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Euro 2020 - Congrats Italy


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I thought Ukraine would be more up for that. They were complete dogshit. One half-chance that I remember but my fear of momentum on their part was completely unfounded, butyou know what - we played fucking brilliantly. Four-fucking-nil in a quarters! Holy shit, this is unheard of. We looked amazing.

 

I want to play Italy. I want to play Italy because they're the best team in Europe right now and to win something like this there's no better way to prove you're worthy champions than to beat the best performing team. I also want to play them because we've beaten Italy a few times in competitive games over my lifetime and therefore we can do it again, and I think this only because I am completely refusing to deal with the cognitive dissonance that this is not the Italy of old. Can you imagine the England approach versus Germany, up against the classic Italy? Jesus Christ, nil-nil after ninety minutes, probably lose to an Italian free kick in like the 100th minute. Dour, awful football. Tactically sound, but so deflating.

 

But as good as Italy are, we can beat them. We didn't defend perfectly tonight but we defended like we wanted to be champions, and that can take you an awfully long way.

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6 hours ago, Hanzo the Razor said:

After the Euros they should cut off Harry Kane's heid and stick it in a jar like in Futurama. Preserve that bit because the rest of him has done fuck all but stand there like a Golem waiting for a cross.

I must have been seeing things then, when he scored the first goal with his foot. 
 

As for the ‘you lot’ guff that came later, people were right to question his mobility and contribution as they weren’t to his normal standard. Very few people suggested replacing him, he’s world class. Mbappe had a similarly disappointing start to the tournament and France would never have countenanced dropping him. 
 

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Boss move by the ref to ignore all added time guidance for 30s a sub and goal and blow up exactly on the 90m, nothing was going to happen and it put Ukraine out of their misery. 

 

Rather aptly it bought to mind the Roman poet Ennius 

 

“The victor is not victorious if the vanquished does not consider himself so.”

 

Fair to say from about 10m in Ukraine had that look about them

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23 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Boss move by the ref to ignore all added time guidance for 30s a sub and goal and blow up exactly on the 90m, nothing was going to happen and it put Ukraine out of their misery. 

 

Keep this in mind the next time a game is in the balance, the laws applied correctly, and a load of bores start droning on about Fergie time.

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2 minutes ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

Keep this in mind the next time a game is in the balance, the laws applied correctly, and a load of bores start droning on about Fergie time.

 

Keep what in mind ?

 

He did exactly the right thing last night and it was one of the rare circumstances it was appropriate to do so - some Danes may moan it deprived Harry Maguire of 4-5m to get a yellow and a suspension but both teams were almost camped in their halves looking at each other so even that was unlikely. 

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9 minutes ago, Gotters said:

 

Keep what in mind ?

 

He did exactly the right thing last night and it was one of the rare circumstances it was appropriate to do so - some Danes may moan it deprived Harry Maguire of 4-5m to get a yellow and a suspension but both teams were almost camped in their halves looking at each other so even that was unlikely. 

 

Keep in mind that the whole thing of 'How much?!' when stoppage time is shown, isa myth built on refs not applying laws when a game appears settled. There's nothing so tiresome as people droning that too much time has been added on, when it's misunderstood due to the majority of games in which a side looks comfortable getting blown early.

 

Those added time stipulations are laws of the game. A ref not applying them isn't doing their job.

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2 minutes ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

Keep in mind that the whole thing of 'How much?!' when stoppage time is shown, isa myth built on refs not applying laws when a game appears settled. There's nothing so tiresome as people droning that too much time has been added on, when it's misunderstood due to the majority of games in which a side looks comfortable getting blown early.

 

Those added time stipulations are laws of the game. A ref not applying them isn't doing their job.

 

So you're saying you'd have wanted to see 30s a goal and sub last night, which would have been what 4m alone for subs plus another 1m30s for goals.

 

I know it's the rules (yes laws).

 

When it matters this is what should happen but there was no point in that last night at all.

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19 minutes ago, Gotters said:

 

So you're saying you'd have wanted to see 30s a goal and sub last night, which would have been what 4m alone for subs plus another 1m30s for goals.

 

I know it's the rules (yes laws).

 

When it matters this is what should happen but there was no point in that last night at all.

 

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-7---the-duration-of-the-match

 

It's not about me. Those are the laws and you don't know what might happen in that time. Last night's result wouldn't have been in the balance but you don't know - a player could pull up and miss the next match, which might matter. These are all hurdles to navigate throughout a season/tournament, and you shouldn't be removing them just because you don't think they matter.

 

Imagine if the rule was amended to say, "unless the ref just decides it doesn't matter". Ridiculous.

 

It's a serious gripe of mine, but I'm willing to let it slide if I never hear the words 'Fergie time', when the laws are properly applied. Until then, pull refs in and demote them if necessary.

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It is inarguable that Kane looked well off the pace for the first few games and was clearly carrying a knock. England have also been very sideways and backwards which has been annoying when they are blessed with attacking intent but fair play to Southgate, he's stuck with it and that is why he's England manager and none of us are. The Lister/Rimmer partnership in the middle has been great and as a West Ham fan it has been sad to see the barracking of Rice. Last night was approaching how he plays at club level and I hope there is more to come from those two as they're doing a lot of dirty, unglamorous work. 

I think Shaw has been magnificent and I hope (ho ho ho) that the scummy papers finally get off Sterling's back as he has absolutely performed too.

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Just now, Gotters said:

I imagine Declan Rice is rather happy at the moment when he thinks back to calling Mick McCarthy to inform him he was choosing England over Ireland

 

I like to think he just doesn't think of it.

 

With Rice in the side Ireland might have stood a better chance of being in the tournament but even then I wouldn't expect to get out of the Sweden-Poland-Spain group.

 

Even adding Grealish to the mix would have done little to the prospects. Both have clearly made the better career move.

 

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32 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

 

I like to think he just doesn't think of it.

 

With Rice in the side Ireland might have stood a better chance of being in the tournament but even then I wouldn't expect to get out of the Sweden-Poland-Spain group.

 

Even adding Grealish to the mix would have done little to the prospects. Both have clearly made the better career move.

 

 

Hang on a minute, I'm not sure it's fair to categorise either player's decision to play for England as a "career move".  While it's a bit strange for Gotters to bring up the fact that they chose to play for England over Ireland, both players were born and grew up in England.  They have a single Irish grandparent each.  Neither have ever lived in Ireland to the best of my googling knowledge. The chances are that they were England supporters, consider themselves English, and chose to play for England on that basis.  In fact they've both said as much.

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You're right, it wasn't my intention to trivialise or denigrate the decision - it was poorly worded. I meant that it was the best choice from the perspective of sporting success - their decisions to represent who they represent are personal, individual, and always theirs to make.

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14 hours ago, BitterToad said:

regardless of who played well for Villa for half a season.

I’ll agree with the rest of your post even though I’m one of the people who wanted to see a more attacking formation (though I do think you’re being a bit disingenuous, no one was asking for all out attack, just a bit more use of the players we had). 
 

The bit I’ve quoted is just nonsense though. In the last three years he’s pretty much got us promoted then kept us up singlehanded ( just check the results with him in the team vs not) then had us challenging for Europe until he was injured again last year. 
 

I understand that people have beef with Grealish and that’s fair enough but you can make an argument without making shit up. 

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One thing that struck me last night was when Kane was substituted having scored a brace, Jermaine Jenas tutted and said something to the effect of ‘Not sure that is the right decision, I know I wouldn’t be happy about it’. 
 

Kane to be fair to him did not bat an eyelid, and if he had then I am sure Southgate would have come down on him like a ton of bricks.  The England job was never rocket science as Southgate is proving.  Pick a system and then pick the players to fit into it based on form, fitness and being the best player available for that position and it is amazing what can happen.  
 

Instead what we had for the previous 25 years was massaging of ego’s, shoehorning players into the team as they were too big to be dropped, cliques between players from rival league teams, gambling dens excessive drinking and god knows what else.  I remember David James once saying after he had let in a howler, that he had been up until 3 the night before the match playing PlayStation games!!!!!  For even being dumb enough to come out with such a statement he should never have played for England again.

 

So now we have a sensible modern forward looking manager and team who really look like they can go places, we need to get shut of these relics of past failure as well.  Why continue to reward their failure with handsomely paid careers in punditry?  Jenas, Danny Murphy, Ferdinand the lot of em had their chance and blew it.  Give us knowledgeable, insightful pundits who understand the modern teams and game.  Emma Hayes and the likes is who I want commentating on the big matches in the future not these Clowns.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

While it's a bit strange for Gotters to bring up the fact that they chose to play for England over Ireland, both players were born and grew up in England. 

 

What's strange ? I'm not implying Ireland are shite or anything like that but I'll spell it out for avoidance of doubt.

 

Rice who IIRC had repped Ireland at a junior level and in a couple of senior friendlies decided to change to England after discussions with the FA and Southgate, but at that time was not in any way considered an automatic choice or guaranteed a long or successful England career. There was always a lot of competition for midfield spots and whilst I imagine Southgate spelled out his blueprint for how he wanted the team to play I doubt very much Rice was promised anything, other than being told by Southgate he was in contention and well considered. 

 

In the space of only 2-3y he established himself at West Ham and now as a starter in every match at the Euros and is a key part to England's solidity.

 

I'd be thinking of sliding doors moments and how I'd made a good decision there with how things are turning out for him. 

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2 minutes ago, Waggo said:

One thing that struck me last night was when Kane was substituted having scored a brace, Jermaine Jenas tutted and said something to the effect of ‘Not sure that is the right decision, I know I wouldn’t be happy about it’. 
 

Kane to be fair to him did not bat an eyelid, and if he had then I am sure Southgate would have come down on him like a ton of bricks.  The England job was never rocket science as Southgate is proving.  Pick a system and then pick the players to fit into it based on form, fitness and being the best player available for that position and it is amazing what can happen.

 

One thing that is clear, at least from the outside, is that Southgate has told everyone that they should expect to be on the pitch at some point.  Obviously circumstances often dictate otherwise, but it is most obvious with Sancho getting a start yesterday having played six minutes so far.  The manager is sorting out the workload which is especially important because the players are going to be absolutely knackered after nearly two full seasons without a proper break.

 

I was one of the ones who thought Kane should have lost his starting place and I stand by it at the time.  Though clearly he's what someone else said, a goal vampire and it gives him energy.

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I can’t see Coady or White getting any game time as Stones and Maguire have been very solid, and Mings was too so would seem to be the obvious sub if one is required. I am surprised we haven’t seen anything of Chilwell, as before the tournament I would have guessed he would be picked in front of Shaw. However Shaw has been absolutely immense in the last 3 games so now I wonder if we’ll see Chilwell at all?

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