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Spider-Man No Way Home - Xmas 2021


teddymeow
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8 hours ago, Thwomp said:

I've just come back from seeing this, and I thought it was awful. It was worth seeing for the obvious reason(s), but apart from the fan service it was dire.

 

The only bit that stirred any kind of emotion in me was 

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Tobey getting stabbed. I was thinking "they'd better not kill MY Spiderman!".

 

Have you checked your pulse? Sounds like you may be dead inside.

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You were ragging on the objectively brilliant Hawkeye in the other thread? Is it high expectations for something that won’t happen or a depth that won’t be there that lets you down? Or a pre determination to rag before viewing? Genuinely curious, as maybe these comics films aren’t really for you?

 

I sorta had the same for Spidey, too much second hand comment on how it’s the best thing, emotional rollercoaster,  gonna blow you away, plus the leaks.
Was expecting Endgame epic, didn’t get that. Felt underwhelmed and didn’t go along with the series of bad decisions on screen. But I suppose we got something friendly neighbourhood Spider-man through and through. Which is fair enough. 

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37 minutes ago, mikeyl said:

You were ragging on the objectively brilliant Hawkeye in the other thread? Is it high expectations for something that won’t happen or a depth that won’t be there that lets you down? Or a pre determination to rag before viewing? Genuinely curious, as maybe these comics films aren’t really for you?

 

I sorta had the same for Spidey, too much second hand comment on how it’s the best thing, emotional rollercoaster,  gonna blow you away, plus the leaks.
Was expecting Endgame epic, didn’t get that. Felt underwhelmed and didn’t go along with the series of bad decisions on screen. But I suppose we got something friendly neighbourhood Spider-man through and through. Which is fair enough. 

I hadn't watched any trailers nor read anything, anywhere, about this apart from some of the early pages of this thread, so I went in largely blind and without any hype.

 

There was definitely no pre-planned ragging - I had better things to do on Christmas Eve than see a film I had decided I wouldn't like - and as I've said in many different threads, I really like Holland in the role.

 

Likewise with Hawkeye, I'd not read anything and only seen a single trailer - I was really looking forward to it - but I don't think I had unrealistic expectations for either. 

 

I think I am just very tired of the Marvel formula. Both this, and Hawkeye, to me felt very safe and didn't really do anything challenging*. My spoiler Ed thoughts sum up why this didn't work for me at all and similar to the Hawkeye thread this is getting almost universal praise in here, so I accept it is more my tastes than anything it is doing inherently wrong.

 

I will still watch the next one with the hope that it will wow me though, I just won't pay much attention to the general word of mouth. 

 

*

Spoiler

I suppose some would regard May's death as unexpected/challenging etc, but it did nothing for me for two reasons: 1/ As I said previously, she has been used in these films as a peripheral plot device at best so I had no emotional attachment to her, I feel she was wasted as a character (Aunt May from the Maguire series was more central to those films, for example) and 2/ The whole 'trying to help Osborne' was so obviously going to go bad and neither Ned nor MJ were going to buy the farm, so who else could they bump-off without harming future films? Whilst I wouldn't have thought she would die before I went into the cinema, as soon as he turned up at her shelter I thought she was done for. 

 

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Marvel get a lot of passes because, for me and the nerds, up to 50% of the Marvel High is going oh cool! I’m seeing that thing that you read in the books. I don’t really want anything challenging, and it’s not the genre that has scope to, look at the comedy DC have made in trying to force depth and gravitas. They are all competently made soap operas for me.

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2 hours ago, mikeyl said:

Marvel get a lot of passes because, for me and the nerds, up to 50% of the Marvel High is going oh cool! I’m seeing that thing that you read in the books. I don’t really want anything challenging, and it’s not the genre that has scope to, look at the comedy DC have made in trying to force depth and gravitas. They are all competently made soap operas for me.

I never read comics as a kid except for Transformers for a little bit and Spider-Man so I have no real investment. I just see these films for what they are - largely average movies that rely heavily on identikit plots and super heroes hitting each other.

Having said that, I completely understand how exciting it must be to see these characters you loved as kids come to life.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, mikeyl said:

Marvel get a lot of passes because, for me and the nerds, up to 50% of the Marvel High is going oh cool! I’m seeing that thing that you read in the books. I don’t really want anything challenging, and it’s not the genre that has scope to, look at the comedy DC have made in trying to force depth and gravitas. They are all competently made soap operas for me.

I'm the same as @strider here - I've never read comics so a lot of the little nods to stuff that has transpired over the 30/40/50+ years in them is lost on me. I expect having that knowledge does make it more exciting - not just for what you are seeing right now, but understanding what foundations are being laid for the future - but I've found the films that work the best don't lean too much into that (although perhaps they all do and I just don't know it.)

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3 hours ago, Stigweard said:

Well I've never read a comic either and not having that knowledge doesn't make it any less exciting for me.

Nobody said it would so I don't know what point you think you are countering?

 

The point was that it might be even more exciting if you got all the little references to stuff that happens in the comics.

 

Anyway, the overwhelming majority of people in here loved it, a few of us didn't - it's all good and I imagine we'll all be in line to see the next one regardless.

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I’ve never read a comic either.
 

Spoiler

I’ve also never seen either of the Garfield movies or Spider-Man 3.


But I still absolutely loved it. It hit the right notes over and over and every character is well defined and likeable or sympathetic. It’s so hard to achieve that. Compare to the Matrix 4…!

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On 17/12/2021 at 09:05, Ork1927 said:

Empty screening at 9.45 - I've got a lot of job work to do/last day of peace in house before kids are home for weeks (or maybe months), promised Wife I'd do some DIY/need to wrap kids Christmas presents while they aren't here. I watched it less than 48 hours ago.

 

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


I did go again last Friday and it was still tremendous on a second viewing.

 

First half was better as no longer slightly annoyed about seeing the trailers and got to notice lots of little details. Second half was excellent again even with knowing what was coming.

 

One great thing I noticed on second viewing was 

 

Spoiler

During ‘that’ scene when the Andrew Garfield appears. MJ throws bread at him and then threatens to do it again and he tells her not to.

 

But, on second viewing I noticed that when he crawls on the ceiling to get the cobweb - she throws another bread at him anyway 😂

 

 

 

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OK.

 

My son adores this. 

 

However, my problem is

Spoiler

They did it all so much better with into the spider-verse. Which is one of my all time top 5 films ever. 

 

Yet it looked stunning, made me laugh more than 6 times all the feels bits landed and I've always said Garfield was the best spidey. 

 

But Miles leaping off the building still gives me goose bumps just thinking about it. This wasn't as good as spider-verse for me. 

 

Sorry. 

 

It needed more Post Malone 

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I really enjoyed this. It's not oh my god the best film ever made but it's absolutely top tier Marvel

 

Spoiler

It has a lot of moving parts and it's impressive how well it manages them.

 

- The whole thing starts from Peter being incredibly stupid, but it's believable given the situation he's in and the fact he's immature. Dr Strange has been just arrogant enough to sell it

- That plot then comes full circle by the end and Peter is accepting of what he has to sacrifice

- Peter makes further bad choices but it's teed up before with May's talk. It's not the most sophisticated piece of characteristion ever, but you are entirely sold that Peter is going to listen to what Aunt May says and it's amazing how many films don't do the work

- It makes having all of those baddies work and be not only faithful to the originals of them but in some cases be better versions of them - I found Electro much better here than in Amazing Spiderman 2 for example. Dafoe and Molina were pretty brilliant, too.

- It has much more spider team up action than I expected, and used them for genuinely warm pieces of humour. It's not Into the Spiderverse - what is? - but it was very good. It even gave Garfield completion of his arc that he didn't manage

- I hadn't read May as a spoiler, but it was exceedingly obvious from the moment he brought the Green Goblin back. The resulting scene was still very well done.

- Actually impacted status quo at the end Aunt May is dead, and no one knows who Peter is

- Not the best action Marvel has ever done, but it was readable and easy to follow.

 

 

It had a lot of heart. Given how much of a mess this could have asily have been, it's a very impressive film. If you've walked in with sky high expectations, I think it's worth giving it another shot later.

 

One thing that surprised me

 

Spoiler

They seemed to close off having an in MCU universe version of Norman Osborne - Dafoe saying no Oscorp for example. Given his importance in the comics this kind of surprised me, unless Dr Strange and Disney+ stuff is going to do some serious multiverse mashing

 

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Got back from the cinema an hour ago. Brilliant fun, not quite sure where it sits on my MCU rankings table just yet though.

 

Spoiler

Does this all tie up the MCU Spiderman arc? Will they remove him entirely?

 

Now nobody knows who Peter Parker is can he start the photography/journalism for JJJ at the Bugle to earn money for his rent?

 

Clearly the Venom arc is where they've signposted where this is going so that would be excellent.

 

What were the terms of the deal with Sony? How much freedom do Disney have with the Appellant Spiderman property?

 

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Decided to go and see this in a daytime IMAX screening on New Year’s Day for a nice empty cinema. It would have been nice to get more of an audience buzz but seems a sensible choice. 
 

Anyway, I loved it. I didn’t get quite the same buzz that some of the more action driven films provided but it was a really nice layered story with proper consequences. 

 

Spoiler

The interactions between spideys was great, and it was good to see daredevil pop up as well  

 

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Went to see this last night. Overall, I really enjoyed it, especially as someone who feels a bit fatigued with the Marvel steamroller. Spider-Man has always been my favourite superhero, and I thought this film did a better job of bringing a complete version of that character to life than the previous Holland outings.

 

General spoilers for thrust of film:

Spoiler

My issues with the MCU Spider-Man to date have always been that Peter wouldn't be such a slavish and outright fanboy of the MCU Iron Man. That hero is a terrible role model for Spider-Man. Unconcerned with consequences, with the little guys, very self-aggrandising. That's just not Spider-Man. With Iron Man gone, I worried that was going to transfer to Dr Strange (who's cut from a very similar mould) and I'm happy that it hasn't.

 

The movie's whole plot device in shifting him from simply (and easily) solving the big problem to focussing on the small aspects, at significant cost to himself, felt very Spider-Man.

 

More specific spoilers about people and roles in the movie:

Spoiler

I'd been exposed to sufficient spoilers that I expected Molina, Dafoe, Garfield and Maguire to arrive. I was still surprised at the moment Garfield turns up.

 

I thought Molina, Dafoe and (to a lesser extent) Foxx did great jobs bringing their villains to this. Dafoe in particular was brilliant, and the big moment when he turns worked great.

 

I really enjoyed seeing our three Spider-Mans hanging out, and the stories it gave for how things were working out for them. Garfield's story about having turned dark and bitter and no longer holding back seemed realistic. (I sort of wonder if any of that speech was intended as meta-commentary on how he feels about his time as Spider-Man? It felt a little on the nose.) As someone who didn't really like Maguire as a Spider-Man, I actually thought he did a great job here.

 

I'm sad May is dead, but I am happy that she ends her time here becoming the role model this Spider-Man needed. That was the aspect Holland's MCU Parker was really missing - that almost debilitatingly unwavering moral compass, rather than the excited and giddy kid that wants to be a hero.

 

Overall, I thought it was a great effort. Funny when it wanted to be, emotional without ever feeling forced or unearned. A good story that was about the story in that film, and not simply a trailer for the next one. And something that really worked to progress Spider-Man's character.

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