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Euro 2020 - Congrats Italy


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I seem to recall Heskey doing a good job for England, especially at the start of his run.  He was just unfortunate enough to be used as the old-style battering ram of a striker as the rest of the world was changing to a slightly more sophisticated approach.  I think that he - like quite a few English players of the last 20 years - were unfortunate to be caught as football changed and would be more suited to now than then.

 

Fuck me, there is a lot of mediocrity getting 40+ caps - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_international_footballers#Players

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I'm going to nominate Andy Cole (remember when people randomly started calling him Andrew Cole towards the end of his career? Why did that happen?). He was a pretty decent club player when he turned out for Man Utd, but awful in an England shirt (kinda the reverse of Paul Pogba for France!). He scored 1 goal in 15 caps... I remember being pretty gaaaaaaah whenever he was picked.

 

Will I be jumped on if I also say Lee Dixon? A great defender in the infamous Arsenal back line under Graham and then Wenger, but I thought he was pretty dodgy for England. From memory his distribution of the ball out from the back wasn't great, and he never seemed confident in an England shirt. 22 caps!

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2 minutes ago, Plissken said:

I seem to recall Heskey doing a good job for England, especially at the start of his run. 

 

Yeah, I quite liked Heskey for England. I'm surprised he scored so few goals, though, so maybe my memory's a bit rubbish!

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4 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Not quite the question but this list of 1 cap wonders is surprisingly long and features some players you've long forgotten got near the team.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_international_footballers_with_one_cap

 

Seth Johnson one of only 2 Seth's with 1 cap (the brilliantly named Seth Plum being the other) and that lead me to find the even better named Bert Bliss. 

 

Sam Matterface would be frantically scribbling with his crayon all day if Bert Bliss was appearing in a commentary match. 

 

In the early 90s, there was some excitement at Burnley securing the loan signing of "Ex-England international Nick Pickering".  And then someone found out that it was a one-off friendly in Australia and clearly the selection criteria was "first 11 to the airport with shinpads and boots".

 

The fanzine of the time made a comment that always stuck with me.  To paraphrase  - "Pickering knocked the ball into the corner and chased after it.  He was so slow that the covering defender had to time to run to the ball, stop, pick up the paper, read the racing form and place a few bets before the Clarets winger got there."

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Andy/Andrew Cole was all about him being taken more seriously and given respect wasn't it ? 

 

There are a lot that jump off that list of capped players, and we'll be all be drawn to our own 'how many' folks. Stuart Downing and Oxlade-Chamberlain on 35 both jump out to me. 

 

Downing for always being shite and Ox-Cham for managing 35 caps and still nobody having a clue what position he actually plays or is effective in. From what I can tell his only real use is as a sub to come on and pad out his own record for appearances/goals getting what I think the Spanish call 'invisible goals' in a dominant win that was already secured before he got on the pitch.

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It's worth bearing in mind with Palmer etc that there have been real feast and famine periods of the talent pool available. 

 

I always found Matthew Upson a bit of a mystery. He was shit pretty much constantly throughout his career but still managed 20ish caps I think. He was in the starting lineup for Germany in 2010 despite West Ham barely scraping staying up that year. 

 

Oh and Jesse Lingard. Ironically this year, the best form he's been in for about 5 years, has coincided with him finally being dropped. 

 

Another vote for Glen Johnson too. 

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5 minutes ago, Oh Danny Boy said:

Aaron Lennon got any impressive amount of caps without really achieving anything. 

 

England have always had a weakness for "fast winger running into the box" without ever asking what they are like when they get there.

 

Actually, and I'm trying desperately to be delicate here and not stray into dodgy territory, a lot of those players have been black.  Walcott, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Lennon.  England managers have certainly had a "type", haven't they?  It's OK for Waddle, Le Tissier and Hoddle to stroll around the pitch but God help John Barnes when he decides to put his foot on the ball.

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Lest we forget, Phil Jones has 27 caps.

 

Downing might just be the correct answer.  He was absolutely rubbish at club level, and yet still managed to get 35 caps, and was completely rubbish at international level too.

 

Carlton Palmer and Geoff Thomas weren't very good, but maybe the most notable thing about them is that they were played together in the centre of midfield, ahead of some much better players.  Thomas wasn't completely terrible - he was damned partly by association with Palmer.  He did however contribute one of the all-time worst misses for England.  For those who don't remember, he was put clean through on goal against France, had all the time in the world, enough time to slow down and consider his options.  The option he took was to put the ball fully 20 yards wide of the goal.

 

Jesse Lingard is a very unfair shout though.  He's always been pretty good for England.

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1 hour ago, Plissken said:

Actually, and I'm trying desperately to be delicate here and not stray into dodgy territory, a lot of those players have been black.  Walcott, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Lennon.  England managers have certainly had a "type", haven't they?  It's OK for Waddle, Le Tissier and Hoddle to stroll around the pitch but God help John Barnes when he decides to put his foot on the ball.

 

There has been a long-standing racism in the English academy system where players' positions and roles are concerned. Young black or biracial players are either placed out wide for pace, up top as a battering ram, in midfield as a destroyer, or at centre half alongside a white player to 'keep them focused'.

 

It's disgusting and Southampton in particular have profited from it over the years, although in their defence they have only made decisions on players that match preconceived ideas at other clubs, to best capitalise on their assets.

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32 minutes ago, Plissken said:

BBC predictions league for Euro 2020.  You know, if you gave me this list of people without the scores and asked me to predict who would be at the bottom, I wouldn't have been too far off.

 

image.thumb.png.734bbc1a7b7eda1ad715174c17dad940.png

 

A reminder Mark Lawrenson once lost a premier league season score predictor to a bot that put "1-1" for every single game.

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1 hour ago, redbloodcel said:

Conversely I find it baffling how Carrick ended up with so few. 

 

This leads me in nicely to the flipside of my earlier question. Which footballer was the most cruelly overlooked and should have earned a lot more caps in England colours? (AKA the 'would Matt Le Tissier have got more caps if he hadn't spent his whole career playing for Southampton when they were shit?' question.)

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2 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

 

This leads me in nicely to the flipside of my earlier question. Which footballer was the most cruelly overlooked and should have earned a lot more caps in England colours?

 

Got to be into Glen Hoddle or Matt le Tiss territory here. Steve Bruce too never got a look in whilst winning stuff at Utd every year.

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6 minutes ago, ckny said:

Joe Hart. 75 caps.

 

End of discussion really.


He was good enough for most of those appearances and there’s wasn’t much depth when it came to English goalkeepers. David James has 53 caps.

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