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The Falcon and The Winter Soldier - on Disney+ from 19 March


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I think Bucky/Winter Soldier has a metal arm + brainwashing + a super soldier serum variant, yes. The plot of Civil War is: people being upset about the consequences of the Ultron movie plus people being upset that Bucky was an international assassin for 50 years plus people being upset that there's super soldier serum and that Hydra have it and already used it successfully once (on Bucky.)

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What I don't get is that Steve needed Vita rays but no-one else does. Guess that's 75yrs of progress in the MCU.  Also no one's turned lumpy like Abomination or scary face like the Redskull.

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29 minutes ago, Delargey said:

Does Bucky have serum? I thought he just had a robot arm?


A less effective version of it than was given to to Steve but yes, he's enhanced by the super soldier serum. TBH, the actual MCU films are terrible about explaining this. In CA:TFA, he's captured and when  rescued by Steve there is at least one throwaway line about Zola doing "experiments" on him. In CA:TWS, it's expanded upon, to show that the serum is the only reason he survived the fall from the train and the loss of his arm. The brainwashing and cryo-freezing then comes in.

 

10 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

What I don't get is that Steve needed Vita rays but no-one else does. Guess that's 75yrs of progress in the MCU.  Also no one's turned lumpy like Abomination or scary face like the Redskull.

Steve's vita ray bombardment is what turns him from super skinny midget (my height) into the Cap adonis body. The new serum, that we see in the TV show, grants the same level of power but with no outside physical change, which is why Karli and the rest of the Flag Smashers look like normies.

Abomination was a result of the super soldier serum being partially Gamma-radiated, I believe, which causes the Hulk-esque transformation. The Red Skulls transformation is explained away as 1) the serum not being perfected by Erskine yet and 2) the nature of the man being "enhanced" to - the "good man becomes great, bad man becomes evil" speech - so he literally changes into a hell-faced Nazi to reflect his inside.

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14 minutes ago, Glasgowchivas said:

2) the nature of the man being "enhanced" to - the "good man becomes great, bad man becomes evil" speech - so he literally changes into a hell-faced Nazi to reflect his inside.

 

I liked that element of it.  It's a bit sad that they've just ditched it.

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3 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

 

I liked that element of it.  It's a bit sad that they've just ditched it.

I don't know if they have ditched it. They made a deal of Walker and Battlestar talking about the effect of the serum in the last episode and what they thought would happen to change you. It was just less explicit that before.

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3 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

I liked that element of it.  It's a bit sad that they've just ditched it.

 

I don't think they have, necessarily. Zemo was, as someone said upthread, talking in the most recent episode about how Steve is the outlier in his dislike for super-soldiers and their "supremacy". You can see nu-Cap already doing stuff I don't think he would have pre-serum, and they precede that with the chat about how they've had to do dark things in Afghanistan. 

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I don’t think you need to have seen any previous Marvel films to understand this show and learn who the characters are, the plot isn’t exactly by highbrow or complex, but I absolutely think you need to have a decent recollection of the relevant films to feel engaged with the characters, who they are, and their motivations. Zemo for example would probably feel a bit deus ex machina if you’d only ever seen this show - the protagonists get stuck so they magically break this guy out of prison that knows all the answers and keep the story rolling. 

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2 hours ago, monkeydog said:

What I don't get is that Steve needed Vita rays but no-one else does. Guess that's 75yrs of progress in the MCU.  Also no one's turned lumpy like Abomination or scary face like the Redskull.

 

Hulk was created by the super serum too. Banner swapped vita-rays for gamma-rays. 

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2 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

 

I don't think they have, necessarily. Zemo was, as someone said upthread, talking in the most recent episode about how Steve is the outlier in his dislike for super-soldiers and their "supremacy". You can see nu-Cap already doing stuff I don't think he would have pre-serum, and they precede that with the chat about how they've had to do dark things in Afghanistan. 

 

I hate when they allude to shit like that to provide 'depth' or tortured scars and PTSD to a Vet.

 

They're basically saying Captain America is a war criminal.

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This is one terrible show and it’s meandering around like one of those Marvel Netflix series now. Sam isn’t a strong enough character to be a lead, his only trait is he was a friend of Caps & they haven’t really developed anything else for him. Bucky was pretty badass in the movies, but he’s just another chump now. The pair of them have zero chemistry together & I get the feeling the whole show was commissioned on the basis of them having one mildly amusing scene in the car back in a movie from seven years ago, and that was a dry chuckle at best.
 

There could have been a good storyline with the new Cap if they show had just stayed focused, but it spends way too long on tedious garbage like the flag smashers & that really really really terrible actress is getting way too many scenes. People are supposed to be following her as some sort of revolutionary? Give me a break, I wouldn’t follow her down the street if she was giving out free money. Matt Hancock is more convincing (also a better actor I presume too). Scenes exist just to move characters around to new locations where they continue to do nothing interesting. Maybe Ubisoft is writing this. 
 

Not even sure I can be bothered with the last two episodes. Hopefully someone will do an edit on YouTube that only has Zemos scenes. Daniel Bruhl is too good for this shit. 

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28 minutes ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

This is one terrible show and it’s meandering around like one of those Marvel Netflix series now. Sam isn’t a strong enough character to be a lead, his only trait is he was a friend of Caps & they haven’t really developed anything else for him. Bucky was pretty badass in the movies, but he’s just another chump now. The pair of them have zero chemistry together & I get the feeling the whole show was commissioned on the basis of them having one mildly amusing scene in the car back in a movie from seven years ago, and that was a dry chuckle at best.
 

There could have been a good storyline with the new Cap if they show had just stayed focused, but it spends way too long on tedious garbage like the flag smashers & that really really really terrible actress is getting way too many scenes. People are supposed to be following her as some sort of revolutionary? Give me a break, I wouldn’t follow her down the street if she was giving out free money. Matt Hancock is more convincing (also a better actor I presume too). Scenes exist just to move characters around to new locations where they continue to do nothing interesting. Maybe Ubisoft is writing this. 
 

Not even sure I can be bothered with the last two episodes. Hopefully someone will do an edit on YouTube that only has Zemos scenes. Daniel Bruhl is too good for this shit. 

Totally agree with all this. 

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What is wrong with you people? I have seen The Winter Soldier and Civil War dozens of times- not only are they my favourite MCU movies, they're among my favourite ever movies full stop. Zemo is one of the best MCU villains to date, bettered only by Loki. Emily Vancamp is gorgeous and I can't comprehend anybody forgetting her....

 

.....but, yes, this series is crap.

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3 hours ago, hub2 said:

 

I hate when they allude to shit like that to provide 'depth' or tortured scars and PTSD to a Vet.

 

They're basically saying Captain America is a war criminal.


Not to get too political but I would be surprised at the true level of war crimes committed by US and UK forces in Afghanistan. Hell, even the Australians have been caught running wild so yeah, that Cap probably is a war criminal

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2 hours ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

This is one terrible show and it’s meandering around like one of those Marvel Netflix series now. Sam isn’t a strong enough character to be a lead, his only trait is he was a friend of Caps & they haven’t really developed anything else for him. Bucky was pretty badass in the movies, but he’s just another chump now. The pair of them have zero chemistry together & I get the feeling the whole show was commissioned on the basis of them having one mildly amusing scene in the car back in a movie from seven years ago, and that was a dry chuckle at best.
 

There could have been a good storyline with the new Cap if they show had just stayed focused, but it spends way too long on tedious garbage like the flag smashers & that really really really terrible actress is getting way too many scenes. People are supposed to be following her as some sort of revolutionary? Give me a break, I wouldn’t follow her down the street if she was giving out free money. Matt Hancock is more convincing (also a better actor I presume too). Scenes exist just to move characters around to new locations where they continue to do nothing interesting. Maybe Ubisoft is writing this. 
 

Not even sure I can be bothered with the last two episodes. Hopefully someone will do an edit on YouTube that only has Zemos scenes. Daniel Bruhl is too good for this shit. 


This is a pretty good review of the show but I still enjoy it.

 

But that actress is not just terrible but horribly miscast, she has a unique look which must be why she keeps getting high profile roles but this is the first time I’ve seen her act. The accent doesn’t help.

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Why are Frosty and the Winter Snowman even hanging out? I mean, I watch these dutifully, but it’s a lot of running and jumping around similar sets.

 

Enfys Nest seems to be simply reprising Enfys Nest, along with her gang. Zemo is like a baddie from the 1960’s Batman show in the way he just slinks off and disappears while everyone’s having a punch-up. Why is baddie Captain America even in Spain/Italy/made up place?

 

Seems to have been made on the cheap. First episode had some great SFX but it’s been more like SFX from The Sweeney since then.

 

Still, it breaks up the telly watching on a Friday. Mandalorian it ain’t though.

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Snowman was upset that frosty gave away the shield which was a dumb decision.

 

Then stuff happened and now they’re just hanging.

 

Last ep was clearly filler to save some money and give some character growth after 3 eps where they blew the budget.

 

I expect the last two will be more heavy action as now everything has been set up.

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It feels ridiculous that the US government would have their new Captain America going anywhere, let alone ops in a foreign country, without some large support team. Somone's going to cite Steve Rogers, but when he wasn't on the lam he tended to have a team and (post-SHIELD) he was working quasi-independently for a billionaire funded PMC rather then directly for the government. The scenes where him and his mate are just mooching around Eastern Europe on their own like the Likely Lads on holiday in cosplay feel really chintzy and cheap.

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Yeah. He seems to be acting like Jack Bauer gone rogue, when you’d expect everything to be incredibly carefully stage managed for PR purposes. He’d have been the public face of a raid on the super solider HQ, but as part of a team of 20 managed from a control room in the Pentagon.

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It all feels very mediocre. My hopes were pretty low for this since it was announced but Wandavision kind of got them raised.

 

The first episode was good, the intro to Sam (Albeit whilst killing lots of people.) looked great, demonstrated his skillset well. Without his wings though, he is a bit shit isnt he...They do nothing to sell him as anything other than a set of wings, at least give the guy some clever fight scenes to show he can do more.

 

The flashback to Buckys killing machine days was good, it reminded you what an utter badass he was. It appears though when he isn't in winter soldier mode he is as equally shit as Sam without his wings He just looks like he absolutely cannot be arsed with it all.

 

In terms of building up the characters Buckys man out of time schtick was good, I was kind of hoping to see more of that. Sams boat loan was meh, and giving the shield up makes him look like a twat from day one.

 

Zemo (Who is by some distance the best thing in this.) has gone from under the radar genius, having suffered huge personal loss deciding to bringing down the avengers, to a cliché moustache twirling, bane coat wearing billionaire.

 

Wandavision brought me round completely by showing more of two characters that I little affection for.

 

This has pushed me the other way, Ive spent an extra 160 (?) minutes with them so far. And I actually care less about them now, than I did when they got dusted.

 

The Flag Smashers are embarrassing but new Cap elevates my interest somewhat.

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22 hours ago, Delargey said:

Does Bucky have serum? I thought he just had a robot arm?


The Russos confirmed that he got a ‘bootleg’ version of the serum, which was the best Hydra was able to come up with before they stole the new formula from Howard Stark. So, he’s supposedly a bit weaker than someone with the pure serum (backed up by both Cap and Isiah beating him), but that gets muddied when you throw in his powerful arm and extensive training. 
 

As we just saw, he can wipe the floor with people who have a stronger serum but no real training. 

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14 hours ago, womblingfree said:

Why are Frosty and the Winter Snowman even hanging out? I mean, I watch these dutifully, but it’s a lot of running and jumping around similar sets.

 

My favourite bit was in the last episode when they went from a courtyard to an inside scene, then had a fight and the bad lady ran away and they lost track of her. Then it cuts to the bad lady having a conversation clearly shot in the upper level of the courtyard they'd just come from. 

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19 hours ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

This is one terrible show and it’s meandering around like one of those Marvel Netflix series now. Sam isn’t a strong enough character to be a lead, his only trait is he was a friend of Caps & they haven’t really developed anything else for him. Bucky was pretty badass in the movies, but he’s just another chump now. The pair of them have zero chemistry together & I get the feeling the whole show was commissioned on the basis of them having one mildly amusing scene in the car back in a movie from seven years ago, and that was a dry chuckle at best.
 

There could have been a good storyline with the new Cap if they show had just stayed focused, but it spends way too long on tedious garbage like the flag smashers & that really really really terrible actress is getting way too many scenes. People are supposed to be following her as some sort of revolutionary? Give me a break, I wouldn’t follow her down the street if she was giving out free money. Matt Hancock is more convincing (also a better actor I presume too). Scenes exist just to move characters around to new locations where they continue to do nothing interesting. Maybe Ubisoft is writing this. 
 

Not even sure I can be bothered with the last two episodes. Hopefully someone will do an edit on YouTube that only has Zemos scenes. Daniel Bruhl is too good for this shit. 

On the plus side, at least it’s not 12 episodes long like the dreadful Netflix shows.

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1 hour ago, Fierce Poodle said:

On the plus side, at least it’s not 12 episodes long like the dreadful Netflix shows.

I thought Daredevil and JJ season 1 were better than decent. 

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On 12/04/2021 at 09:38, Uncle Mike said:

 

Without having watched Winter Soldier and also Civil War, none of this series can make much sense at all, can it? You have no idea who Falcon or the Winter Soldier are, you don't know Zemo or Sharon. Even having watched every Marvel movie, I don't really understand Zemo's perspective on things, or really remember who he was/what he was doing. I don't recall if that's Winter Soldier or Civil War, mind you.

 

This is exactly the same with the comics and I can't say it was ever a problem there.   

 

If a character I didn't know appeared in a crossover I'd just look them up.

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