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The state of WoW and other MMORPGs


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Since the late 90s I've always been dragged to the idea of MMORPGs and I was lucky enough to attend a Uni who had free internet in the dorm rooms that didn't block everything, so I got to try Ultima Online when it was released. 
It was a fantastic experience, and even though it looked rough and was slow the entire "everyone is controlled by another human somewhere in the world" thing was very exciting to me. Later on I got hooked on Phantasy Star Online and then Anarchy Online which blew my mind and did stuff than no other game has attempted since. The main problem with these games was that the learning curve was steep and as games the average MMO would require a lot of time investment from its players. 

I enjoyed about a year of Final Fantasy XI Online before I was beginning to think that MMOs was a bit too niche for the majority of players but that changed with WoW. 


What felt like an overnight success for Blizzard, players were pouring in from all corners of the world and before long there was a massive community and everyone was eager to help one and another. 

I stuck with WoW for years and a lot of the online friends became real life friends, some of which I've visited in other countries. 

Due to real life taking up more and more of my time I had to step down as a Guild Master, after being one for nearly 8 years, then I just found less time to play and ultimately I quit. 

 

WoW as a game and community lived on and over the following years I returned briefly for each of the expansions only to learn that I struggled to get back into it. Gone were my online friends, all the places I knew and loved had been made almost redundant as new continents had been introduced, I didn't get to grips with the new class talents and skills which had changed since the early days etc. 

 

Fast forward to the year 2020, circa April, and lockdown had me spending a lot more time at home so I bought the latest expansion of WoW and decided to start a new, guildless character. 

The first few levels were fine, I was back in the good old starter zones and knew every nook and cranny of the big cities. But as soon as I progressed past unlocking the Dungeon Finder, things started to go askew. 

Every group I joined to do a dungeon were either dead silent and just rushed through the places, or they were really hostile. I was hoping that I'd been unlucky with the groups I'd been matched with but when I started to take the good old manual approach to set up a group I was met with the same kind of hostility and elitism. I was scoffed at because my item level was too low, or I didn't have the right enchants on my gear, or I had the wrong class build etc. No matter what I tried there was hostility. 

 

I stopped subbing after three months, I couldn't take it anymore as the community made the game really bad for me. I still had the itch, though so I started to do some research on WoW Pirvate Servers and after trying a few buggy ones I found a Blizz like server that runs an older version of the game, but it's nigh on perfect in terms of scripting and being as close to the retail game as one could expect from an unofficial host. 

 

The big kicker, though, was to find out that the community was really lovely. Everywhere I turned there were friendly and helpful souls, strangers threw gold and massive bags at me with instructions to pay it forward when I got good enough. 

About 6 months ago, Blizz released a new expansion and I felt I had to give it a chance. To no surprise it quickly boiled down to the same thing I'd seen before, hostile players who all know best, with so much money in their pockets they can simply buy whatever they want with loads to spare. After a few weeks I was back to the private server and there I am still, having a great time with lovely people. 

 

Almost every week, though, I find articles who all report the same thing. All MMO games are seeing massive losses of playerbase and new games never hits a trend status meaning they fail to attract new players. 
It's sad to see that that the official version of WoW is nothing but a shadow of it former self, both in terms of actual content and community, it's also sad to see that the entire genre seems to be dying rather quickly. 

 

Has the time of MMOs come and gone or should we expect to see a new king entering the arena to fight for the throne in which WoW has been sitting for a decade and a half?

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The MMO as we knew it is dead. I have lots of thoughts on all this but I'm on my phone and I'm too lazy to type an essay but the gist is that the rise and proliferation of social media and the immediacy of information 24 hours a day isn't conducive to the kind of community we had back in the day. 

 

Back then you were making an investment of time into the games and you gravitated towards like minded people. The games required patience and had a learning curve. By the nature of how people's attention spans have changed because of the immediacy of information and connectivity games have likewise changed accordingly. It's the same in things like Overwatch and Dead By Daylight, people expect immediate results of competency and if you don't have that then get ready to be sneered and jibed at.

 

I find all this less on consoles because you can limit the interaction with the group. Usually there's no text chat and you can block messages from anyone but friends so if people do send me shit I don't see it, but on PC it's much more open. And PC players are terrible, obvs.

 

 

Basically times have changed, people fucking suck and you can't go back.

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Saw Asomongold talking about this on his stream a while back and he was making some good points. Pretty much saying that MMO's are the only game genre that has refused to innovate for at least 10 years, they are archaic messes of games and the player base puts up with so much shit because of the connections they have to the game and people they play with, I tend to agree with him on this point.

 

Hopefully we'll see another big MMO hit. That feeling playing WoW at the start is pretty much unparalleled.

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12 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Basically times have changed, people fucking suck and you can't go back.

 

The Oracle of Truth has spoken :) ( and also :( )

 

What you said @moosegrinder all makes perfect sense and fits right in with the experiences I've had the last handful of year. 
I think it's sad, though, that we can't have successful games like these even in this day and age. Don't get me wrong, I still feel games are awesome and I love services like Xbox Gamepass and the like but with such services I tend to approach the games in a different manner, as in installing, playing for 1-5 hours then on to the next. 

What I like with MMOs is that it can turn into a secondary reality for me, a place in which I can escape, grow and be a part of something bigger. Even when I'm not playing, I know the game carries on and changes will be made by my friends while I'm offline, I really hope there will be a place for this kind of game in the future. 

 

I think you're correct in saying that people expect results far more quickly now and even epic singleplayer games like the Final Fantasy games, Kings Quest and, well, basically all JRPGs are getting less and less popular. We see more and more of games that can be finished in 6-12 hours, or even less with multiple playthroughs as a gamedesign mechanic and at this rate we're slowly getting back to the way games were designed in the 8- and 16bit era, where you could complete most games in one sitting. The big difference, though, is back then we would see around 10 games released each month, now it's more like 400 games each month which makes it harder and harder for the devs to find the recipe for success. 

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Final Fantasy XIV hangs on to this spirit better than most, it's probably the most active MMO around and the way it's structured throws people together for dungeons on a regular basis so people can't play it entirely solo even if they want to. I've always found the community helpful and friendly and it keeps old content in rotation as well so you don't really get the feeling of having missed out on stuff or being barrelled through older content at unnatural speeds like you do with WoW.

 

Lord of the Rings Online is fairly sparsely populated but it's my favourite "world to hang out in" mostly because it's absolutely huge and really quite an exceptional recreation of the source material. It's incredibly atmospheric if you've got any fondness for Tolkien's works at all. Again the player base is friendly, you won't interact with people much if at all in-game but the chat channels, kinships etc are often just full of nice people hanging out. It also has resisted the WoW route of speeding people through to the latest content so those initial few hours in the Shire, Bree etc are as chilled out and atmospheric as they ever were.

 

The genre's not dead but it is full of old stalwarts, it's hard to see any kind of new entrant picking up much momentum. The most successful recent MMO is probably Elder Scrolls Online and that's essentially a single-player game with other people running around. (I like it though).

 

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3 minutes ago, Qazimod said:

I don’t follow the genre that much, but I wonder if it’s more of a “classic” MMO thing where your WoWs are petrified of change, scared of disrupting the long-term players. Meanwhile I’ve always had the impression that the likes of FFXIV and even genre hybrids such as Destiny and Warframe are using an “MMO” space to grow a community and experiment with new ideas. But like I said, I’m more of an onlooker so I could be talking nonsense. :P 

 

I think with a game like WoW, big changes would throw off the hardcore regulars as they would complain that it's too different. The main problem with challengers to WoW over the years has been that they've more or less copied large parts of WoW's core mechanics with slight variations in the gameplay department but ultimately they've been shunned as WoW copies/wannabes instead of something new to play instead of WoW. 

I don't envy Blizzard and the challenges they face with WoW in the future because I feel they've done what they can with the IP, and then some.

 

There's so much content now that they had to change the way you experience the game with the latest expansion. If you start a new character in the newest iteration of WoW you have to choose which expansion pack to travel through, excluding a lot of the others and while that works as a mechanic, new players struggle to make sense of the story as there's no linear story arch anymore. Unless you're a veteran it's impossible to make sense of the current way the story is being told (it was never easy to begin with) and you might reach a point where the faction you're doing quests for are thanking you for assisting them in a prior war, which you might not even have attended in because you chose a different route to get there. 

Throw in time travel where in one moment you're on a quest to rescue a baby and in the next moment you're getting quests from an old orc who turns out to be the baby you just rescued you're in for a confusing mess. 

 

At this point I think it would make more sense for Blizzard to start fresh, either with a WoW 2 or World of Diablo or something comepletely new, because continuing to pile content on top of WoW just makes it harder and harder for new players to get sucked in while the hardcore veterans are served content that will last them only 1-3 months. 

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I deleted my post because I thought I was talking nonsense :blush: But yes, I imagine something like WoW is tricky to juggle in terms of managing content and catering to all players. :D 

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I'd love to see the genre evolve on consoles, though. With the release of Genshin Impact it has proven that MMOs can be designed with console friendly mechanics and that game has seen an insane popularity boost. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they've had a comfortable 100+ million monthly players since release and are steadily growing each month. 

Granted, Genshin Impact is not exactly an MMO, it's more like a traditional JRPG with MMO elements but as it's playable on both last gen consoles and smart phones one can only imagine what would be possible to do on current gen consoles if something similar was designed for them. 

If the next Elder Scrolls game turns out to have multiplayer it could very well be an amazing thing but I don't dare to hope for that happening as Bethesda has said numerous times over the years that TES main series would always remain single player only. Still, as @moosegrinder mentioned, times have changed and hopefully the games will change as well. 

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1 hour ago, Rayn said:

But as soon as I progressed past unlocking the Dungeon Finder, things started to go askew. 

Every group I joined to do a dungeon were either dead silent and just rushed through the places, or they were really hostile. I was hoping that I'd been unlucky with the groups I'd been matched with but when I started to take the good old manual approach to set up a group I was met with the same kind of hostility and elitism. I was scoffed at because my item level was too low, or I didn't have the right enchants on my gear, or I had the wrong class build etc. No matter what I tried there was hostility. 

 

[...]

 

About 6 months ago, Blizz released a new expansion and I felt I had to give it a chance. To no surprise it quickly boiled down to the same thing I'd seen before, hostile players who all know best

 

Nice post/thread otherwise but I have to say: these quoted parts sound like either rose-tinted memories or you doing everything with guildmates originally and rarely teaming up with randoms. Your description exactly matches most PUG experiences I ever had in WoW back in the day (which would be up to and including the late 00s, I guess). Fundamentally, these approaches to getting temporary groups together doesn't really encourage much 'team spirit' and most people are just rerunning the same dungeons they've done 50 times before. Obviously, this doesn't mean you have to be an arsehole about it, but that's hardly the least likely outcome in online gaming.

 

When you're in something longer term, like a guild or playing with a group of existing acquaintances, you have something to lose. That's not very true of PUGs full of people you'll never see again. (And of course the cross-realm PUGing they introduced when player numbers dropped didn't help here either, as now you would definitely never see them again.)

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Isn't one of the big changes in MMOs over the years the fact that they are designed now to largely be played solo, with grouping up more an occasional activity? 

 

I used to play Dark Ages of Camelot (it was very good) and whilst you could run around on your own, progress would be glacial so you needed to group-up. I think the original Guild Wars was the first to really go down the 'you can solo everything' route and now it is the norm.

 

That is going to obviously impact on how any community treats a game and make it become a bit more of a race to the endgame, I would think.

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5 minutes ago, hmm said:

 

Nice post/thread otherwise but I have to say: these quoted parts sound like either rose-tinted memories or you doing everything with guildmates originally and rarely teaming up with randoms. Your description exactly matches most PUG experiences I ever had in WoW back in the day (which would be up to and including the late 00s, I guess). Fundamentally, these approaches to getting temporary groups together doesn't really encourage much 'team spirit' and most people are just rerunning the same dungeons they've done 50 times before. Obviously, this doesn't mean you have to be an arsehole about it, but that's hardly the least likely outcome in online gaming.

 

When you're in something longer term, like a guild or playing with a group of existing acquaintances, you have something to lose. That's not very true of PUGs full of people you'll never see again. (And of course the cross-realm PUGing they introduced when player numbers dropped didn't help here either, as now you would definitely never see them again.)

 

There's no doubt I'm recalling my time with WoW with rose-tinted glasses, I'm afraid that's inevitable, but I still think the hostility has become far worse over the years, not just inside PUGs. 

Originally, there was a lot of fun being had by taking the piss of the opposing faction, be it using emotes like /spit or /fist or whatever or doing raids on opposing cities and villages but that entire mentality seems to be gone and now it seems you're entitled to hate every other player in the game that's not in your own guild which baffles me. Why would you hate players of other guild within the same faction? It just doesn't make sense to me. 

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54 minutes ago, Garwoofoo said:

Final Fantasy XIV hangs on to this spirit better than most, it's probably the most active MMO around and the way it's structured throws people together for dungeons on a regular basis so people can't play it entirely solo even if they want to. I've always found the community helpful and friendly and it keeps old content in rotation as well so you don't really get the feeling of having missed out on stuff or being barrelled through older content at unnatural speeds like you do with WoW.

 

Lord of the Rings Online is fairly sparsely populated but it's my favourite "world to hang out in" mostly because it's absolutely huge and really quite an exceptional recreation of the source material. It's incredibly atmospheric if you've got any fondness for Tolkien's works at all. Again the player base is friendly, you won't interact with people much if at all in-game but the chat channels, kinships etc are often just full of nice people hanging out. It also has resisted the WoW route of speeding people through to the latest content so those initial few hours in the Shire, Bree etc are as chilled out and atmospheric as they ever were.

 

The genre's not dead but it is full of old stalwarts, it's hard to see any kind of new entrant picking up much momentum. The most successful recent MMO is probably Elder Scrolls Online and that's essentially a single-player game with other people running around. (I like it though).

 

Exactly this. If you're new to a dungeon, trial, raid, whatever, and say so, people are nearly always fine with taking things slower or pointing out anything you need to be aware of. Tanks set the pace usually, if the healer appears to be new (hasn't spoken up but from what I understand Tanks usually check everyones gear so they know how to pull) then they'll adjust, if you're DPS and you know you're rotation at that level then you'll be fine. If you're Dragoon, you're almost expected to die because SE have never properly changed the animations for jumps that leave you open if you don't know the correct time to use it.

 

The [i]only[/i] bad time I've had on FFXIV was playing with some French players who clearly knew each other and started mocking me in chat when I made a few mistakes on something I hadn't run in a long, long time (and was initially thrown because certain skills had been removed from my rotation due to it being a lower level dungeon), but meh, I added them to my blacklist.

 

I've seen videos from YouTubers such as Zepla who have made the move from WoW to FFXIV and have commented on how toxic WoW can often be in comparison to FFXIV. Obviously its not a perfect utopia, but so long as you stay away from the Limsa Lominsa aetheryte plaze, you'll usually avoid sme of the scum and villainy.

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I remember when online gaming was really just getting going properly (PS2 era say), I was so excited for what I imagined what be some sort of utopia of sporting gentlemanly online interactions. A load of like minded folk coming together to enjoy the games they love. Basically everything was going to be like Demon's Souls where players bowed to each other. In retrospect this was so naive I feel embarrassed remembering it.

 

(I had no excuse really, IRC and Usenet should have taught me all I needed to know about people online)

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I've gone back to WoW after like 8 years or something and I've been enjoying it a lot. Insane amount of content to go through, easy to level, and you don't really need to talk to anyone if you don't want to. The community is no worse than it used to be, although I haven't really been PUG-ing at all. Stuff like BGs and so forth are noticably less toxic than they used to be, and most of the interactions I've had with randoms have been fine, it's actually been a lot less elitist shouting than it used to be.

 

That said, the game is more or less the same as it used to be. As in, the gameplay hasn't really moved on in a decade. Which if you like flying about picking flowers like I do then it's fine. If you want an actual engaging experience then it's probably less so. WoW at the start was an MMO, now you could level to 60 without interacting with anyone, and as a game in itself, it's not that great.

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The single worst thing that they've done is achievements and item levels really. If you want to do Ranked Battlegrounds people want a certain level of gear, if you want to do a PUG Mythic dungeon, people want the achievement linked or your Raider.IO score. I think they are actually integrating some of the Raider.Io stuff in the next patch, which is a horrible decision. A lot of the systems now do encourage people to be twats, so if you are like me, you just don't use those systems, and if the entire endgame is based around them, it's not a great way of keeping people interested.

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I had a good positive time with FFXIV. Like others have said the community generally is quite nice. Especially in dungeons. These days though I don't think I can play tab targeting, quest driven theme park MMOs anymore. They're just too structured and limiting and generally end up as a "How fast can you get to endgame"

 

I know it has a lot of faults but Black Desert Online is the closest anyone has come to an open world MMO since Ultima Online was good. Yes there are quests and a main questline. No you don't have to do them if you don't want to (You should since they have some very useful rewards) but there's also life skilling and the entire game is designed around you basically making your own fun.

 

I think for MMOs to evolve and grow in popularity they need to look more into the openness of games like UO/BDO and also things like the survival genre. People love the fuck out of base building in games like Rust and Valheim. MMOs need to incorporate more stuff like that rather than straightjacket us with story. I'm sure that building systems to enable players to make their own stories will end up being far more rewarding that writing your own twaddle about contender number 13 to destroy the world.

 

Hell. Look at Dwarf Fortress.

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I personally think "Endgame" is part of the problem but it's a difficult one to fix. GW2 had a stab and despite its problems I feel overall has been a positive game. I don't feel theme park mmos are the future. More an evolutionary dead end that due to the insane popularity of WoW developers are finding hard to let go of. Also MMOs generally are mega expensive to develop and mega expensive to run. I don't think the publishers that are big enough to create them  want to take on the risk of making one.

 

There are a lot of Korean (And I believe chinese) mmos coming out every year but there's plenty of reasons why they never seem to make it big in the west.

 

Regarding WoW2. Blizzard have the same issue here that EA had with Ultima Online. How do you make a sequel to a game that is still raking in the money but slowing down? EA had two attempts with UO and decided not to finish either for fear people would leave UO but not as many would play the sequel (Where you'd be starting from scratch). Blizzard have the same problem. People have dedicated a long time to playing WoW. How many would start again? What if it turned out WoW 2 wasn't as good as it should be? Money? Money? And if they wait until WoW is all played out and basically on life support who in Activision/Blizzard would want to chance lightning striking twice?  Blizz already tried to make a new MMO and it didn't work (See Overwatch). This shit is super hard but I think so many have failed because they tried to be their own versions of WoW rather than striking off in new directions. But again the risk factor means who's going to bankroll it?

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Flub said:

 

Regarding WoW2. Blizzard have the same issue here that EA had with Ultima Online. How do you make a sequel to a game that is still raking in the money but slowing down? 

 

 

It seems Blizzard has reached its final stretch of WoW's life expectancy, which started with the release of WoW Classic. I know quite a few WoW veterans who's already said they're done with WoW and has stopped subbing while waiting for WoW Classic TBC to be released. I kinda like the idea of them adding the old builds with official support but I'm not too fond of the business model as you have to pay the premium sub to get access to it. If I could access WoW Classic for a smaller fee I'd be all over it but this is exactly why I've ended up with playing WoW on unofficial servers. 

The version of the game I'm playing is the Pandaria one, an expansion I didn't like much when it was released but to be honest I'm really loving it now as I've given it far more time than I did back in the day on the official servers, there's loads of end game content for those who want a solo experience and there's also a lot of group content. I've ended up in a guild where the average age is above 40 and the majority of the current guild members played it in its infancy so it's refreshing to rediscover the game with like minded players and to explore corners of the game I didn't touch back then. 

 

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One possible issue with the classic servers is how long will people play a game that never changes? Pretty soon they're going to run out of "Classic" builds that people will actually play. I'd say Wrath would be the end of that since Cataclysm seems to be where the rot started. (I enjoyed Cata at the time though). MMOs are a form of GAAS. They live and die by the content and what they enable players to experience. I'm unsure if WoW classic servers have long term legs. Once you have all the best gear and have the hardest raid on farm what's left?

 

Back when UO was the biggest game in town there were zero quests. None whatsoever. There was no endgame and the only progression was your gear and stats (And gear was fairly limited as well). The community around those games was huge. PK guilds, festivals, player organised contests, player run taverns, player shops. It was an attempt to give you tools and a world to use them in but essentially let you make your own fun. While WoW is an amazing achievement it probably did huge damage to the genre long term simply by being so popular. I'm imagining endless pitches to management for new innovative titles being shot down because they weren't WoW.

 

 

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I blame WOW for the demise of MMOs myself.  It drove the popularity of theme park MMOS which in the end are just glorified single player games. As someone said above, loads of content , you dont even really have to talk to anyone...

EVE Online is the outlier, the only really innovative sandbox MMO that persisted and it just shows how increbile MMOs could have been if WOW hadn't changed the general direction. 

I played Black Desert Online because I heard it was going to be a sandbox MMO , I imagined a fantasy version of EVE and was dissapointed. I'm not saying it was a bad game I quite enjoyed aspects of it.

I'd love to see more emergent gameplay in MMOs but you only get that in sandboxes with more realistic economies and above all NO shards! 

ATLAS was an interesting game that had some potential, but didn't quite make it passed some of the inherent design problems.

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We all just got old.

 

 

 

Launch wow was so good. My favourite gaming memory. I remember being in game hearing two people talk about it and I thought they must have been exaggerating. I picked up a copy and remember loving it the moment I went into orgrimmar. People everywhere. Lovely artsyle and music. But most importantly, people could see what you had worked so hard to achieve. It consumed my life and for about a year I preferred living in the wow world to the real world!

 

But I also remember the shit side of wow. Getting fucking ganked and camped by rogues. People refusing to teach you mechanics in the lfg. Killing one thousand baddies for one drop. Spawning on the other side of the universe to your pals because you wanted to be a cool race. Not being taken on raids because your class wasnt the 'meta'. Queeing for hours to play a new expansion. Gimps tagging every baddie in an area so you can do your quests. Needing one hundred gold to buy a month.

 

It had its bad bits!

 

I really liked ff14 as you could play solo and just team up when you felt like it, but for some weird reason it never released on Xbox so I can't play it anymore.

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The only MMO I ever played was FFXI, but I look back on it with the same nostalgia I have for my real world past.

 

Rock hard, and impossible to progress solo (when I was playing) but I got my kicks out of trying to do the impossible and facing the sheer challenge of it all with a small group of good friends (in-game friends that is, not RL ones).

 

I started to sour on it when it became apparent that (more or less) everybody just googled the Allakazham website for walkthroughs on every quest, and didn’t go into anything without knowing what was going to happen. Also PC players installed plug-ins which analysed DPS, timed notorious monster spawns, and various other exploits that were used to take all of the fun out of it (from my perspective).

 

The same elitism crept in too, even from people I considered my peers. I was a black mage, with a summoner sub-job. I wanted this to be able to keep my MP high for optimum damage dealing magic. The community at large decided this is not the way it should be done - all BLMs should sub white mage and work as a secondary healer for their parties. I got so much grief for daring to not be on healing duties for missions.

 

The most fun I ever had was when I discovered I could do weapon skill chains with my summoned avatars (usually required two players to time their weapon skills so that an elemental bonus could be achieved, which mages could use to boost magic damage). I was able to use my weapon skill, follow with a summoned avatar’s attack which would trigger an elemental bonus that I could then magic burst with my own spells. Because I was in control of both sides of the attack, I was able to set up dark magic bursts (very rare) and cast drain to recover my own HP and lots of cool stuff like that.

 

One evening in the Yuhtunga jungle I had managed to get a random party consisting mostly of mages (black and red) and I was attacking the mobs with my dagger to trigger these skill chain bursts. Every mage in the party was bursting off it and we were ripping through the enemies. Hugely successful, and lots of fun. When I talked about it afterwards in my linkshell I got humiliated and laughed at, because apparently a mage engaging in physical combat was not high level enough to actually hit the mobs, and would also increase the chance of the mob retaliating with it’s own weapon skill. Total bollocks, as I had already proved to myself - but it didn’t matter. The hive mind had spoken.

 

Another notable gripe I had was when I wanted to finish the main quest with my friends/peers of appropriate level - everyone else wanted high level players to chaperone us through it so we couldn’t fail. I had to compromise and accept a chaperone for the journey, so we could do the actual battle by ourselves. Nobody else was up for the challenge, might as well have just been ticking boxes instead of playing the game.

 

I loved the living breathing world of the game, but ironically it was spoiled by the other players - most of the good memories I have are of things I did on my own.

 

I gave it up when I left the country and vowed never to play another MMO. From what I understand they are all easy mode these days, so wouldn’t be the same.

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That's all really interesting, reading your XI experience as a XIV player. There are still players who are obsessed with parsing in XIV but they tend to stick to their statics and do all the high end content, I'm happy enough plodding along doing standard difficulty stuff, levelling jobs and taking my time. 

 

There's a few attitudes regarding "hardcore" and "casuals" that does piss me off a little, I've not seen it in-game so much, but it's there in Discord servers. Though I notice it more from American players than any other region.

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