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Euro 2020 - Congrats Italy


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I feel like I'm done with football for awhile now.

 

After how this national team inspired us all, dared us to believe we could actually win after decades of disappointment and cynicism, got us to within 3 kicks of a ball of doing just that and ending the "years of hurt"... and now the crushing disappointment of falling short.

 

I'm proud of the team and how close they brought us. There were some absolutely towering performances in there last night. Declan Rice had the game of his life, the centre backs were incredible (culminating in Harry Maguire burying his penalty in the top corner - what a leader), Pickford was fantastic, the wingbacks combining for the goal. Even the players that missed the penalties I can't criticise. They had the bravery to take them, and against a lesser goalkeeper (and a few inches the other side of the post in Rashford's case) they'd have scored.

 

But yeah, the idea of watching a shite overhyped Premier League "Super Sunday" in a few weeks time, wondering which order that top 4 is going be in this year... no thanks.

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39 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Of course they might and I've already said as much in previous posts - it is about taking a gamble to win it, which he didn't. And even if we had won on penalties, nobody could look at that match and, with a straight face, say that it was part of a plan to perform like that.

 

England had no say in how that game progressed from about the half-hour mark because the barely had the ball, they were passengers for much of it. 

 

As I've said before, none of this takes away from it being an excellent tournament from the team and it is very possible to have hope for the future whilst also recognising and discussing how last night was a "could have been." 

 

I wonder what those saying Southgate didn't get it wrong will say if he himself says that he did?

 

I don't really agree. 

There was some tactical change late in the second half where England had a much better spell after Italy scored and they were also the better side at the end of extra time. 

 

I am trying to think of any really clear cut chances Italy had bar the goal - they had a lot of pressure building but were mostly confined to shots outside the box. England didn't either, but England's game plan was to thread balls through and get in behind on the counter. They did that a number of times but just couldn't get the final pass or position. Partly because the Italian defense are very good. 

 

But it was an even game. England gambled, but the gambled on the system and style that had been successful and they trained with. If they want other options, they are going to have to develop them in the next 18 months. 

 

Southgate will say he got it wrong because he's a good egg and will do whatever it takes to defend his players. I suspect the private analysis will be more nuanced. 

 

I hate defending England! 

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12 hours ago, neoELITE said:

I don't want to get banned but you're all trolling.

 

You were emotional I get it.

 

Mancini IS the better coach. Take solace in that. Look what he's achieved within the game.

 

He exited Man City, while still being a winner, and has learned and learned and learned.

 

Look what he has done with the Italian team.

 

Not trolling at all, you must see he's superior. That is a reason why we lost. These things happen.

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Chiesa was causing alot of problems until Phillips stood on a blade of grass that was a little too close to Chiesas foot and he spent what felt like 20 minutes rolling around on the floor

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3 minutes ago, kensei said:

 

I don't really agree. 

There was some tactical change late in the second half where England had a much better spell after Italy scored and they were also the better side at the end of extra time. 

 

I am trying to think of any really clear cut chances Italy had bar the goal - they had a lot of pressure building but were mostly confined to shots outside the box. England didn't either, but England's game plan was to thread balls through and get in behind on the counter. They did that a number of times but just couldn't get the final pass or position. Partly because the Italian defense are very good. 

 

But it was an even game. England gambled, but the gambled on the system and style that had been successful and they trained with. If they want other options, they are going to have to develop them in the next 18 months. 

 

Southgate will say he got it wrong because he's a good egg and will do whatever it takes to defend his players. I suspect the private analysis will be more nuanced. 

 

I hate defending England! 

We aren't going to agree and that's fine, it's all opinions and whatnot anyway.

 

I will say that though if Harry Kane not having a touch in the box over the course of 120 minutes can't possibly be viewed as any kind of plan working, it just can't. People will say he dropped deep (and he did for a bit in the first half, but was largely anonymous thereafter), but his job is to be in the box to score goals and he didn't even get a touch, let alone a sniff of a shot. Southgate had real issues with Italy's tactical changes - he's already said as much - and I don't think that's because "he's a good egg", it's because the team struggled. 

 

Anyway, it's done now and we all move on. There is real hope for the talent in the squad and coming through, so look to the future and all that. 

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17 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

Give it a rest. That's like saying diving in the box is gamesmanship because a player felt contact. 


Are you disputing it was a clever foul to concede? Half an hour later Chiellini was lifting the trophy. You can say it was cynical absolutely, but it was evidently worth the risk. I called it gamesmanship because he’s used his experience, gauged the situation, the ref’s leniency, the time on the clock all in that moment, and the rest is history. You don’t have to like it, but it’s absolutely true. Nothing like Beckham’s moment of madness, which was the comparison that was being made.

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25 minutes ago, Marlowe said:

I feel like I'm done with football for awhile now.

 

After how this national team inspired us all, dared us to believe we could actually win after decades of disappointment and cynicism, got us to within 3 kicks of a ball of doing just that and ending the "years of hurt"... and now the crushing disappointment of falling short.

 

I'm proud of the team and how close they brought us. There were some absolutely towering performances in there last night. Declan Rice had the game of his life, the centre backs were incredible (culminating in Harry Maguire burying his penalty in the top corner - what a leader), Pickford was fantastic, the wingbacks combining for the goal. Even the players that missed the penalties I can't criticise. They had the bravery to take them, and against a lesser goalkeeper (and a few inches the other side of the post in Rashford's case) they'd have scored.

 

But yeah, the idea of watching a shite overhyped Premier League "Super Sunday" in a few weeks time, wondering which order that top 4 is going be in this year... no thanks.

 

International football fanssssssss

 

join usssssssssssss

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7 minutes ago, Calashnikov said:


Are you disputing it was a clever foul to concede? Half an hour later Chiellini was lifting the trophy. You can say it was cynical absolutely, but it was evidently worth the risk. I called it gamesmanship because he’s used his experience, gauged the situation, the ref’s leniency, the time on the clock all in that moment, and the rest is history. You don’t have to like it, but it’s absolutely true. Nothing like Beckham’s moment of madness, which was the comparison that was being made.

Such reasoning is pointless in football. Philips should have been sent off in the Germany match etc. etc.

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Regarding Chiellini's shirt yank, I hate all these bullshit euphemistic phrases that are thrown around, like 'dark arts' and 'clever gamesmanship'. It's cheating: nasty, blatant, cheating and I don't really know why it seems to have become normalised. There's nothing clever about it and it's not gamesmanship. The fact international footballing bodies don't take such offences more seriously is a joke, especially when you have such compelling evidence these days with HD, slow-mo video footage from half a dozen angles.

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The Chiellini one is debatable. The studs into Grealish's thigh, not so much. That's the one I can't believe VAR didn't have a word in the ref's ear for. That was the straight red for me.

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1 minute ago, Calashnikov said:

I was similarly amazed VAR never scrubbed the Sterling penalty.

The Sterling penalty is in line with the Chielinni challenge. It could have gone either way on both of those decisions. It could have been a red card and it might have been overruled. The studs in the thigh... Not so much. But, ya know, keep trying.

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Ok. The Italian’s boot made contact with the ball in a 50/50 challenge, causing it to freakishly squash, meaning his boot skited off the surface and accidentally into the opponent’s leg. Not a red.

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Not sure what the point is of debating contentious moments with people who just come into this thread on the wind up and have no interest in the football itself.

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21 minutes ago, Chosty said:

Regarding Chiellini's shirt yank, I hate all these bullshit euphemistic phrases that are thrown around, like 'dark arts' and 'clever gamesmanship'. It's cheating: nasty, blatant, cheating and I don't really know why it seems to have become normalised. There's nothing clever about it and it's not gamesmanship. The fact international footballing bodies don't take such offences more seriously is a joke, especially when you have such compelling evidence these days with HD, slow-mo video footage from half a dozen angles.

 

It is gamesmanship. He's used the laws of the game to save a potentially goal scoring attack before it's developed by committing a yellow card foul. Your issue with the laws themselves, not the player.

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The shirt pull was absolutely violent conduct and should have been a straight red. Don't confuse it with an arm around the torso or a gentle tug on the main part of the shirt. Would it have changed the outcome of the match? Maybe, maybe not, we'll never know, obviously.

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Chiellini was going to take him down no matter what. It was the final, he had the pace on him. He grabbed his shirt and pulled him down. His intent was to take him down by pulling his shirt. The fact it went around his neck was pure coincidencei it was a professional foul. Just like when they clip someone's heels who are clear through. ANY player would have done the same exact same in those circs, it's the difference between winning and losing. No ref would ever send someone off for that, it was on the half way line, he had cover, he pulled his shift. The other player got up and played on. 

 

Same as how Kane hit the deck constantly last game. Same as how sterling dived last game and no one cared. This is just the state of the modern game. 

 

The England fans racially abusing the England players are an utter disgrace. Utter neanderthal who should be held accountable for their behaviour. It's funny how they are colour blind when England win and when they lose instantly blame those from other ethic backgrounds. It's appauling. As are those who broke in to Wembley and their behaviour afterwards. It gives England fans a bad name globally and they are an embarrassment to the 99 percent decent English fans.

 

Plus those senior England players who let the kids take penalties is not ideal. Surely they should have took that weight on their shoulders. We're all the Italy penalty takers the older lot?

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7 minutes ago, Wallace said:

 

It is gamesmanship. He's used the laws of the game to save a potentially goal scoring attack before it's developed by committing a yellow card foul. Your issue with the laws themselves, not the player.

I have issues with both, but I appreciate everyone has a different view of what constitutes gamesmanship. 

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I'm not sure I get the debate about Chiellini's foul. 

 

It was a foul, he was booked for it. Did he deserve a straight red? Not according to rules, and if anytime a foul is a clear act of cheating a straight red is issued, matchs would end 5 against 5.

 

I must admit I quite like a beat of cheating in football. One of my favourite player in the 80s was Claudio Gentile, so what do I know...

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53 minutes ago, Calashnikov said:

I was similarly amazed VAR never scrubbed the Sterling penalty.

 

That one is one where VAR only change the on field decision for a "Clear and obvious error". It was a soft penalty but I think I agree it's not clear and obviously a dive and would have to be to overturn it.

 

If VAR had been employed and the ref hadn't given it, neither would VAR.

 

2 minutes ago, Disgraced Toblerone said:

It was a foul, he was booked for it. Did he deserve a straight red? Not according to rules

 

Which rules.  Because it matched the violent conduct rule to the letter.

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"Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball"

 

You don't need to change rules for that foul to be violent conduct, he was pulled, to the ground, by his neck.

 

Do that outside a football pitch you're in the cells.

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As above every match would finish with three players on each team. Everytime they hug and pull each other for a corner, everytime they go on hard to 'let them know your there', when Grealish slid in with his stoods up.

 

Il miss football being on every night iv loved it. I don't have sky so have really missed out over the years. 

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Look he is 87 years old and didn't want to run after the young so and so. 

 

Would you be calling Sir Captain Rear Admiral Second Major Tom Moore a cheat?

 

For what it is worth though. I think it is one of many rules that need a comprehensive revaluation. The game has moved on from when most were introduced, such as the offside law.

 

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5 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Do that outside a football pitch you're in the cells.

Well, there are many things that you can do on a football pitch and not outside. Or on any pitch. Or in your bedroom. 

 

Different rules for different places.

 

But let's agree to disagree, it's not that important.

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Due to being my birthday , we were in the center of town and had booked a pub on Trafalgar Square to watch the game. Which was really good crack, bearing in mind distancing etc.

 

But we took a wander through Leicester square, and I've never seen a bigger bunch of idiots ever. And I used to follow England away for a long time.  But the Police were instructed not to get involved in case it escalated. I asked a policewoman, that if I get pissed up next weekend, jump up on a traffic light with a cone on my head then then start sniffing bugle like a hoover in plain view, would I be arrested? She just rolled her eyes and agreed. And there you have it. I imagine same at the stadium until it became really out of control. Pure mob rule. I'm hoping there is judicious use of all the CCTV, and some 4 o'clock knocks like the old days, to maybe change things. 

 

The Harry Maguire song tickled me however. 

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