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Are many 8/16 but games still playable or only the AA+ games?


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38 minutes ago, Klatrymadon said:

Yeah, be curious, and try everything that looks remotely interesting to you, for whatever reason! We must decisively crush the idea that only the consensus cream of the crop are worth anyone's time. I find it particularly tragic that one of the most popular websites dedicated to covering more "niche" arcade and console games is is HG101, which is almost uniformly written in a tone of incuriousness and authoritative dismissiveness ("here's this weird old game you've probably never heard of *scoff*, and here's why it isn't worth playing"), that sees everything fundamentally as a disappointment or a mistake regardless of its own ambitions or achievements. Its writers think they're engaging in critique but they're constantly precluding critique - the articles inspire nothing but a self-satisfied ignorance towards rich histories and incredibly impressive games. There's never a sense that they have any aesthetic appreciation for anything video games can uniquely do, and you could never leave their website inspired to check anything out for yourself. They've done more violence to the discourse around older games than even the AVGN. They're all boring bastards and nobody should take their attitude to something they care about. Try everything!

 

(I have a particular animus here, of course - HG101's writing on the Darius series would have you believe it's an irrelevant curiosity, interesting but ultimately not worth bothering your arse about, and my resentment about that being one of the most visible 'takes' on the series will follow me to the grave.)

 

Harsh IMO.

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49 minutes ago, Down by Law said:

90 from Mean Machines Sega. I never played the SNES version, but I heard it wasn't as good.


 

It's dreadful on SNES and has music so bad you'll actually piss yourself laughing 

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Just to add to my previous point, they haven't made SNES games in so long that surely all the hidden gems have been found already? I'd much rather read a list then hunt for them myself.

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3 hours ago, dumpster said:

Just to add to my previous point, they haven't made SNES games in so long that surely all the hidden gems have been found already? I'd much rather read a list then hunt for them myself.

 

One man's hidden gem is another man's stay hidden lump of coal though.

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I finished Fire ‘n Ice for the NES (on the Switch) last night and it’s excellent. Definitely not “AAA”, and I’d never even heard of it before I saw it there.

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From playing old games recently I've realised that 90% of them don't hold up. 5% are only good in my eyes due to nostalgia. And 5% are stone cold classics.

 

It's sad knowing that these games are going to be forgotten, and already are in the same way a lot of classic pinball is fading away as older people die and the works become less relevant. I've shown some really old games to my partner who is ten years younger than me and some games she can't see the appeal of, and some she just can't parse at all.

 

I mean if you weren't there in the late 70's what does this even look like?

 

Superman-atari-2600.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=

 

 

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They won't be forgotten because you can play them.

 

Half the games released today will be forgotten because the likes of Cyberpunk will be unplayable if played unpatched and several require constant server connection.

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We play NES, SNES & Mega Drive games pretty daily and they all hold up! We spent all of yesterday playing Top Gear 3000 and NBA Hangtime  on the SNES lol

 

Though if you sit and play games by yourself I doubt its the same!

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7 hours ago, buizel said:

Though if you sit and play games by yourself I doubt its the same!

 

I've been thinking about this lately, how I'd love to share my favourite games with another human after this period of next to no human contact, but it's not looking too bright if I'm honest. 

 

The very small amount of friends / family I have who still enjoy videogames are either Switch shovelware enthusiasts or enchanted by modern VR (or both). I have some local nephews who first learned to use a control pad with the original Bubble Bobble (I was particularly proud of my role with this) but they too are now Switch shovelware enthusiasts.

 

I'm literally the lone weirdo who insists on maintaining old consoles and playing them hooked up to a CRT via a mechanical switch, who can talk for days about why this semi-newly translated Mega Drive RTS might literally be a brand new favourite game of all time (other games to have occupied this slot once upon a time are Ghouls n Ghosts and Gunstar Heroes).

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I find this thread quite frustrating. :lol:

I play 8 and 16 bit games all the time. There are countless numbers of worthy titles out there - I'm still discovering new favourites. The idea that it's only first party titles or AAA releases that are worth your time is ridiculous. 

As an example, I've been playing through lots of mascot platformers and action platformers recently and having great fun. If I'd stuck to Mario and Sonic I'd have missed so much. A few of my favourites have been James Pond 2 and 3, Dynamite Headdy, Quackshot and pretty much every Tiny Toons game they released. As for action platformers, what about Metal Storm, Power Blade, Quantum Fighter or Ninja Gaiden? 

 

I suspect the way games are approached by the player makes a difference. If you're trying these games out via emulation, coming at them cold having not read a manual or been introduced to the game by a friend it can take a bit of effort to work out what's what and how to play. Sometimes you have to prime yourself for the experience and put in a bit of effort to understand the game. I find it's usually worth the effort. There are very few games which I find devoid of enjoyment. 

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100% agree @JamesC

 

You have to be prepared to devote time to 8/16bit. 

NES TMNT game is a prime example. Give it to someone now, they play it for 10 mins and consider it unplayable nonsense. This game literally made an AVGN episode for being ‘shitty’, yet for many people it remains a great game from their childhood.
 

This is because in those days you got 1 game and that was it, so you persevered. You got used to the ‘nuances’ of the game and accepted them.

 

I’m happy to spend hours learning and finishing a game to go ‘you know what, it’s was probably only really a 5/10 game’ because that time and learning is part of justifying what score you’d give it. Anyone who says they don’t have the time or inclination to persevere, that’s their problem not the game’s.
 

I’m not saying every game is actually a 9/10 with a bit of practice but as mentioned there’s very few that are devoid of enjoyment if you spend some time to get the most out of them.

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2 hours ago, JamesC said:

to Mario and Sonic I'd have missed so much. A few of my favourites have been James Pond 2 and 3, Dynamite Headdy, Quackshot and pretty much every Tiny Toons game they released. As for action platformers, what about Metal Storm, Power Blade, Quantum Fighter or Ninja Gaiden? 

I'd say this paragraph spoils your argument somewhat.  The point I made (badly) earlier was that the hidden gems are probably already discovered and the games you'll play from a Romset are the ones you'll know about at the time. If you honestly tried James Pond,.Dynamite Heddy, Quackshot  Tiny Toons, Ninja Gaiden having never heard of them before then fair enough.  But all the games you mentioned there are well known.  

 

The likelihood of playing a rom you've never heard of before and finding it to be a great game is very slim.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, dumpster said:

The likelihood of playing a rom you've never heard of before and finding it to be a great game is very slim


Fire ‘n Ice was exactly this.

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57 minutes ago, deKay said:


Fire ‘n Ice was exactly this.

Yeah, in still not disagreeing with you , I'm just making a different point, Badly.  When you say Fire and Ice, I see this, a successful Amiga game that got great reviews and was in Superplay when they converted it to SNES and got reviews in the 70s and 80s.  

 

Fire_and_Ice_cover_art_(Atari_ST).jpg.2774415cdd6fb397020d9c82afeff6ff.jpg

 

To me that's a game that got publicity. Or it could be Fire and Ice on the NES which is also Solomon's Key 2

 

426223185_Solomons_Key_2_cover.jpg.5bd6af6d933e20daea9c6086891d183f.jpg

 

I had Solomon's Key on Spectrum, it was widely converted to many formats.  

 

My point is that there are loads of games on SNES you've probably never heard of.  Anything of any note has surely been covered in magazines at the time or been picked up on in the years since.  The idea of getting a Romset, starting at A, and playing each game to a point where you can objectively say it's good or bad is a lifetimes work.  Starting off with these...

 

Screenshot_20210328-123925.jpg.f0304a58a06062d3c4ec8bcdc949274e.jpg

 

Which I would be happy to guess are all not worth your time u til you get to J League Soccer by Namco which is a game you've heard of anyway.

 

But as I said earlier my whole point is based on a complete misreading of the OP anyway.  I'm suggesting the OP should search out hidden gems by recommendation from other people, which is exactly what he's doing, so I'm still saying my Hail Marys, whilst flaggelating my Male Hairys. 

 

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I'm still discovering 16-bit games at the moment. I've been diving heavily into the Super Famicom library and have found a few corkers I've really enjoyed. GeGeGe No Kitaro, Sonic Blastman, the Great Battle games CB Chara, Combatribes. All really worth your time and very 16-bit. Some absolutely awful games as well, the Hokuto no Ken fighting games (HnK 6 and 7) are utter dross, but trying them all out is still fun.

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The Great Battle IV is excellent. I need to sit and dedicate some proper time to that at some point.

 

@dumpsteryou've gone from essentially, 'the only good games are the big hitters you remember from your childhood' to, 'you can find out all the good games on a system with a little bit of research'. Even those new goalposts are problematic because a) subjectivity b) there are more systems than the MD and SNES (e.g., PCE would require a bit more digging for a newcomer) c) patches making previously inaccessible games available d) some libraries are huge (e.g. C64) and are never going to be covered by a small list.

 

There are lots of games worth exploring that won't appear on lists. I had a surprising amount of fun playing ESWAT when it came up in retro club here and that's a game I've known since it came out and just hadn't really given a chance.

 

But it absolutely depends on what you're looking for and your expectations. I still play Atari 2600 games. Something like River Raid is pure, distilled video game for me. Is it worth you playing River Raid? Totally depends what you're looking for in a video game. If you're put off by something looking primitive then you're not going to enjoy it. 

 

A list will tell you what the person writing the list thinks is worth playing. Nothing more.

 

Would you dismiss all music made before 1990 if it wasn't in a 'these are the best 50 albums made before 1990' list?

 

tl;dr - I don't even.

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2 hours ago, dumpster said:

I'd say this paragraph spoils your argument somewhat.  The point I made (badly) earlier was that the hidden gems are probably already discovered and the games you'll play from a Romset are the ones you'll know about at the time. If you honestly tried James Pond,.Dynamite Heddy, Quackshot  Tiny Toons, Ninja Gaiden having never heard of them before then fair enough.  But all the games you mentioned there are well known.  

 

The likelihood of playing a rom you've never heard of before and finding it to be a great game is very slim.

 

 

To be honest, I stuck to platformers because that was an example the OP used. I'd heard of most of these games before playing them but they're still less obvious examples I think. 

I'd never heard of Metal Storm before it was recently rereleased. 

 

Some examples of other games I'd never heard of before playing fairly recently (within the last couple of years) are Granada, Final Zone and Arcus Odyssey. All of which I love but none got a PAL release. 

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Maybe I just read all the magazine's too much at the time.  To me, E-swat is a well known game  (we bundled it with the console at one point) . Combatribes was well received too back in that's day.  So far in this thread of "what games are great but you've never heard of" theres only one game I've not heard of.  GeGeGe No Kitaro which I will now check out.  

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I meant Fire ‘n Ice, not Fire and Ice. It seems to be what was rebranded as Solomon’s Key 2 in some regions and is superficially similar to the original, but it’s not the real sequel to it.

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I don't think it's supposed to be games no one's heard of though, just games that aren't 'AA+' releases or first part titles but which are still worth playing. 

 

What 'AA+' actually means is still up for debate though I suppose. 

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In doing our podcast and having a decent knowledge of c64 stuff, there have been a number of games I never played or had even heard of that I've enjoyed my time with. In no particular order:

 

Confuzion

Big Mac The Maintenance Man 

Kennedy Approach 

Hacker

The Fourth Protocol 

Quasimodo

 

That's just off the top of my head. So yeah, it's totally possible to find games to enjoy that are over 35 years old and still have something to them today. 

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5 hours ago, Goemon said:

100% agree @JamesC

 

You have to be prepared to devote time to 8/16bit. 

NES TMNT game is a prime example. Give it to someone now, they play it for 10 mins and consider it unplayable nonsense. This game literally made an AVGN episode for being ‘shitty’, yet for many people it remains a great game from their childhood.
 

This is because in those days you got 1 game and that was it, so you persevered. You got used to the ‘nuances’ of the game and accepted them.

 

I’m happy to spend hours learning and finishing a game to go ‘you know what, it’s was probably only really a 5/10 game’ because that time and learning is part of justifying what score you’d give it. Anyone who says they don’t have the time or inclination to persevere, that’s their problem not the game’s.
 

I’m not saying every game is actually a 9/10 with a bit of practice but as mentioned there’s very few that are devoid of enjoyment if you spend some time to get the most out of them.

 

Yeah this is a thing, but it works in reverse.

 

I've found a lot of games that are fun for maybe an hour because they're either very thin or you reach the annoying bit or boss.

 

Back when they were your only game you'd be pissed off.

 

Now? You move on having enjoyed your hour and all is fine.

 

5 hours ago, dumpster said:

I'd say this paragraph spoils your argument somewhat.  The point I made (badly) earlier was that the hidden gems are probably already discovered and the games you'll play from a Romset are the ones you'll know about at the time. If you honestly tried James Pond,.Dynamite Heddy, Quackshot  Tiny Toons, Ninja Gaiden having never heard of them before then fair enough.  But all the games you mentioned there are well known.  

 

The likelihood of playing a rom you've never heard of before and finding it to be a great game is very slim.

 

 

 

I would have thought this, but I've discovered several over the run of Yesterzine and some of those reviewed terribly.

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45 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

Surely what the OP was saying is that yes the famous cast iron classics are still playable now but are the rest more hassle than they’re worth?


Yes. Many of them are.

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