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Spider-Man No Way Home - Xmas 2021


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Spoiler

They kinda left Spider-Man’s ‘origin story’ to the last movie of this trilogy. It wasn’t just being bitten by the spider but learning the moral lesson. 
 

It fixes some of the issues people had with the previous MCU films he’s been in. I wonder if the planned the Aunt May moment all along? It’s seems to me they did. 

 

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On 22/12/2021 at 16:36, yakumo said:

I'm only disappointed with the amount of leaks which came out and were true, imagine watching this without knowing. 

It's amazing what you can manage if you don't actually look for them.

 

I saw this yesterday and thought it was great, easily top tier marvel. I knew nothing of the plot besides what I had seen in the trailers so was...

 

Spoiler

...massively surprised when Garfield and Maguire turned up, but then thought I should have guessed, but was happy I had not seen it coming. 

 

All the scenes with the three spideys were great, and despite me not really liking the Amazing films, I thought Garfield was really good here, as was Maguire. Yes, it was similar to Spiderverse, but I think having these three really worked. Loved the talk about the Avengers. "You're in a band!?"

 

Overall, excellent. This, Hawkeye and Shang-Chi have really brought me back in to wanting more Marvel stuff after the disappointing Black Widow and Eternals.

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1 hour ago, squirtle said:

It's amazing what you can manage if you don't actually look for them.

 

I saw this yesterday and thought it was great, easily top tier marvel. I knew nothing of the plot besides what I had seen in the trailers so was...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

...massively surprised when Garfield and Maguire turned up, but then thought I should have guessed, but was happy I had not seen it coming. 

 

All the scenes with the three spideys were great, and despite me not really liking the Amazing films, I thought Garfield was really good here, as was Maguire. Yes, it was similar to Spiderverse, but I think having these three really worked. Loved the talk about the Avengers. "You're in a band!?"

 

Overall, excellent. This, Hawkeye and Shang-Chi have really brought me back in to wanting more Marvel stuff after the disappointing Black Widow and Eternals.

 

It was more to do with the leaks of characters, it was one of the worst kept secrets in the MCU. 

 

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2 hours ago, yakumo said:

 

It was more to do with the leaks of characters, it was one of the worst kept secrets in the MCU. 

 

All I was saying was I didn't look for them so never saw them. I don't know what else to say.

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53 minutes ago, squirtle said:

All I was saying was I didn't look for them so never saw them. I don't know what else to say.

I get you, I wasn't actively looking for leaks but stuff does get spoiled in thumbnails and in articles from google recommendations and twitter.  I think one was from Artstation of all places early on.

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Just watched it and thought it was great despite feeling it was dragging a little at one point.
 

Spoiler

But then the other spideys showed up and it was v entertaining! 

I’d managed to avoid spoilers so that was a cool surprise. 
 

Also,

Spoiler

Willem Dafoe

was absolutely brilliant. Manages to be the most menacing MCU villain (other than Thanos) with just this movie. Although perhaps prior knowledge influences that view. 

 

This felt like Marvel at its best. Super assured and making the trilogy feel really well thought out in terms of character development. I wonder if this was all planned…

Spoiler

having the Aunt May/Uncle Ben moment at this point in the trilogy was inspired.

 

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This was a good Spider-Man movie, and had more than a few surprises in it.

Spoiler

The mid-movie fight through the apartment block was faaaaaar more entertaining than the final "let's have some CGI on screen spinning around the Statue of Liberty for 20 minutes before we wrap up the movie" fight. And I was, uh, emotionally compromised by the Aunt May bit, which I didn't expect to happen.

 

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On 15/12/2021 at 18:42, Nick R said:

I had two options about when to see this film:

 

1) Go to a screening of Spider-Man this week... and risk catching COVID and then be unable to see The Matrix Resurrections this side of Christmas.

 

Or: 2) Wait to see Spider-Man after I've seen Matrix 4... and risk getting Spidey spoiled for me in the next week or so.

 

The first option is obviously unacceptable, so sadly, I've decided to take the red pill and watch Spidey second. Looks like I'll have to do my best to avoid spoilers this week...

 

Finally saw it today! In a near-empty afternoon screening: just one other person was in there, and they walked out about an hour in. :blink: Maybe they'd been to see it before but missed the start, so paid £10 to see it again? Or they sneaked in? Or they just hated it?

 

Well I didn't hate it! I liked it a lot! 

 

I've been surprised to see comments in various places from people saying that they didn't like the first 45 minutes - I found that as enjoyable as the rest.

 

 

On the reasons I've seen for critics disliking it:

 

Spoiler

On places like Letterboxd, some of the people who dislike No Way Home do so for the same reasons as Space Jam 2, Ready Player One, Ghostbusters Afterlife, etc: because it's the perfect example of our pop cultural fixation on nostalgia for what the previous generation liked. (And you know who else looks back to a glorious imagined past? Fascists!) I've really begun to resent South Park for giving the Internet the word "Memberberries" to use as a lazy shorthand for this criticism. :rolleyes:

 

It's one of the reasons for the positive response to The Matrix Resurrections by some of the same critics, because it challenges this trend (while also, arguably, having its cake and eating it by indulging in it too).

 

But does nostalgia have to be a dirty word? I tend to be of the opinion that it's as valid a way of getting enjoyment from a piece of entertainment as any other. And I think Spider-Man No Way Home keeps enough focus on the MCU's Peter Parker as a character, and his supporting cast, that it can't be accused of fan service for fan service's sake.

 

(Well, except for Osborn saying the meme line "I'm something of a scientist myself." That was indulgent.)

 

 

On the bits I had spoiled:

 

Spoiler

Even though I don't think I'd come across anything explicitly confirming that Garfield and Maguire were in it, I'd gathered enough to be pretty certain that the speculation was accurate.

 

I'd seen people speculating that Daredevil would appear, and saw his name trending on Twitter a couple of weeks ago - but I thought it might be because of Hawkeye instead of this.

 

Funnily enough the one cameo that I thought I'd had spoiled didn't actually happen: I'd seen an otherwise spoiler-free comment mentioning Kirsten Dunst, so I was expecting that the film would end with a post-credit scene of her MJ reuniting with Maguire's Spidey. I think I would've preferred that to the Venom scene!

 

My biggest issue with one specific character's role in the plot:

 

Spoiler

Several of the villains disappeared for very long stretches, but the one whose actions I struggled to track was Sandman.

 

After the fight in Happy's apartment block, I didn't get why he disappeared and then fought against the Spideys? I know he believes that if he goes back to his universe, he'll die, so that explains why he's after the spell box. But on the other hand he wants to return to his universe to see his daughter again, and he wants to be cured. (He's not addicted to his superpowers like Electro and Lizard.) So the film didn't really convince me that he'd team up with the other villains to fight the Spider-Men to the death.

 

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On 15/12/2021 at 23:50, Steely said:
Spoiler

Also, is that the first time we have had a proper teaser trailer for another movie as an end scene...with a whatif strange aswell. :sherlock:

 

 

Spoiler

Not quite the first time: Captain America 1's post-credits scene was the first teaser trailer for The Avengers.

 

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18 minutes ago, Nick R said:

 

Finally saw it today! In a near-empty afternoon screening: just one other person was in there, and they walked out about an hour in. :blink: Maybe they'd been to see it before but missed the start, so paid £10 to see it again? Or they sneaked in? Or they just hated it?

 

Well I didn't hate it! I liked it a lot! 

 

I've been surprised to see comments in various places from people saying that they didn't like the first 45 minutes - I found that as enjoyable as the rest.

 

 

On the reasons I've seen for critics disliking it:

 

  Hide contents

On places like Letterboxd, some of the people who dislike No Way Home do so for the same reasons as Space Jam 2, Ready Player One, Ghostbusters Afterlife, etc: because it's the perfect example of our pop cultural fixation on nostalgia for what the previous generation liked. (And you know who else looks back to a glorious imagined past? Fascists!) I've really begun to resent South Park for giving the Internet the word "Memberberries" to use as a lazy shorthand for this criticism. :rolleyes:

 

It's one of the reasons for the positive response to The Matrix Resurrections by some of the same critics, because it challenges this trend (while also, arguably, having its cake and eating it by indulging in it too).

 

But does nostalgia have to be a dirty word? I tend to be of the opinion that it's as valid a way of getting enjoyment from a piece of entertainment as any other. And I think Spider-Man No Way Home keeps enough focus on the MCU's Peter Parker as a character, and his supporting cast, that it can't be accused of fan service for fan service's sake.

 

(Well, except for Osborn saying the meme line "I'm something of a scientist myself." That was indulgent.)

 

 

On the bits I had spoiled:

 

  Hide contents

Even though I don't think I'd come across anything explicitly confirming that Garfield and Maguire were in it, I'd gathered enough to be pretty certain that the speculation was accurate.

 

I'd seen people speculating that Daredevil would appear, and saw his name trending on Twitter a couple of weeks ago - but I thought it might be because of Hawkeye instead of this.

 

Funnily enough the one cameo that I thought I'd had spoiled didn't actually happen: I'd seen an otherwise spoiler-free comment mentioning Kirsten Dunst, so I was expecting that the film would end with a post-credit scene of her MJ reuniting with Maguire's Spidey. I think I would've preferred that to the Venom scene!

 

My biggest issue with one specific character's role in the plot:

 

  Hide contents

Several of the villains disappeared for very long stretches, but the one whose actions I struggled to track was Sandman.

 

After the fight in Happy's apartment block, I didn't get why he disappeared and then fought against the Spideys? I know he believes that if he goes back to his universe, he'll die, so that explains why he's after the spell box. But on the other hand he wants to return to his universe to see his daughter again, and he wants to be cured. (He's not addicted to his superpowers like Electro and Lizard.) So the film didn't really convince me that he'd team up with the other villains to fight the Spider-Men to the death.

 


regarding your spoiler;

 

Spoiler

I don’t think they sold Sandman’s motivation to join them that well either, but my suspicion is that he believes that it’s along the lines of if Peter can’t cure them all, he’ll send them back to die, so once it seems like the others decide not to let him, his option is stop Peter and live in this universe or go back and die.  That said, he didn’t die fighting Spider-Man.  Neither did Connors/Lizard.  I think it’s assumed they think they do though as Lizard asks Electro but doesn’t get an answer, so I guess they all assume so.


I enjoyed it a lot, though I don’t think it’s quite as good as a lot of people who’ve been calling it things like the best super hero movie ever.  Part of me thinks that a similar thing happened with the last Suicide Squad film, which I saw loads of praise for, and was good, but it felt almost more like people were just really happy that it was obviously done by someone who respected what the fans were looking for from it and hadn’t messed it up.  It handles a lot of the ambitious stuff really well, and it explains some of the stuff that from the trailer I thought didn’t add up well,  but some of it I’m not sure how well it works if you put thought into it 

 

Spoiler

So one thing I was wondering was how the spell goes from making people forget to opening the multiverse and people coming to them, but the thing about it being people who knows he’s Spider-Man works.

 

but when does it pull them from?  Doesn’t really explain that.  3 of them it sounds like just before death (or 2, doesn’t explain Goblins), but Sandman and Lizard don’t say theirs, and the Peters are obviously from a time we’ll after the villains.  Not huge this point, but I did wonder.

 

The next bit is that if they change them, and send them back, from the stuff in endgame, the thread they were from splinters off to a new multiverse doesn’t it?  The one where they die has happened, the peters are from there, and will still happen - am I getting that wrong, and wouldn’t Strange know that?

 

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8 minutes ago, George Clooney said:


regarding your spoiler;

 

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I don’t think they sold Sandman’s motivation to join them that well either, but my suspicion is that he believes that it’s along the lines of if Peter can’t cure them all, he’ll send them back to die, so once it seems like the others decide not to let him, his option is stop Peter and live in this universe or go back and die.  That said, he didn’t die fighting Spider-Man.  Neither did Connors/Lizard.  I think it’s assumed they think they do though as Lizard asks Electro but doesn’t get an answer, so I guess they all assume so.


I enjoyed it a lot, though I don’t think it’s quite as good as a lot of people who’ve been calling it things like the best super hero movie ever.  Part of me thinks that a similar thing happened with the last Suicide Squad film, which I saw loads of praise for, and was good, but it felt almost more like people were just really happy that it was obviously done by someone who respected what the fans were looking for from it and hadn’t messed it up.  It handles a lot of the ambitious stuff really well, and it explains some of the stuff that from the trailer I thought didn’t add up well,  but some of it I’m not sure how well it works if you put thought into it 

 

  Hide contents

So one thing I was wondering was how the spell goes from making people forget to opening the multiverse and people coming to them, but the thing about it being people who knows he’s Spider-Man works.

 

but when does it pull them from?  Doesn’t really explain that.  3 of them it sounds like just before death (or 2, doesn’t explain Goblins), but Sandman and Lizard don’t say theirs, and the Peters are obviously from a time we’ll after the villains.  Not huge this point, but I did wonder.

 

The next bit is that if they change them, and send them back, from the stuff in endgame, the thread they were from splinters off to a new multiverse doesn’t it?  The one where they die has happened, the peters are from there, and will still happen - am I getting that wrong, and wouldn’t Strange know that?

 

I'm not sure any of it makes much sense, does it?

 

Spoiler

It tries to explain that the Goblin and Electro disappeared near their point of death - but when the new Spidey's turn-up neither or them seem surprised that they were still alive and, in Goblin's case, Garfield or Maguire (can't recall which) remarked that they had been working on a cure - for somebody that hadn't existed in their universe for a long, long time? What?

 

But you're also right that Endgame established that unless they were returned to the exact same point from which they were taken, then time would split off - so surely sending them back (cured or not) means they still die as they did originally - otherwise they aren't going back to their own universe?

 

Strange should know it too - he does talk about it being fate - but then thinks it's all fine and dandy at the end. It's feel it all got a bit too smart for its own good and they couldn't find a way to undo it in a way consistent with their own rules - unless I'm missing something?

 

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12 hours ago, Gabe said:

I'm not sure any of it makes much sense, does it?

 

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It tries to explain that the Goblin and Electro disappeared near their point of death - but when the new Spidey's turn-up neither or them seem surprised that they were still alive and, in Goblin's case, Garfield or Maguire (can't recall which) remarked that they had been working on a cure - for somebody that hadn't existed in their universe for a long, long time? What?

 

But you're also right that Endgame established that unless they were returned to the exact same point from which they were taken, then time would split off - so surely sending them back (cured or not) means they still die as they did originally - otherwise they aren't going back to their own universe?

 

Strange should know it too - he does talk about it being fate - but then thinks it's all fine and dandy at the end. It's feel it all got a bit too smart for its own good and they couldn't find a way to undo it in a way consistent with their own rules - unless I'm missing something?

 


 

No, there’s quite a lot I think you just have to accept for it to really work, and it may even be better that they don’t try and explain some of it better than they do else it’d bog itself down and likely fall over.  Like for example;

 

Spoiler

Everyone forgetting Peter is Spidey is one thing, but how does forgetting Peter completely work?  Has it literally removed all trace of him?  MJ and Ned obviously didn’t remember him at all, but they’d have stuff like text messages and pictures with him, has it erased all that?  Or are they just looking at them like “this is weird, who’s this guy”.  It would have to remove so much, surely that would mess things up.  Though maybe that’s a hint for a sequel, Peter is like “they’re good without me, I’m gonna leave em” but MJ finds gaps and starts digging.  Still, surely if it erases him completely that messes up things a tonne as it messes up stuff like being registered in schools, grades, birth records, and so on.


last bit, about the mid credit scene

Spoiler

So much for Tom Hardy in this series…..though this implies Venom knows a Peter Parker who is Spider-Man some how.  I saw a theory that Sony will reboot Spider-Man outside the MCU proper without Marvel Studios involvement and this sets up a “new” Spider-Man to be introduced in a Venom movie. Holland has said that he doesn’t want to be 30 and still playing Spider-Man, so some are assuming that he’s not got many films left in him - that said he’s been in 6 movies as him already since 2016, though 3 as part of a larger cast.

 

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2 minutes ago, George Clooney said:


 

No, there’s quite a lot I think you just have to accept for it to really work, and it may even be better that they don’t try and explain some of it better than they do else it’d bog itself down and likely fall over.  Like for example;

 

  Hide contents

Everyone forgetting Peter is Spidey is one thing, but how does forgetting Peter completely work?  Has it literally removed all trace of him?  MJ and Ned obviously didn’t remember him at all, but they’d have stuff like text messages and pictures with him, has it erased all that?  Or are they just looking at them like “this is weird, who’s this guy”.  It would have to remove so much, surely that would mess things up.  Though maybe that’s a hint for a sequel, Peter is like “they’re good without me, I’m gonna leave em” but MJ finds gaps and starts digging.  Still, surely if it erases him completely that messes up things a tonne as it messes up stuff like being registered in schools, grades, birth records, and so on.


last bit, about the mid credit scene

  Hide contents

So much for Tom Hardy in this series…..though this implies Venom knows a Peter Parker who is Spider-Man some how.  I saw a theory that Sony will reboot Spider-Man outside the MCU proper without Marvel Studios involvement and this sets up a “new” Spider-Man to be introduced in a Venom movie. Holland has said that he doesn’t want to be 30 and still playing Spider-Man, so some are assuming that he’s not got many films left in him - that said he’s been in 6 movies as him already since 2016, though 3 as part of a larger cast.

 

Re: your first spoiler, I said exactly the same to my other half as the film finished - how would it practically work? As you say, trying to explain it gets you all tangled (like how the Blip was resolved - though didn't they try and say why people weren't falling out of the sky on planes that were no longer there? I'm not sure it consistently tied together.)

 

I suppose it gives them plenty of options of where to go next. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, George Clooney said:


 

No, there’s quite a lot I think you just have to accept for it to really work, and it may even be better that they don’t try and explain some of it better than they do else it’d bog itself down and likely fall over.  Like for example;

 

  Hide contents

Everyone forgetting Peter is Spidey is one thing, but how does forgetting Peter completely work?  Has it literally removed all trace of him?  MJ and Ned obviously didn’t remember him at all, but they’d have stuff like text messages and pictures with him, has it erased all that?  Or are they just looking at them like “this is weird, who’s this guy”.  It would have to remove so much, surely that would mess things up.  Though maybe that’s a hint for a sequel, Peter is like “they’re good without me, I’m gonna leave em” but MJ finds gaps and starts digging.  Still, surely if it erases him completely that messes up things a tonne as it messes up stuff like being registered in schools, grades, birth records, and so on.


 


I had similar thoughts, but I reckoned 

 

Spoiler

They could explain that away by something like the physical records of Peter Parker still exist, but the forgetting spell means that if you were to physically come across them, your mind would simply skip over it as if it didn’t exist. Like a mental blind spot for anything related to him.

 

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1 hour ago, Pistol said:


I had similar thoughts, but I reckoned 

 

  Hide contents

They could explain that away by something like the physical records of Peter Parker still exist, but the forgetting spell means that if you were to physically come across them, your mind would simply skip over it as if it didn’t exist. Like a mental blind spot for anything related to him.

 

 

Spoiler

Perfect excuse for him to adopt a false name. "Ben Reilly" for example!

 

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I really wish that Sony somehow could put this up for at least a rent option in the usual places like iTunes Movies etc. So that all of us where cinemas are closed down could see it now in the premiere time-window. I know it's been doing big numbers but surely it could make even more as many countries have closed down cinemas (in Denmark where I live). Just a rent option so you don't get to own it yet. 

 

But it would probably go to the high seas shortly after which Sony don't want (just yet). 

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33 minutes ago, krenzler said:

I really wish that Sony somehow could put this up for at least a rent option in the usual places like iTunes Movies etc. So that all of us where cinemas are closed down could see it now in the premiere time-window. I know it's been doing big numbers but surely it could make even more as many countries have closed down cinemas (in Denmark where I live). Just a rent option so you don't get to own it yet. 

 

But it would probably go to the high seas shortly after which Sony don't want (just yet). 

 

It's Sony, man. They don't want you to see their films.

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9 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

It's Sony, man. They don't want you to see their films.

Although looking at the box office numbers, it's hard to really blame thier strategy with this one. 

 

Plus I assume keeping it off the rental services prevents a good quality pirate version emerging? 

 

With Matrix you could get a Blu Ray quality version about a minute after it was released on HBO Max. 

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I really enjoyed this. So far Phase 4 has left me feeling pretty meh, not like its doing anything particularly wrong but it all just feels a bit going through the motions after the antural end point of Infinity/Endgame. This is the first film that I feel was an outright successful good time. I think it helped that outside of Strange it concentrated on telling a Spider-man story, where he actually felt like Spider-man and not the adventures of Iron Boy. It's shame May was so utterly wasted in Far From Home in retrospect. I can actually see myself wanting to watch this again as opposed to Black Widow and Shang-Chi which I wcould feel sliding out of my brain before the credits even ended (not seen Eternals yet).

 

Just before I typed this I read the story that's come out that originally Ned and the ring stuff was actually meant to go to another character who will be introduced in Dr Strange 2 (as a result of that film being delayed). People are bemoaning this online, but frankly I'm glad, the film was already a bit overstuffed and I prefer they concentrate on giving the the core supporting cast stuff to do, instead of the problem of so many MCU projects where you feel like half of what you watched were adverts for future films.

 

https://comicbook.com/movies/news/spider-man-no-way-home-concept-art-america-chavez-doctor-strange-2-multiverse-of-madness-cameo/#5

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