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How do you feel about £70 for a game?


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9 hours ago, Wahwah* said:

I'm surprised that Sony went for £70 for this game,  given the Developer and what I've seen of the game,  I honestly thought it was more a £25 indie, not a top price AAA release. That's not intended as a slight,  it looks good,  but their previous games were smaller affairs,  and AFAIK they're not a huge company. 

 

 

I don't really understand this.

 

The game absolutely drips with high production values and attention to detail whether that be in the design and execution of the graphics, the sound, the music or, most importantly, in the incredibly honed, laser focused, gameplay. Earlier Housemarque games may well have been smaller but this feels as big and 'triple A' as anything I've played on PS5. It's certainly a full price feeling game even if that price had been set high. 

 

It's definitely not a game for everyone (it may not even turn out to be for me as it really is quite challenging) and the RRP is too high but, really, I'm a little bit happier paying a high price for a bold new IP made with an awful lot of love and care by a uniquely talented dev than I would be for generic sequel/franchise installment X by some huge studio. 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Mike S said:

 

I don't really understand this.

 

The game absolutely drips with high production values and attention to detail whether that be in the design and execution of the graphics, the sound, the music or, most importantly, in the incredibly honed, laser focused, gameplay. Earlier Housemarque games may well have been smaller but this feels as big and 'triple A' as anything I've played on PS5. It's certainly a full price feeling game even if that price had been set high. 

 

It's definitely not a game for everyone (it may not even turn out to be for me as it really is quite challenging) and the RRP is too high but, really, I'm a little bit happier paying a high price for a bold new IP made with an awful lot of love and care by a uniquely talented dev than I would be for generic sequel/franchise installment X by some huge studio. 

I don't want to upset you and I'm sure it's a great game, it's a reasonable 86 on metacritic. But it doesn't present as a full price game to me. The materials I've seen suggested a very samey environment, procedural generation, it comes from a studio that I assumed generally made lower priced titles, doesn't have a major ad campaign (or not major enough to reach me), etc. Etc.  These are all things that I don't associate with a £60 (now £70) rrp.

 

I pumped loads of hours into Dead Cells and bought it twice, I'm not saying that less than £60 (now £70) means bad game. 

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Learned a valuable lesson this weekend. Maybe.

 

OOOH shiny thing! PS5 arrived! And it's great - Astro! Must get new games, see what shiny thing can do. £70 for Returnal ouch but... F it. It looks nice and I want some pretty gfx in my face. First weekend and all. LETS GOOOOO!

 

I hate the game. I am so close to uninstalling it. I am only now playing it because I paid £70 for it. I have pissed £70 up the wall and got nothing but misery out of it. MUST NOT DO THIS AGAIN.

 

*Will probably do this again. :doh:

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7 minutes ago, mexos said:

Learned a valuable lesson this weekend. Maybe.

 

OOOH shiny thing! PS5 arrived! And it's great - Astro! Must get new games, see what shiny thing can do. £70 for Returnal ouch but... F it. It looks nice and I want some pretty gfx in my face. First weekend and all. LETS GOOOOO!

 

I hate the game. I am so close to uninstalling it. I am only now playing it because I paid £70 for it. I have pissed £70 up the wall and got nothing but misery out of it. MUST NOT DO THIS AGAIN.

 

*Will probably do this again. :doh:


Ah stick with it, hopefully it’ll click once you get into it.

 

On the upside Wreckfest PS5 is coming to PS Plus this week :D.

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15 minutes ago, mexos said:

Learned a valuable lesson this weekend. Maybe.

 

OOOH shiny thing! PS5 arrived! And it's great - Astro! Must get new games, see what shiny thing can do. £70 for Returnal ouch but... F it. It looks nice and I want some pretty gfx in my face. First weekend and all. LETS GOOOOO!

 

I hate the game. I am so close to uninstalling it. I am only now playing it because I paid £70 for it. I have pissed £70 up the wall and got nothing but misery out of it. MUST NOT DO THIS AGAIN.

 

*Will probably do this again. :doh:

 

The more I read about the game the more I'm happy to wait until its below £30. And I NEED something to play on my PS5. 

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21 hours ago, Oz said:

It’s also done in addition to everything else. 

 

We pay this for legendary edition, then this for dlc, then this for a costume, then this for in-game currently, and the list goes on. 

 

They are already selling consoles and games in record numbers, the market is growing every year in terms of players and how much they spend. However, this is not enough. 

 

Sony's games don't have all that do they? I can't remember any microtransactions in their games. Proper DLC is fair enough.

 

I've not bought Demon's Souls or Returnal at £70 but then again I don't think I'd have bought them at £40. The first big test for me is likely to be God of War 2 (i.e I simply must have it at launch) but I'll just do what I do with Sony's other big single-player games - get them on disc as cheaply as possible then sell them on a few weeks later, with a net spend of £5-£10. In that regard, it doesn't make a huge amount of difference whether the initial cost is £50 or £70.

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OK, so I know I'm not comparing apples with apples (as I'm comparing PS5 with PC) but:

 

Pay £70 for Returnal

 

or:

 

Pay £70 for Resident Evil VIII + Mass Effect Trilogy Remastered

 

Which of these is the better value proposition?

 

£70 might not be too much in terms of inflation but it is too much in terms of what £70 can get you in the marketplace.

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1 hour ago, ox1973 said:

OK, so I know I'm not comparing apples with apples (as I'm comparing PS5 with PC) but:

 

Pay £70 for Returnal

 

or:

 

Pay £70 for Resident Evil VIII + Mass Effect Trilogy Remastered

 

Which of these is the better value proposition?

 

£70 might not be too much in terms of inflation but it is too much in terms of what £70 can get you in the marketplace.

And when you add in subscriptions...

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6 hours ago, Wahwah* said:

I don't want to upset you and I'm sure it's a great game, it's a reasonable 86 on metacritic. But it doesn't present as a full price game to me. The materials I've seen suggested a very samey environment, procedural generation, it comes from a studio that I assumed generally made lower priced titles, doesn't have a major ad campaign (or not major enough to reach me), etc. Etc.  These are all things that I don't associate with a £60 (now £70) rrp.

 

I pumped loads of hours into Dead Cells and bought it twice, I'm not saying that less than £60 (now £70) means bad game. 

 

I didn't say I was upset, I said I was surprised that anyone could look at Returnal and conclude that it was a budget game given that nothing about it is any kind of downgrade from the usual Sony first party slickness and quality.

 

That a studio has a history of releasing lower priced, cheaper, arcade style games should not really preclude them from being considered anything less than equals to anyone else in the industry so it's a bit depressing to see (not specifically you) people suggesting that they are an 'indie' studio so must charge 'indie' prices regardless of the quality of the art they make. It's probably better to judge the game on its own merits rather than expectations based on previous games. I also feel it is a bit harsh to make judgments on a game's value based on the amount of advertising it may or may not have received as that is a whole other matter and one that seems unrelated to the value of a game as entertainment. 

 

With regards to value, I have put well over twenty hours into the game over this long weekend (and have still not even defeated the first boss (mostly through not really trying to as I get lost in the constant minute to minute action and end up getting killed by greed and curiosity)) so in terms of value I feel I have already had my £60 worth relative to other games and other media. Of course I'd rather it had been released at a £50 RRP or lower but I certainly do not think I have been undercharged with regards to return on that investment. And I definitely do not think the game automatically should be priced cheaper on account of it being an arcade game rather than, for example, some bloated RPG. 

 

Returnal is the sort of left field, niche, game that I don't think would is going to be a sales record breaker at any price point - it is almost wilfully anti commercial in some respects - the difficulty, the lack of saves, the dark cosmic horror vibe, the non typical protagonist, the obtusity of the systems, etc, etc but, again, I don't think being unusual and a challenging sell should necessarily result in a cheaper price point.

 

Incidentally, I don't think anyone has said that less than £60 (or whatever) equals bad game BTW as that would be a patently ridiculous position.

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Re games costing £40 ages ago - I think that might be true for the SNES/Megadrive era, but then weren't PS2 games basically all £30 at one point? Plus there was absolutely rampant piracy at that point with people selling burned game discs on market stalls all over the place. And that played a big part in a) making games mainstream/growing the market and b) setting people's general impression of what a 'fair' price is

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7 hours ago, Oz said:

I worry they will learn the wrong lesson and kill either single player games, rogue likes, sci-fi games or challenging games.

 

Indeed.

 

I'm not mad keen on spending the £60 I spent on this on one game and certainly won't be doing so for too many games but I really don't mind supporting a dedicated, focused, dev such as Housemarque and reminding publishers that some of us like to see a new IP, even more so when it is as bold and odd as Returnal,  instead of yet another sequel to yet another never ending franchise...

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4 minutes ago, panda_t said:

weren't PS2 games basically all £30 at one point?

RRP was £39.99-£44.99 at launch and it never really dropped below that. I remember paying £40 each for ZOE1, The Thing, and LotR: The Two Towers early on, and £40 for FFXII and MGS3:S towards the end of the product life.

 

Not to say there weren't budget releases, GDF was £25 I think, which is about £35 today.

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23 minutes ago, Mike S said:

 

I didn't say I was upset, I said I was surprised that anyone could look at Returnal and conclude that it was a budget game given that nothing about it is any kind of downgrade from the usual Sony first party slickness and quality.

 

That a studio has a history of releasing lower priced, cheaper, arcade style games should not really preclude them from being considered anything less than equals to anyone else in the industry so it's a bit depressing to see (not specifically you) people suggesting that they are an 'indie' studio so must charge 'indie' prices regardless of the quality of the art they make. It's probably better to judge the game on its own merits rather than expectations based on previous games. I also feel it is a bit harsh to make judgments on a game's value based on the amount of advertising it may or may not have received as that is a whole other matter and one that seems unrelated to the value of a game as entertainment. 

 

With regards to value, I have put well over twenty hours into the game over this long weekend (and have still not even defeated the first boss (mostly through not really trying to as I get lost in the constant minute to minute action and end up getting killed by greed and curiosity)) so in terms of value I feel I have already had my £60 worth relative to other games and other media. Of course I'd rather it had been released at a £50 RRP or lower but I certainly do not think I have been undercharged with regards to return on that investment. And I definitely do not think the game automatically should be priced cheaper on account of it being an arcade game rather than, for example, some bloated RPG. 

 

Returnal is the sort of left field, niche, game that I don't think would is going to be a sales record breaker at any price point - it is almost wilfully anti commercial in some respects - the difficulty, the lack of saves, the dark cosmic horror vibe, the non typical protagonist, the obtusity of the systems, etc, etc but, again, I don't think being unusual and a challenging sell should necessarily result in a cheaper price point.

 

Incidentally, I don't think anyone has said that less than £60 (or whatever) equals bad game BTW as that would be a patently ridiculous position.

Glad you feel you got your money's worth. 

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10 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

Glad you feel you got your money's worth. 

 

Disregarding the tedious passive aggression, the buyers perceived value is the bottom line though isn't it? And most of the point of this discussion. 

 

Regardless of the price, if I find a game to be pppr and it ends up barely played then it doesn't matter what it cost - it was bad value. The best example recently of that was Doom Eternal which despite only costiing me £35 I found to be absolutely hopeless. And that was a digital purchase so quite the waste of money. 

 

 

 

 

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Resi Evil Village is under £50 quid on the PS5 at the end of the week.  
 

Asking £70 quid for a new IP in a relatively niche genre was always gonna be a non starter with the vast majority of gamers, and so I am in no way surprised sales figures are allegedly shite.

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42 minutes ago, Mike S said:

Disregarding the tedious passive aggression, the buyers perceived value is the bottom line though isn't it? And most of the point of this discussion. 

Honestly, I'm just trying to leave this conversation politely. I didn't want to get into an argument, I laid out why I thought it didn't look like a AAA game on the run up to it's release and why I was surprised at it's pricing, and I still think they're reasonable takes on the situation. I just don't know how to say it without disagreeing with you or getting into a granular debate that will go on all night. I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive, I was just trying to leave the conversation as friends. 

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Just now, Wahwah* said:

Honestly, I'm just trying to leave this conversation politely. I didn't want to get into an argument, I laid out why I thought it didn't look like a AAA game on the run up to it's release and why I was surprised at it's pricing, and I still think they're reasonable takes on the situation. I just don't know how to say it without disagreeing with you. I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive, I was just trying to leave the conversation as friends. 

 

Fair enough.

 

I thought I was polite enough in replying to the issues you raised and tried to offer salient counters but hey ho...

 

I hope you do try the game when it is, inevitably, in the sales as it really is a work of rare wonder and the sort of game we as gamers should be celebrating. It is not for everyone but, if it does connect, it will connect hard...

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50 minutes ago, Waggo said:

Resi Evil Village is under £50 quid on the PS5 at the end of the week.  
 

Asking £70 quid for a new IP in a relatively niche genre was always gonna be a non starter with the vast majority of gamers, and so I am in no way surprised sales figures are allegedly shite.

 

There may not be a huge cross over between people who want a 3rd person, time loop, bullet hell, rogue-like shooter and those that want another Resident Evil so I'm struggling with the comparison.

 

It is a niche game and that's why I bought it new now, rather than wait for the price drop/second hand and, equally, is why I'll wait for a second hand copy of the PS5 Ratchet and Clank. I'm not keen on encouraging this sort of pricing but will make an  exception for a novel IP by developers that have a strong track record whereas as I am keen to support something different. I'll not do it for Ratchet, or for too much else...

 

I think the more scandalous pricing is that of franchises and the increasingly ludicrous  'special' editions. Shite like a £90 COD or £100 FIFA yearly updates (and then with all the in game purchases you can throw a credit card at on top) make this look a relative bargain.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Wahwah* said:

I don't want to upset you and I'm sure it's a great game, it's a reasonable 86 on metacritic. But it doesn't present as a full price game to me. The materials I've seen suggested a very samey environment, procedural generation, it comes from a studio that I assumed generally made lower priced titles, doesn't have a major ad campaign (or not major enough to reach me), etc. Etc.  These are all things that I don't associate with a £60 (now £70) rrp.

 

I pumped loads of hours into Dead Cells and bought it twice, I'm not saying that less than £60 (now £70) means bad game. 


Graphics are AAA. Audio is AAA. Production values are AAA. It 100% feels like a AAA £70 game when you’re actually playing it. It’s also brand new IP, doing something creative and different, which should be rewarded. It’s easily the most “next gen” title released so far for the new machines too.
 

To add to that.......it’s made by a company that has a fantastic record and esteemed pedigree for making brilliant, old school, “hardcore” games, such as Resogun.......which singlehandedly sold me a PS4! I still play that now and will be doing for years to come, so it’s irrelevant really whether it cost £20 or £70 or was a AA or AAA game, because at the end of the day it’s just a fucking proper quality game......as is Returnal!

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7 minutes ago, Mike S said:

 

There may not be a huge cross over between people who want a 3rd person, time loop, bullet hell, rogue-like shooter and those that want another Resident Evil so I'm struggling with the comparison.

 

 

 

 


The comparison is Resi will sell a minimum ten times as many copies as Returnal when it launches at the £50 price point.  To be fair it probably would have done at a £70 price point as well, because it is a hugely successful IP that people know, enjoy and buy into.

 

Which just goes to make it all the more ridiculous that Returnal is priced £20 higher.  Whether or not you feel the game or the developers are deserving of the price is kind of irrelevant, because at that price 90% of potential consumers (myself included) were never going to give it a chance.  
 

Now I might pick it up second hand or in a sale somewhere down the line, or it might get lost in all the other games out there competing for my time and money.  Either way however the damage is done in terms of Returnal’s sales figures and whether or not the game is considered to be a commercial success.  
 

Which to my mind at least suggests the £70 price point is damaging to all parties concerned, in that I fail to see who benefits from it?  Even the obvious candidate Sony don’t win if the game is a flop?
 

 

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32 minutes ago, Waggo said:

Which to my mind at least suggests the £70 price point is damaging to all parties concerned, in that I fail to see who benefits from it?

You could say it benefits anyone who benefits from games being £70, because it says "this is how much games are now, even if it really hurts sales."

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38 minutes ago, Waggo said:


The comparison is Resi will sell a minimum ten times as many copies as Returnal when it launches at the £50 price point.  To be fair it probably would have done at a £70 price point as well, because it is a hugely successful IP that people know, enjoy and buy into.

 

Which just goes to make it all the more ridiculous that Returnal is priced £20 higher.  Whether or not you feel the game or the developers are deserving of the price is kind of irrelevant, because at that price 90% of potential consumers (myself included) were never going to give it a chance.  
 

Now I might pick it up second hand or in a sale somewhere down the line, or it might get lost in all the other games out there competing for my time and money.  Either way however the damage is done in terms of Returnal’s sales figures and whether or not the game is considered to be a commercial success.  
 

Which to my mind at least suggests the £70 price point is damaging to all parties concerned, in that I fail to see who benefits from it?  Even the obvious candidate Sony don’t win if the game is a flop?
 

 

 

 

As you point out a new RE would always sell significant times the number of copies of Returnal, even if Returnal were half or even a third of the current RRP, because people will always buy into the familiar. Which, as well as it being an entirely different genre, is why I thought it an odd comparison.

 

I have no idea how Returnal's sales might have gone had it been released at £50 but would expect to still see it struggle against legit, long established, blockbusters like RE, although it might well sell a few more copies than at the current RRP. It's a tough, weird, game to sell to anyone for sure and I'd wager that there would just be more second hand copies out there had it initially released cheaper. I do find it a tad depressing that there is this belief that it is unacceptable that something novel should be priced higher than something (very) familiar. I don't know where the  '90% of customers'  come from who have ruled it out at an RRP of £70 but would be on board at a hypothetical £50 RRP but would be very, very surprised if the game sold ten times more copies on release day for a £20 reduction. 

 

I'd just like to add that I have never defended the £70 price point per se but was 'happy' to pay it (well, £60) for this one game which, after it has totally consumed the last four days, I have already had better value out of it than any other game i've bought, or had delivered via any sub, this year. It's not something I'll be making a habit of...

 

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6 hours ago, mexos said:

I hate the game. I am so close to uninstalling it. I am only now playing it because I paid £70 for it. I have pissed £70 up the wall and got nothing but misery out of it. 

 

Alternatively, I love it and can't put it down. I'm now shitting all over enemies that absolutely shat all over me in the opening hours. It's a strong GOTY contender for me.

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