in one way, but a software collection where, for every resident evil4 there were 50 cooking / pony / ninjabread / showjunp / Mary Kate and Ashley / Barbie / more cooking / my lovely puppy etc etc. The Wii's mass market success lead to more shovelware than I've seen on any other format. (Resident Evil 4 is outstanding on the Wii, and I'm surprised the 1st / 3rd person plus lightgun mechanism wasnt used more.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Oh Danny Boy said:


I’ve got 50+ switch games and apart it being an optional tack on in Skyrim or Mario Odyssey it doesn’t register at all. I use it in Wii boxing so I’m grateful it still exists but to think it’s prominence is comparable to the Wii in which was all motion controls is pretty silly, you could count the Switch games that need motion controls or are better for having motion controls on one hand.

It’s just become more refined, when Wii launched it was brand new and as such kind of crude - hence the term ‘waggle’ such was the sensitivity of the thing not to mention the lack of experience with which developers approached it back then. 
 

You’re right these days it’s more subtle or optional - but it’s still there, just much more refined and advanced. 
 

I mean the Switch even launched with a game based around HD rumble, 1-2 Switch, with mixed results, but it was clear even from that just how far the technology had come. 
 

Breath of The Wild, Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 2, ARMS, Ring Fit Adventure, Fitness Boxing, Just Dance, Super Mario Party, Mario Kart 8, Mario Tennis, Labo - there are loads of games that use it or are built around it - I look forward to its next iteration as the PS5 pad sounds pretty damn awesome already too :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m sad gyro aiming has never taken off as well as I’d like it to and become standard.  I’m trying to figure out whether Nintendo was the first ones bring us gyro aiming.

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, simms said:

I’m sad gyro aiming has never taken off as well as I’d like it to and become standard.  I’m trying to figure out whether Nintendo was the first ones bring us gyro aiming.

 

I don't think so - assuming we're discounting Wii remote style aiming with gyro support, but rather pure gyro-aiming as with Splatoon, then I think Vita games got there first. I know the Vita Uncharted (2011) game certainly had it, as did later games like Killzone: Mercenary (which used it brilliantly, but all the reviews either ignored it or complained about the unintuitiveness of gyro aiming controls until Splatoon came around...)

 

There's also the possibility some PS3 games may have supported it, what with the sixaxis being all about gyro controls, but I don't know whether any shooters in particular did.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, dumpster said:

My mum has no interest in video games, in fact she actively despises them and thinks they are a bad thing I general. Yet in 2008ish she bought a Wii.  Because the Wii wasn't a video game console, it was a family tennis game.  She got Guitar Hero at some point but the Wii became a one off thing we did at Xmas and was boxed up into the loft shortly after.  There was a correlation with the Wii having massive hardware sales but a less than stellar attachment rate with games and accessories.  the console went so mainstream so quickly but it didn't get the long tail off you'd imagine because it didn't sell to video game fans specifically, lots of mums and dads and grans got into it with no intebtion of buying a library of other games.  A major success in one way, but a software collection where, for every resident evil4 there were 50 cooking / pony / ninjabread / showjunp / Mary Kate and Ashley / Barbie / more cooking / my lovely puppy etc etc. The Wii's mass market success lead to more shovelware than I've seen on any other format. (Resident Evil 4 is outstanding on the Wii, and I'm surprised the 1st / 3rd person plus lightgun mechanism wasnt used more.

 

9 hours ago, moosegrinder said:

 

From what I understand the attach rate of software after someone was sold a console was tiny. The software numbers never added up to the consoles sold. Also it's not really like the Wiimote was ever used to decent effect outside of Nintendo developed games and no other company copied its technology.

 

I honestly believe the Wii was a very unique console for the time. Probably wouldn't say it was a fad, but I think it was definitely an anomoly.

 

Anyone got a source for the Wii's tiny / less than stellar attachment rate?  According to this, it's higher than PS3 (slightly) and 360.

 

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Software_tie_ratio

 

Are more reliable sources contradicting it?

 

Edit: here's a link from Nintendo themselves confirming an attachment rate of over 9, which is one of their best.

 

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13/01/2021 at 23:41, Bojangle said:


Nah.

 

On 13/01/2021 at 23:56, Ninja Doctor said:

Nope. 

 

On 14/01/2021 at 00:31, layten said:

nope

 

On 14/01/2021 at 06:40, deerokus said:

No. 

 

On 14/01/2021 at 08:24, Harsin said:

In a world with the likes of Ubisoft still making huge bank, Nintendo's stuff doesn't really cause a ripple on my moral radar.

 

This. All of this. Also - to add a different slant on the quoted responses - not really.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tomcat said:

 

 

Anyone got a source for the Wii's tiny / less than stellar attachment rate?  According to this, it's higher than PS3 (slightly) and 360.

 

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Software_tie_ratio

 

Are more reliable sources contradicting it?

 

Edit: here's a link from Nintendo themselves confirming an attachment rate of over 9, which is one of their best.

 

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/

Yeah, I don't know where @dumpsteris getting his information from, buy I always read that the attachment rate was really good, because it was initially the argument the Wii's detractors made (not least in the sales thread on here) but constantly seemed to be refuted.

 

7 hours ago, Wiper said:

 

I don't think so - assuming we're discounting Wii remote style aiming with gyro support, but rather pure gyro-aiming as with Splatoon, then I think Vita games got there first. I know the Vita Uncharted (2011) game certainly had it, as did later games like Killzone: Mercenary (which used it brilliantly, but all the reviews either ignored it or complained about the unintuitiveness of gyro aiming controls until Splatoon came around...)

 

There's also the possibility some PS3 games may have supported it, what with the sixaxis being all about gyro controls, but I don't know whether any shooters in particular did.

 

Quite a few PS3 games used the Sixaxis controls, Lair was the poster boy game for them. Heavenly Sword used them too, I remember because I hated them in it and it made a not very good game just that little bit more frustrating.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm getting my numbers from misremembered anecdotal comments of the era, but I'm sure there was an issue.  Like, on paper the attach rate was very good but when you broke it down there were many users that had a collection of £4.99 shovelware and many people who were not gamers and didn't buy anything at new release full price at all. The huge mass market appeal of the console itself and Wii Sports (bundled) meant that huge numbers of non-gamers bought it. That lead to publishers having huge expectations of high potential sales, knocking out loads of shovelware which didn't sell in the numbers they imagined because many users had no intention of buying other games. As hundreds of different game titles ended up in bargain bins the overall attach rate grew but it wasn't the healthy marketplace that it appeared to be on paper. Or something.  I can't remember.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, dumpster said:

I'm getting my numbers from misremembered anecdotal comments of the era, but I'm sure there was an issue.  Like, on paper the attach rate was very good but when you broke it down there were many users that had a collection of £4.99 shovelware and many people who didn't buy anything at new release full price. The huge mass market appeal of the console itself and Wii Sports (bundled) meant that huge numbers of non-gamers bought it. That lead to publishers knocking out loads of shovelware which didn't sell in the numbers they imagined because many users had no intention of buying other games. As hundreds of different game titles ended up discounted to clear the overall attach rate grew but it wasn't the healthy marketplace that it appeared to be on paper. Or something.  I can't remember.

 

So many users had a collection of shovelware but shovelware didn't sell in the numbers publishers imagined?  Seems a bit contradictory.

 

A look at the million-seller list on Wii doesn't have that much shovelware in it, and has many games, such as Mario Kart Wii, which probably more or less held their value throughout the generation.  The much shorter PS3 list, even discounting Wii Sports, certainly has plenty of games which were available much more cheaply than full price during the PS3's life.

 

I think there's probably nothing wrong with the Wii attachment rate, and the belief that it was so low is almost certainly down to gaming discussion forum speculation about what casual gamers buy and play, and getting it wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/01/2021 at 08:58, Wiper said:

 

 

Still, none of that's enough to make me write them off - the most bothersome thing for me, ethically, is the damage to game archiving/availability that comes with their laser focus on emulation sites, and that's not enough to push me over the edge. The thing that would make me write them off would be if they turn out to have a crunchtastic and/or abusive working culture in the vein of Naughty Dog or Ubisoft, the same attitude I take with other developers and publishers.*

 

 The free pass that Japanese companies get from people concerned about this recent "crunch" issue just because the western games media don't seem to have the ability to cover them as easily as EA/Ubisoft or at all (and Japanese games journalism died about 20 years ago) is borderline willfull ignorance. 

 

It's Japan. Unless you explicitly know that a company is a rare exception to the rule, you should start from the assumption that they're pressured to do a totally unreasonable level of overtime.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Every console manufacturer currently stands accused of profiting from forced factory labour and everyone is giving them a free pass on that, but I suppose not buying shiny new hardware would be a more painful sacrifice than pretending to boycott shite Ubisoft games we never had any intention of playing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tomcat said:

So many users had a collection of shovelware but shovelware didn't sell in the numbers publishers imagined?  Seems a bit contradictory.

I mean that some company releases Ninjabread Man for £39.99, it's rubbish and completely fails at retail but then when it hits £4.99 in a dump bin at a garage forecourt it shifts some units, leading to a better overall attach rate for the Wii. The gamers bought all the excellent Mario Galaxies and Resident Evils but there was a sizeable market that didn't treat it as a console and were happy with the Wii Sports and the occasional impulse purchase of something cheap.  It was significant that Nintendo bucked the trend for loss-making hardware and were selling the console itself at a profit. The Wii tapped into a market for people who bought the console for the family at Xmas and packed it all away after new year.

 

But like I say, I haven't researched , I'm just spouting what I remember being said at the time, I'm probably wrong.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.