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Euro 2020 - Congrats Italy


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Yeah, so a rule you should follow is that if something isn’t working out, don’t just keep doing the same thing, try something new. That’s the one mistake we made when Italy were all over us from about 30 minutes onwards. We should have made some changes then to keep them on their toes.

 

But coulda woulda shoulda. In an alternate universe we’d have gone out to Germany long ago, or made some changes and went 3-1 down. What an incredible tournament and final, and what a time to be an England fan.

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28 minutes ago, Timmo said:

Good day fellow football fans

 

This is spot on.

 

They have been immense and they've installed a new hope in my heart for the national side, where previously I'd lost it.

 

We lost on penalties.  We didn't get smashed by a better team, we are rightly up there with the best and will be a force in the World Cup.

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Agreed, sad for the team, but optimistic for the next few tournaments.

 

Thinking about it this morning it hurts less for me than Italia 90 and Euro 96 because last night England were beaten by the better team on the night, and took them all the way. In those games we were arguably the better side, and hit posts in extra time (Waddle in 90 and Anderton in 96) and watched Gazza agonisingly be two inches shorter than he needed to be to score in an open goal.

 

This team are young, and can only get better, and that applies to the manager as well.

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On reflection, that game was there for the taking. Aside from Chiesa, Italy didnt threaten England. Instead of reacting to the tactical changes Machini made at half time he froze and let the players struggle. Southgate managed the ocassion and not the game.

 

The players will bounce back and this team will do well at the World Cup, but Southgate needs to be braver and attack games when they are there to be won.

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38 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

"It's Southgate's fault for who took the penalties" - he didn't draw 5 names out of a hat FFS. They've been practising and practising and went with the data that came out of those practise sessions. It's a shootout. Good players become the 'villains'. It's heartbreaking but it's football. 

 

Yep. He's been on record saying that they've spent a lot of time working on penalties. I doubt there will have been surprises when they were dished out. The occasion, the quality of the other keeper... there are things that you can't practice for. One team, and some players have to be on the losing side in this format, it can't be another way.

 

Also, some comments have been made on the fact that the penalty takers who missed were young and black... it will be hard for them over the coming weeks for sure, but to have a manager who looked at their quality first and believed in them, that's gotta count for something. 

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The main issue I have with England is largely the press and the media tbh.   Some of the stuff being printed on Saturday from the papers was assuming the thing was already won.

 

Couple that with the yob “Engurland” etc culture and it becomes very easy not to want the team to do well.

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I think it's fine to say Southgates decision making failed him last night, his reactions were too slow and were often not the right ones.

 

That doesn't automatically think that I want him gone. I genuinely don't, I want him to continue working with these players.

 

Someone had to lose last night, and it's the hope I had that has left me feeling rather deflated.

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3 minutes ago, wev said:

I think it's fine to say Southgates decision making failed him last night, his reactions were too slow and were often not the right ones.

 

Southgate has always given the impression of learning from his mistakes. This will be no different.

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32 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

 

"Southgate got his tactics wrong and it's his fault" well, for a start he's got his line ups and tactics bang on throughout the tournament. Decisions that were vilified before a ball was kicked (I'm not innocent in this either!). Last night, his choice in using wing backs saw one of them cross to the other to put us 1 up inside 2 minutes. I think the problem we had was maybe scoring too early!! The Italians are masters at defending and made it very difficult for us to get behind them.

 

I agree with most of what you said but he did get the decisions on the night wrong and there is nothing wrong with saying that and he has admitted as much himself. That doesn't mean everyone thinks he's terrible and it doesn't mean everyone doesn't appreciate his efforts throughout the tournament. I think a lot of people can acknowledge we would not have gotten there without him.

 

Moving forwards, he fully deserves to carry on, he has brought the team on leaps and bounds and one thing for me is the unity of the team, something I haven't really seen for a long time on the English stage. I just would really like to see Southgate not persist with his favourites when it is evident it isn't working ^_^ Sterling and Kane were not doing so well at the end of the evening and in fact Sterling looked dead on his feet late on in the game. You could see Italy were well on top second half and it needed Southgate to do something to counter this which he left and left until it was too late and we conceded. He has such great talent on the bench, Grealish could have come on, Sancho could have come on, 2 players who can play on the big stage, Saka is still very young and inexperienced on this sort of field and to ask him to come on and win you a final is a bit much.

 

For me the worst part of this loss and this tournament is how the minority group of English fans have behaved, booing national anthems, the laser pen, breaking into the stadium and now the racism, I think a lot of this show's a lot of the issues we have seen within England over recent years and I fear it will only get worse.

 

There is loads of cause for optimism, we beat Germany, we competed with Italy, we beat a tough Denmark side and we had one of the lowest average ages, we have the likes of Jude Bellingham to come through, a bit more experience for Sancho / Saka and we'll be doing very well for a few years to come :)

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What decisions did he get wrong? We were winning for most of the game. They scored from a lucky set piece scramble that bounced kindly off the post for them. They had maybe one other chance where Pickford had to make a good save. For the majority of the game, Italy were chasing the game because they were behind so of course they would press and have more possession. When they did equalise, that doesn't just go away. We let two goals in all tournament. We came out the groups unbeaten, thumped Germany, hammered Ukraine and knocked out an excellent Denmark team, who again only scored from a set piece wonder strike. We took a team at the peak of their game to 120 minutes and lost on penalties. I'm not sure what else we could have done. 

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I think that the problem Southgate faced was a lack of the right personnel.  Mount was struggling a bit in the midfield and it needed shoring up but the only holding midfielder he had on the bench was Henderson.  Grealish, Sancho, Foden (I know that he wasn't available), Bellingham are all attackers and not particularly defensive minded.  England are a little top heavy that way but them's the breaks right now.  Overall, Rice and Phillips were much better than I thought they would be in their positions and I have no problems with them anchoring the midfield for the next few years.

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23 minutes ago, elmo said:

Always hear this but never understand it.

 

“We hate England and want them to lose because of your media.”

 

Yeah. Trust us. We hate the media over here too.

 

I don’t think the players are big fans either!

 

What don't you understand about it?

 

England fans want them to win despite how the media act, other fans want them to lose because of how the media act.

 

It seems reasonable to me that if you're English then you'll still support and want the team to win despite the BBC thinking you need to know what colour Kane is painting his toenails for the next game.

 

I'd like for coverage at these tournaments to be more inclusive with regards to the teams playing the fixture being covered. Who are the players, what teams do they play for, how have they played the past season etc. Instead of the feeling that BBC/ITV are just trying to get the game out the way before England play again 😕

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It's so weird England being out and the tournament being over.

 

Normally, I console myself with the knowledge that there's still lots of football left that I can just relax and enjoy.

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Semis and final in the last two tournaments. Unknown territory. Can’t say anything more than I’m psyched for what the team has achieved and considering how young the team is there will be more to come, maybe just maybe one of them the fates will align. 
 

I do hate how international tournaments bring out non footballing fans dishing out their ‘expert’ analysis and lots of wannabe  Captain Hindsight’s. 

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23 minutes ago, El Pibe said:

It's so weird England being out and the tournament being over.

 

Normally, I console myself with the knowledge that there's still lots of football left that I can just relax and enjoy.


Ditto. It’s such a bizarre feeling 😆

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8 hours ago, Gabe said:

My final point for tonight (because I really do need to sleep) is that I do think every player will have come off of that pitch and just wonder what might have happened had they tried to be a bit more attacking - and that is a regret which will hurt them for a long time.

 

You know what might have happened? Italy might well have ripped you a new one. They are not passive observers, and they are very good. 

 

England threatened to break Italy's lines all night. They did for the goal. However conceding possession is a risky choice, and I think it was deliberate. Remember everyone saying how well England killed the game against Denmark? 

 

I'm not sure it was the "wrong" choice - it got penalties and had they went well, he's made the right choices. There are other choices that might also have worked but it's hard to know what Italy would have done. 

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