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The Falcon and The Winter Soldier - on Disney+ from 19 March


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25 minutes ago, Alask said:

I imagine Zemo went to the same place each day and waited for him to turn up, seems the obvious place to look for him and what else has Zemo got?

 

He's a sad kind of story now, railed against super powered people due to his country and family being destroyed. Saw half the population of the universe wiped out due to super powered people and then watched them returned again by super powered people. He must go around thinking, WTF is anyone meant to do with all this shit? The entire marvel universe is pretty much the MAD scenario writ large. You can't not have the supes, because if you haven't got any then someone else will and they might just chose to end your existence.

 

In theory essentially every government in the world ought to be in the biggest arms race we've ever seen to create as many and as powerful supes as can be imagined.

 


And now he’s...

 

Spoiler

Going to The Raft. The Prison run by Thunderbolt Ross. Who also hates superheroes.

 

What a coincidence.

 

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I was in two minds whether to even bother this week, but I’m glad I did as that was easily the best episode so far. I agree with all the things everyone enjoyed so I’ll just bring things down by saying I can’t help feeling the moral of this story looks like being all over the place. The US govt/military treated Isiah and loads of others like shit so the answer is to work for them and wear their flag costume to show how things have improved? As I said the other week, it’s unrealistic to expect a Disney production to deliver a coherent critique of American exceptionalism and racism, but then they go there anyway. Which is brilliant but frustrating when they pull their punches.

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1 hour ago, Popo said:


Interesting. By what metric? 

 

https://variety.com/vip/wandavision-audience-bigger-than-netflixs-bridgerton-in-january-data-suggests-1234913691/

 

https://ew.com/tv/the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-biggest-disney-plus-debut/

 

50 minutes ago, Delargey said:

How did Bucky find Zemo? 

 

He mentioned the Sokovia memorial in the last episode and they showed it in the recap.

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He must have hung around for hours daily. I’ve a real problem with Sam and the shield 

Spoiler

I always feel he’s just a cosplayer more than a suoerhero, he can’t even tighten up a nut with a spanner for gods sake. Just hand it over rather than trying to fake being heroic in a training montage and doing some capoeira moves :)

 

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1 hour ago, Broker said:

 

Why did he even bother to escape then?

 

Did he literally crawl through the sewers so he could stand by a statue for a few hours/days?

Weird.

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Like most people in here, I did enjoy this week’s episode after not enjoying the last two much, but it still feels like a really strange show that’s not sure if it wants to be a serious drama or the A-Team, seemingly flipping between them at random. 


In today’s episode for example: 

 

Spoiler

Some scenes are really great, like the Isiah one, but then you also have this big cliffhanger of Zemo escaping, only for them to seemingly recapture him 10 minutes down the road, with almost no effort, making the whole escape a bit AlanPartridgeShrug.GIF. Then the Wakandans say they’re going to match him off to The Raft, which judging by all the breakouts seems less secure than most normal prisons. Also, surely the Wakandans would want him in one of their high tech prisons where they can keep an eye on him? He did kill their king after all. Handing Zemo over to the uS government seems weird? 


Maybe I’m just over thinking it. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, jon_cybernet said:

Like most people in here, I did enjoy this week’s episode after not enjoying the last two much, but it still feels like a really strange show that’s not sure if it wants to be a serious drama or the A-Team, seemingly flipping between them at random. 


In today’s episode for example: 

 

  Hide contents

Some scenes are really great, like the Isiah one, but then you also have this big cliffhanger of Zemo escaping, only for them to seemingly recapture him 10 minutes down the road, with almost no effort, making the whole escape a bit AlanPartridgeShrug.GIF. Then the Wakandans say they’re going to match him off to The Raft, which judging by all the breakouts seems less secure than most normal prisons. Also, surely the Wakandans would want him in one of their high tech prisons where they can keep an eye on him? He did kill their king after all. Handing Zemo over to the uS government seems weird? 


Maybe I’m just over thinking it. 
 

 

 

I'm sure in the episode before 

Spoiler

they said the were taking him back to Wakanda.

 

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I think the whole is a bit baggy and paced unevenly, there’s some great parts but then there are scenes of just nothing. I find myself tuning out of this repeatedly then getting into it when something hits.

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9 minutes ago, macosx said:

He must have hung around for hours daily. I’ve a real problem with Sam and the shield 

  Hide contents

I always feel he’s just a cosplayer more than a suoerhero, he can’t even tighten up a nut with a spanner for gods sake. Just hand it over rather than trying to fake being heroic in a training montage and doing some capoeira moves :)

 

 

Hey, I will not hear a word said against capoeira: the sexiest form of dance fighting!

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13 minutes ago, macosx said:

He must have hung around for hours daily. I’ve a real problem with Sam and the shield 

  Reveal hidden contents

I always feel he’s just a cosplayer more than a suoerhero, he can’t even tighten up a nut with a spanner for gods sake. Just hand it over rather than trying to fake being heroic in a training montage and doing some capoeira moves :)

 


Yeah, that was my main problem with the idea of Sam being Captain America. He’s a good man, and a good soldier, but it was being a good man, a good soldier, and having the serum that made Steve Rogers exceptional. I think the writers are aware of this and will make efforts to address it with.... 

 

Spoiler

The new suit from Wakanda. Which will no doubt be fashioned from vibranium (at least partially) and provide far more protection than standard armour. I bet they’ll ease back from making it Black Panther levels of power, but there’ll likely be some generous augmentations to Sam’s standard capabilities. 

 

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Yeah, 

Spoiler

 I was expecting some sort of nanobot, Ironman type strength suit until I saw the Falcon toy earlier in the thread. Looks like leather again with small bits of armour but with flashy Wakandan tech wings.

 

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7 hours ago, SonOfSoAngry said:


And now he’s...

 

  Hide contents

Going to The Raft. The Prison run by Thunderbolt Ross. Who also hates superheroes.

 

What a coincidence.

 


Hmmm, now that you mention that name.

 

spacer.png

 

For those who don't know, The Thunderbolts were a superhero team formed to fill the gap when The Avengers sort of went to a different comics company for a bit disappeared. They were led by this guy, Citizen V.


spacer.png

 

Except he turns out to be.

 

spacer.png

 

And the entire thing is a grift by a team of supervillains.

 

If Marvel Studios fancy doing their version of The Suicide Swuad then this show is a good setup and the team name would make more sense. The MCU has tended to murderise it’s villains at the end of the films, so I'm trying to think who's still about to fill out the ranks? Off the top of my head.

 

  • The Vulture (a pre-costume Scorpion also had a brief role in Homecoming)
  • Abomination (already coming back for She-Hulk I think)
  • Ghost (although she seemed fully redeemed at the end of Ant Man & The Wasp)
  • Baron Mordo (probably want to keep him for the films and two barons is one too many barons)
  • Jeff Goldblum (lol)
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8 hours ago, Delargey said:

 

Why did he even bother to escape then?

 

Did he literally crawl through the sewers so he could stand by a statue for a few hours/days?

Weird.


Also - Bucky helped him escape prison in the first place. Did Zemo do anything very bad while he was out, other than help them hunt the flag smashers and run away with the intention of being caught? Kinda seems like he’s been dumped once he outlived his usefulness. 

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10 hours ago, Delargey said:

 

Why did he even bother to escape then?

 

Did he literally crawl through the sewers so he could stand by a statue for a few hours/days?

Weird.


I’m not 100% what the intention was, but I guess maybe he wanted to visit the memorial in person as he’d only have had the chance to read about it? Civil War and this have made it clear that Zemo isn’t operating on ordinary villain motivations of wanting to control the world or whatever. He’s primarily driven by emotion, so maybe it was just important to him to go there before he ended up back in prison.

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5 hours ago, Harsin said:


Hmmm, now that you mention that name.

 

spacer.png

 

For those who don't know, The Thunderbolts were a superhero team formed to fill the gap when The Avengers sort of went to a different comics company for a bit disappeared. They were led by this guy, Citizen V.


spacer.png

 

Except he turns out to be.

 

spacer.png

 

And the entire thing is a grift by a team of supervillains.

 

If Marvel Studios fancy doing their version of The Suicide Swuad then this show is a good setup and the team name would make more sense. The MCU has tended to murderise it’s villains at the end of the films, so I'm trying to think who's still about to fill out the ranks? Off the top of my head.

 

  • The Vulture (a pre-costume Scorpion also had a brief role in Homecoming)
  • Abomination (already coming back for She-Hulk I think)
  • Ghost (although she seemed fully redeemed at the end of Ant Man & The Wasp)
  • Baron Mordo (probably want to keep him for the films and two barons is one too many barons)
  • Jeff Goldblum (lol)

Yeah its been hugely rumored we're going to see the seeds of the Thunderbolts appear, as many have speculated we're going to see Ross doing a Fury and recruiting his own team.

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1 hour ago, Broker said:


I’m not 100% what the intention was, but I guess maybe he wanted to visit the memorial in person as he’d only have had the chance to read about it? Civil War and this have made it clear that Zemo isn’t operating on ordinary villain motivations of wanting to control the world or whatever. He’s primarily driven by emotion, so maybe it was just important to him to go there before he ended up back in prison.

 

There wasn't really a need for him to go back to prison, he unless he wanted to make amends for making the WS kill people, but I can't remember him expressing any particular regret for that in this. I guess he wanted to be killed at the end of civil war?

 

His escape seemed to imply something else, it kinda felt like the writers wanted to have certain scenes but didn't know how to make them fit the timeline.

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This had some texture to it, but it does feel like they put three or four different takes on the premise in to the Marvel sausage machine and did not give two shits about whether they worked together.

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1 hour ago, Harsin said:

Was a bit of an odd choice to have a scene where Sam was throwing the shield expertly and then do a montage of him struggling to chuck it.

I thought the same, was the training scene set before? Was very odd. 

 

Best episode yet, the interaction between the two leads felt so much more natural. The series is still all over the place but I actually found this episode quite enjoyable. Wyatt Russell is the best thing about it, his story is the most interesting now. 

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2 hours ago, Harsin said:

Was a bit of an odd choice to have a scene where Sam was throwing the shield expertly and then do a montage of him struggling to chuck it.

 

I thought the same, I guess the first scene they're just casually throwing it slowly or something? Then in the montage (two montages in one episode btw!!) he's properly throwing it and incorporating his flips etc. I still don't get how the shield works by the way, does it have Stark/Wakanda tech built in? Magic stuff like Thor's hammer? Or is that just how physics works? 

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With Steve I just wrote it off as it being a combination of his superpowers and the vibranium. In this where it seems any schmoe can pull off Marvel vs Capcom combos with it, fuck knows.

 

When Kurt Russell's uncanny valley son is making his new knock-off shield during the credits, surely it should just clang off a wall randomly and fall down the first time he throws it, like if you threw a hub cap or dustbin lid, since it's not made of vibranium.

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That’s just how it works. In The First Avenger it comes across as Rogers gradually getting more proficient with it, but by Civil War they’re cracking jokes about how it doesn’t obey the laws of physics.

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5 minutes ago, Azrael said:

 

I thought the same, I guess the first scene they're just casually throwing it slowly or something? Then in the montage (two montages in one episode btw!!) he's properly throwing it and incorporating his flips etc. I still don't get how the shield works by the way, does it have Stark/Wakanda tech built in? Magic stuff like Thor's hammer? Or is that just how physics works? 

As Spider-Man said, that shield doesn't obey the laws of physics at all.

 

I think it's just one of those comic book things you just have to live with.

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On 17/04/2021 at 08:02, Harsin said:


Hmmm, now that you mention that name.

 

spacer.png

 

For those who don't know, The Thunderbolts were a superhero team formed to fill the gap when The Avengers sort of went to a different comics company for a bit disappeared. They were led by this guy, Citizen V.


spacer.png

 

Except he turns out to be.

 

spacer.png

 

And the entire thing is a grift by a team of supervillains.

Spoiler

Is that Goliath the same character which Laurence Fishburne played in Ant-Man & The Wasp? Or one of those same codename, different individual situations?

 

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