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You may NOT pirate Psp, Vita and PS3


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There will absolutely be people who pirate some of these games that get a re-release in a few months on current platforms and they'll then do the whole "Well it was only £9.99 on the PS3 store 10 years ago so it's a bit shit they're charging 15 for it now. Pass".

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11 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

 

This is a nonsense argument, because I don't think anyone's claiming they're paragons of virtue. You don't have to be innocent to believe an action is wrong, and it's not some logical gotcha to point it out - the piracy equivalent of "and yet you participate in society!".

That's why I said previously that everyone has a point where they're OK with it. I'm not gonna turn around and judge people who illegally download a game they have no other way of playing. I think perhaps people are thinking too short term here and how it impacts playing these games in the next six months, not so much about preserving them for future use. 

 

We'd have to nuke half the Retro forum if we wanted to prevent talk of pirating games. 

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15 minutes ago, Bojangle said:

There will absolutely be people who pirate some of these games that get a re-release in a few months on current platforms and they'll then do the whole "Well it was only £9.99 on the PS3 store 10 years ago so it's a bit shit they're charging 15 for it now. Pass".

 

Aren't these those weird types who download entire romsets just to have them and never actually play anything? I'd like to think that anyone genuinely interested in a game who has the financial means, would pay for it on a new platform just because its easier. I'm certainly guilty of buying Fez or RE4 multiple times, just because it's what I've got hooked up atthe time. I'd sacrifice at least ten children to get a version of Outrun 2 on the new consoles just so I can play it again. 

 

There will be people like you describe but they would never have bought the game anyway. 

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If anyone wants to pirate games then just do so. Do not come up with justifications based on an ethical code that you feel Sony has breached. I used to pirate games from time to time - these days I have so much high quality content available through PS+ and GPU, as well as the substantial discounts available in online store sales, alongside reduced free time, that the idea of spending hours fiddling with downloads, torrents, firmware hacks, and the like just completely turns me off.

 

Anyone planning on pirating games for the PSP/3/Vita on the basis that they will be unavailable - why not just buy them now, whilst you can do so?

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22 minutes ago, Camel said:

 

Pirating is never going to be the right thing to do but 'buying everything you want in the next three months' isn't a plan that will work for everyone.

 

Well, no. But at the same time, the games have been on there for years - I struggle to believe there are a great many people who own PS3s/Vitas/PSPs, who want to buy the games that are being de-listed and aren't available on any other platforms that they own, who haven't gotten around to buying them in the period they've been on the store and aren't in a position to buy them in the next three months. That seems like the absolute definition of an edge case to me.

 

I dunno. I think Fry put it pretty succinctly above - each person has their own justification for pirating games or choosing not to, which applies to them and to them only. The risk to the person doing it seems pretty low - companies don't tend to take action against individuals who pirate games. If someone does fit into that edge case above, then fair enough, but I take issue with the overall idea that Sony shutting down part of their old store is some unprecedented move that throws the IP of the delisted games into some kind of legal grey area, which means as of July 2nd, you can fill your boots. There are valid reasons to pirate something - mainly preservation - but I don't think the store closing in July really changes anything.

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59 minutes ago, SweatyTravolta said:

So you've never downloaded a rom? 

 

I don't think it's so much people downloading the games a month after the store shuts down but say in ten years time someone wants to play the portable version of Outrun 2006, a game that's not even available legally on any platform anyway. There's no way to play that game. In your mind it's gone forever and tough luck to anyone who didn't get to play it. 

 

Yes, I have downloaded a rom. You make a good point about downloading games in ten years time that are no longer available but given that I made that same point in the post you're quoting, I don't really need it to be repeated back to me.

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17 minutes ago, K said:

 

Yes, I have downloaded a rom. You make a good point about downloading games in ten years time that are no longer available but given that I made that same point in the post you're quoting, I don't really need it to be repeated back to me.

 

Sorry that you feel I was repeating it back at you but it was a point I'd made previously in the thread and from your response of "there would be a stronger argument for pirating them", in my reading, didn't come across as fully supportive of preserving games. I also find your final sentence here a little hostile considering we seem to be coming from similar places, this seems like one of those threads where people get their wires crossed and end up arguing the same thing against each other. I would agree with you that it doesn't just become open season for people who could afford to buy them now and I think Sterling is being their usual hyperbolic self which can be quite grating at times.

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27 minutes ago, BossSaru said:

If anyone wants to pirate games then just do so. Do not come up with justifications based on an ethical code that you feel Sony has breached. I used to pirate games from time to time - these days I have so much high quality content available through PS+ and GPU, as well as the substantial discounts available in online store sales, alongside reduced free time, that the idea of spending hours fiddling with downloads, torrents, firmware hacks, and the like just completely turns me off.

 

Anyone planning on pirating games for the PSP/3/Vita on the basis that they will be unavailable - why not just buy them now, whilst you can do so?

 

because there will be people, perhaps not even born yet, who might be doing a series play through of a franchise they like and want to play a game that isn't legally available anywhere. These things should be preserved.

 

It would be really nice if the game companies facilitated this but it's such a complicated thing and there's no easy answer.

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Big companies like Sony treat it as a business. If they're not making any money from it they wash their hands of it.  It's like in America where a new TV show gets bad ratings for the first episode and they cancel it despite them having already made another 9 episodes. 

 

When Sony closed the DriveClub servers it really annoyed me.  I played Gradius 5 this morning on PS2, then a little Outrun 2, and did a song on Parappa 2. All these games worked just as well as they did in 2006 and I didn't expect they wouldn't . Yet Driveclub displays messages about modes being missing and being unable to connect to the servers.  The game is a mess now, and if hackers wanted to clean it up and fix it to be a great single player game they should be allowed to.  Sony have washed their hands of it.  Some CEO walked into your bedroom and said, "you've played that enough now, I'm taking it off you" and you couldn't do anything to stop it.

 

My PSP Go is a console designed for online downloading.  It's the first and only all digital console I ever bought.  So when they shut down the store, if my memory card wipes it's a brick.  But someone at Sony says "you've played that enough now, put it away and buy a new console" and I say, No. Fuck 'em. How dare they? 

 

Because seriously, what's the driver for their decisions? The PS store still exists, is it really that much of an investment to keep a section for Vita, a section for PsP, a section for PS3? No-one's expecting new stuff to be added or anything, but there's just no reason to close it down other than them thinking "if he's playing on a Vita he's not spending time and money on a PS5" which is nonsense because I'm less inclined to buy next gen at all knowing they'll close that's store one day too.

 

With the piracy issue I hold my judgement, present you with JS's video and enjoy reading the replies.  But the issue he's raising is that Sony have now made it impossible to buy Vita games, unless you buy pre-owned cartridges from Cex.  Same with PS3 and PSP.  Now, based on comments earlier I'm very intrigued by Tokyo Jungle.  It's a game I'd never heard of before.  I have a choice to buy it at an inflated price on eBay, or pirate it.  Either way, no-one benefits financially apart from the eBay seller. But there's no need to re-mod my console, rip it off Pirate Bay, burn a DVD and install it , because Sony put it on PS Now, and I can play it today, at a fair price, legitimately.

 

Now, the correct and proper thing to do is for Sony to take everything that's no longer available to buy in the store and stick it on PS Now instead. But if they don't do that then they're basically saying they're washing their hands of those titles.  It's more important to them to have a more refined store than to keep games available then they're showing us all that they are no longer interested. These are no longer commercial products and you can't buy them even if you want to.  So therefore from a legal point of view I'm curious to know where you'd stand if you did follow Jim's advice and pirated stuff.  

 

Looking above in the thread we see DSi ware and Ouya having the same issues and in both these cases the formats are old, can't be bought brand new, so what's the harm in keeping the format alive through Custom Firmware etc.  Fans are doing a better service at preservation than the companies are. Closing the stores is a huge blow to developers and publishers (especially those that already have a work in progress that didn't realise the stores were closing) but that's Sony's decision. If they decide that the whole format is no longer commercially viable, then it's done, it's over, and should return to the public domain , in a similar way to how copyrighted works expire after 50 years (or however long it is I can't be bothered looking it up)

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, SweatyTravolta said:

 

Sorry that you feel I was repeating it back at you but it was a point I'd made previously in the thread and from your response of "there would be a stronger argument for pirating them", in my reading, didn't come across as fully supportive of preserving games. I also find your final sentence here a little hostile considering we seem to be coming from similar places, this seems like one of those threads where people get their wires crossed and end up arguing the same thing against each other. I would agree with you that it doesn't just become open season for people who could afford to buy them now and I think Sterling is being their usual hyperbolic self which can be quite grating at times.

 

Fair enough. I also found your 'so you've never downloaded a rom?' a bit accusatory, but my last sentence was prickishly aggressive, so apologies for that. We are probably mostly on the same page - I think preservation for older games is absolutely vital, and without piracy so many old games would be lost. I just think it's a complex situation that isn't well-served by Jim Sterling's typically simplistic take that everything that will be taken off the Sony store in July will suddenly become public domain. He's like Stuart Campbell for the Youtube age.

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9 minutes ago, dumpster said:

When Sony closed the DriveClub servers it really annoyed me.  I played Gradius 5 this morning on PS2, then a little Outrun 2, and did a song on Parappa 2. All these games worked just as well as they did in 2006 and I didn't expect they wouldn't . Yet Driveclub displays messages about modes being missing and being unable to connect to the servers.  The game is a mess now, and if hackers wanted to clean it up and fix it to be a great single player game they should be allowed to.  Sony have washed their hands of it.  Some CEO walked into your bedroom and said, "you've played that enough now, I'm taking it off you" and you couldn't do anything to stop it.

 

I wonder how much it would cost for Sony to retrofit games like Driveclub to be offline-only.

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Just now, Eighthours said:

 

I wonder how much it would cost for Sony to retrofit games like Driveclub to be offline-only.


A safe bet would be to take your guesstimate and triple it.

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On 08/04/2021 at 09:23, deKay said:

Apart from when the Wii and DSi shops, the original Xbox store, and Desura all shut down. 

 

Yep, it's happened loads. I've worked on 17 released games and, by my count, 8 9 of those are now unable to be bought in any form. Mostly, they're pre-App Store mobile games (Brew, J2ME etc.) but one was only last year: a server-based multiplayer game that didn't have enough users to justify continuing. Stuff like that is even worse, from an archive point of view, as there's no way at all to access it. If you had the old mobile files, you could technically run those.

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34 minutes ago, K said:

 

Fair enough. I also found your 'so you've never downloaded a rom?' a bit accusatory, but my last sentence was prickishly aggressive, so apologies for that. We are probably mostly on the same page - I think preservation for older games is absolutely vital, and without piracy so many old games would be lost. I just think it's a complex situation that isn't well-served by Jim Sterling's typically simplistic take that everything that will be taken off the Sony store in July will suddenly become public domain. He's like Stuart Campbell for the Youtube age.

 

Apologies for the accusatory tone, I think it was too aggressive. I often wonder if Sterling is trapped by the same algorithm they often screech about. I know they've complained in the past that unless they do one of these over the top outrage videos, only a fraction of people watch. I think it's a shame as they often bring up very good points and covers stuff that other people don't.

Full disclosure, ever since Sony announced the store was going I inadvertently ended up modding my Vita. I had grabbed my Vita out of storage and wanted to make sure I got everything I wanted. Turns out, there's not a lot of Vita stuff worth playing. The only thing I wanted was the Netflix app and that was only ever available in the US.

I wanted everything I owned, downloaded and safe from Sony so after a brief trip to Amazon to see if the memory cards were still ludicrously priced, I noticed the top result was for an SD2Vita and I ended up buying one. An official 64GB Sony Vita Memory Card will set you back North of £160 these days. I got the SD2Vita adaptor and a 256GB MicroSD card for £37. It's a bit overkill considering there are only four Vita games worth playing but I have turned it into an emulation machine. Yes, I have played through Streets of Rage II and that'll probably be it until I need to fly somewhere again. I was also able to get the Netflix app finally, who knows if it even still works.

 

With regards to preservation it'd be nice if they all followed Microsoft's model and even tried to improve the experience of playing catalogue titles. I think the only legal way to play Metal Gear Solid 4 is through PlayStation Now, which streams at 720p and at a guess is like the original, running at 30fps with drops. People of dubious legality can play in 4k 60fps and it looks incredible from the YouTube videos. Experiences that customers pay for should be superior to the illegal option, there's no excuse.

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Having seen the list of digital only games that will be lost - the big thing here is clearly the principle rather than the lost access to these items specifically. FOMO would be driving any panic buying of these because in the years and years of owning a PS3 and Vita - I've never given a fuck about the majority of those things and I doubt I and many others will now. 

 

And because this appears to be a general point about software preservation - it doesn't really justify downloading games you probably wouldn't have cared about if there wasn't a clock counting down until it can continue to sit there in your library unplayed for eternity.

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51 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

Every dumpster thread eventually becomes a vehicle for the Driveclub post.

I'm still very bitter.  I do make a point of including Driveclub, Ridge Racer, Burnout 2 or Outrun 2 in every thread, just for the fun of it. 

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54 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

 

I wonder how much it would cost for Sony to retrofit games like Driveclub to be offline-only.

I bet it's not economically viable, they closed the studio, destroyed the disks and cut off everyone's hair.  But I think that precisely the fact Sony will never do it is the reason modders should be allowed to. 

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Part of the preservation thing is that the hackers cam collectively put the time into a project and have the potentially unlimited manpower of the internet community.  Something like MAME surely wouldn't exist if it wasn't for people all around the world adding and improving features for the last 30 years.  

 

Like, AM2R which is brilliant but everyone involved was paid by the hour and had a year to make it, it wouldn't end up the same product and probably would lose money anyway.  You need the hacker community to be doing this stuff for the love of doing it, Sony won't do it, but I'd guess they maybe can't do it for financial reasons.

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1 hour ago, dumpster said:

I'm still very bitter.  I do make a point of including Driveclub, Ridge Racer, Burnout 2 or Outrun 2 in every thread, just for the fun of it. 

 

Not forgetting sega Rally!

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2 hours ago, K said:

 

Well, no. But at the same time, the games have been on there for years - I struggle to believe there are a great many people who own PS3s/Vitas/PSPs, who want to buy the games that are being de-listed and aren't available on any other platforms that they own, who haven't gotten around to buying them in the period they've been on the store and aren't in a position to buy them in the next three months. That seems like the absolute definition of an edge case to me.

 

With all the thousands of games available in the world you find it hard to believe that someone may have A) not focused on getting their fill of all the PS3/Vita/PSP they might ever want to play B) not have the wherewithal to suddenly buy them all? ok then.

 

I won't respond to the rest because we're in agreement; I'm not justifying pirating these games.

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54 minutes ago, Camel said:

 

With all the thousands of games available in the world you find it hard to believe that someone may have A) not focused on getting their fill of all the PS3/Vita/PSP they might ever want to play B) not have the wherewithal to suddenly buy them all? ok then.

 

I won't respond to the rest because we're in agreement; I'm not justifying pirating these games.

 

The list of games is here: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/revealed-the-138-playstation-games-that-wont-be-available-anywhere-after-store-closures/

 

They're mostly pretty obscure. I would honestly say the number of people who want to buy these games must be pretty small, let alone the number who fit into all those other categories of the Venn diagram. And to be absolutely clear, if they did want to buy them and couldn't, I wouldn't object to them pirating them. To be brutally honest, I'm not that bothered if anyone pirates them, I just don't think Sony shutting the online store changes very much about the ethics of doing so.

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I modded my Vita to use an SDVita and to cram loads of emulation stuff into it so have absolutely no moral standing here but some of the bigger PS3 titles (Infamous Festival of Blood, Tokyo Jungle etc) are available through PSNow which does mean they are still playable through official means. However, DLC for PS3 games on Now don't work so you aren't getting the 'full' experience that way. I'm a big supporter of the whole idea of digital archiving and treating games as a medium worth preserving but me using PKGj to get stuff onto my Vita ain't that. 

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2 hours ago, Uzi said:

Having seen the list of digital only games that will be lost - the big thing here is clearly the principle rather than the lost access to these items specifically. FOMO would be driving any panic buying of these because in the years and years of owning a PS3 and Vita - I've never given a fuck about the majority of those things and I doubt I and many others will now. 

 

And because this appears to be a general point about software preservation - it doesn't really justify downloading games you probably wouldn't have cared about if there wasn't a clock counting down until it can continue to sit there in your library unplayed for eternity.

 

Well it forced me to finally buy Patchwork Heroes after years of procrastination about trying to play my Jp UMD with a guide/translation.

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All this says to me is that Square-Enix need to rectify that the only legitimate way to play Tactics Ogre:Let Us Cling Together will be to buy a second hand copy on UMD (which I already have)

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  • dumpster changed the title to You may NOT pirate Psp, Vita and PS3

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