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Euro 2020 - Congrats Italy


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40 minutes ago, Gotters said:

The hardest part for Southgate and co in the next week is to get the players to believe this as we're all just raised with an expectation that we'll lose on pens to them or in a dramatic way.

 

Nah. The hardest part for Southgate is to take the handbrake off himself. Sooner or later he needs to give his players a chance to do what they're best at. I'd say the squad is the most progressive in the tournament, and sooner or later needs to be allowed to play fully to its strengths. Always a gamble, but in this instance one worth taking.

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4 minutes ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

Nah. The hardest part for Southgate is to take the handbrake off himself. Sooner or later he needs to give his players a chance to do what they're best at. I'd say the squad is the most progressive in the tournament, and sooner or later needs to be allowed to play fully to its strengths. Always a gamble, but in this instance one worth taking.

 

I wouldn't underestimate the mental aspect of a match like this even in a team sport.

 

Even an Ossie Ardiles xmas tree formation with all our star attackers playing will be hamstrung if they all go out there expecting to lose as it's just what happens when England play Germany in tournaments.

 

They need to believe in the gameplan and believe its a game they can win. you see time and time again how teams get into bad runs in the league against other teams or lose to a poor Liverpool or City performance on the day as just go out expecting to lose. 

 

I don't think our team will all expect to lose but history will be something they are aware of and I'm sure the coaches will be working on that aspect, not just who is picking up who on corners.

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55 minutes ago, Gotters said:

If you take it on the 2 likely starting XI's and subs then England, at home, have no reason to be considered underdogs against this current Germany team on current form.

 

The hardest part for Southgate and co in the next week is to get the players to believe this as we're all just raised with an expectation that we'll lose on pens to them or in a dramatic way. Even though most of these guys haven't experienced that first hand they'll have grown up watching Peter Shilton fall into his net and all the other games.

 

They should be made to watch the highlights on repeat loop of Emile Heskey destroying them. 

 

The problem is Southgate is the manager, and he knows all about losing to Germany in crucial games ;) 

 

But agreed, attitude is probably significant at this stage.  They'll have to all forget about the World Cup 2010 game and take them on as furiously as they all usually do for their club teams.

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Just now, Fitzcarraldo said:

Our media's whipping up of the England-Germany 'rivalry' always makes me laugh. Germans probably don't even remember beating us in the Euro '96 semi-final. Too busy remembering the final, which they won.

It's one of those one-sided rivalries from a team with a chip on their shoulder.

 

Quote

“Against England it’s going to be a totally different match,” Löw said. “They play at home, they want to attack, it’s going to be a more open match than it was tonight. We need to improve on things, we are aware of that. We need to be careful, especially at set pieces. We can’t repeat the same mistakes again, we need to do things better. But the match will be a different one and we’re looking forward to it.”

Come on Jogi, at least watch the matches!

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12 minutes ago, artz said:

It's one of those one-sided rivalries from a team with a chip on their shoulder.

I think this is England's version of Scotlands England if that makes sense. And various other versions around the country/World.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

It's a different bunch of lads, and they don't care much for history. Southgate might though, he was there after all, and he's going to set the approach.

 

caring for it is one thing, it subconsciously seeping into your footballing 'knowledge' as you grow up is another. 

 

I know you get the odd player who has never watched an old match and doesn't know who won the world cup last time round but most of them are kids who grow up with the game, grow up watching the coverage with montages set to appropriate music etc They'll all be aware of the history. 

 

Southgate could well be the one most traumatised by it and his whole approach to tournament football could well be coloured by that. Mentally I hope the same psychologists he gets working with the players are talking with him too, as he needs to believe it too.

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If they aren't aware to some extent now, which is doubtful, they soon will be. 

 

As @Gotters says Southgate angle will be built up surely? And it could be a big redemption for him personally after what must have been an awful experience. He still got treated better than Beckham did after the Argentina game though.

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4 minutes ago, Plissken said:

It's always seemed to me that Southgate took it in his stride and was over it fairly quickly.

 

what makes you think that ?

 

 

footballer tv ads used to be so much better, the Brazilians in the airport, the helicopter heist from the museum with the robots, now it's Raheem Sterling moodily having a shave or Henderson using deodorant.

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A team can be managed to believe they can win every game, even if their players aren't as good on paper. That doesn't necessarily mean playing all out attack all the time.

 

I think we have a confident group of players who will go out thinking they can win. 

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Oddly not really discussed over here (I guess it goes against the England v Germany narrative)... From a German perspective, their biggest rivals are Holland, with the Dutch feeling exactly the same way.

 

Along with the whole war sentiment,  matches between the two have seen on-pitch fistfights, Ronald Koeman wiping his arse with a German shirt, Rikaard gobbing on Voller, and quotable comments galore including "I hate them, they murdered my whole family", and "We are fooled again" - uttered by a commentator when Holland were knocked out of the 74 world cup when favourites. It's become a Dutch catchphrase, much like 'they think it's all over'.

 

That's not to say the Germans don't see *any* rivalry with us, but it's 4th or 5th on the list for them, similar to how Man U has a rivalry with Leeds, after City, Liverpool, Arsenal, etc.

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1 hour ago, artz said:

I've been looking around the team ELO ratings, and interestingly they don't always agree between different sites (maybe because they give matches different importance ratings). Anyway, I've done what any lazy arse would do and gone for the one with the best UI.

As expected, Austria (18%) versus Italy (82%) is the most one-sided.

Denmark (59%) versus Wales (41%) the most even (I think Wales look under-valued here).

Might it be one of the best times for England (69%) against Germany (31%)? Seems a bit generous to England to me.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Gotters said:

I know you get the odd player who has never watched an old match and doesn't know who won the world cup last time round but most of them are kids who grow up with the game, grow up watching the coverage with montages set to appropriate music etc They'll all be aware of the history.

 

Southgate could well be the one most traumatised by it and his whole approach to tournament football could well be coloured by that. Mentally I hope the same psychologists he gets working with the players are talking with him too, as he needs to believe it too.

 

Fair enough. I've worked with about half of the lads in this squad and they don't seem the sort to be unduly bothered by any history beyond making their own, and I don't mean that as them being arrogant. Just generally very grounded.

 

I really would worry about Southgate though. I think Colombia did a lot of good for him in the last World Cup, but still feel that, if it's shit or bust and there's a gamble to be had, he might not make the choice best suited to the abilities of those at his disposal.

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7 minutes ago, GamesGamesGames said:

Can't begin to imagine what Brexit Britain will do with this fixture, true. Classy stuff.

 

My biggest disappointment so far is that Tyrone hasn't come up with the winning goal in any game, so we haven't had a thousand 'Mings the Merciless' headlines. 

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14 minutes ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

Fair enough. I've worked with about half of the lads in this squad and they don't seem the sort to be unduly bothered by any history beyond making their own, and I don't mean that as them being arrogant. Just generally very grounded.

 

I really would worry about Southgate though. I think Colombia did a lot of good for him in the last World Cup, but still feel that, if it's shit or bust and there's a gamble to be had, he might not make the choice best suited to the abilities of those at his disposal.

 

Cool, are you the guy who was in TV in the middle east, I lose track of who is who over time.

 

Seems a long gap with a week break between games so there will be a lot of vegetables getting superimposed on heads and pictures of bombers to publish before we get to 5pm Tuesday. 

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7 minutes ago, Gotters said:

 

Cool, are you the guy who was in TV in the middle east, I lose track of who is who over time.

 

Seems a long gap with a week break between games so there will be a lot of vegetables getting superimposed on heads and pictures of bombers to publish before we get to 5pm Tuesday. 

 

No, that'll be someone else.

 

I'm really not fussed with international football, and as long as the United lads come back fit then that'll do me. I reckon five days of UK tabloids will have me going full Oktoberfest by next week though.

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Why do people think Southgate has been traumatised by '96 and would need to speak to the psychologists working with the team? 

 

Even at the time I seem to recall he just accepted it had happened and got on with things (obviously doing the pizza hut advert helped with the public perception too.)

 

His story doesn't feel anywhere near the level of, say, Stuart Pearce needing to out away his penalty, or Beckham's post Argentina redemption. I think he'll be fine and won't have any old scars at the back of his mind. I'm sure the press will play in it though, gives them something to write about. 

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4 hours ago, alex3d said:

Feel sorry for Hungary's players. They played a fantastic match and a very good tournament. Shame that France and Portugal decided to have a nice kick about at the park in the end.


They are probably feeling bummed right now but there’s no way that they don’t come out of this tournament as absolute heroes to Hungarian kids.  They got put in the group of death and scared the shit out of everybody, plus they had the feel good factor of being a host nation.  Obviously they aren’t going to get back to the glory years of the 1950s any time soon but you do wonder if this will be the catalyst for a resurgence in the fortunes of the national team.  

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3 hours ago, artz said:

I've been looking around the team ELO ratings, and interestingly they don't always agree between different sites (maybe because they give matches different importance ratings). Anyway, I've done what any lazy arse would do and gone for the one with the best UI.

As expected, Austria (18%) versus Italy (82%) is the most one-sided.

Denmark (59%) versus Wales (41%) the most even (I think Wales look under-valued here).

Might it be one of the best times for England (69%) against Germany (31%)? Seems a bit generous to England to me.

 

image.png.e8b9971b900a8a0f5b4e0080e9ce7bdf.png

 

And I thought xG was a load of shit.

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49 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

 

My biggest disappointment so far is that Tyrone hasn't come up with the winning goal in any game, so we haven't had a thousand 'Mings the Merciless' headlines. 

I think that's more likely to be after he stamps on someone's face.

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I have to say that last night's football was SO exciting. Definitely the most thrilling period of football I've seen for a while, what with the group order changing every few minutes and drama in both games. These Euros are great despite the format!

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4 hours ago, alex3d said:

Feel sorry for Hungary's players. They played a fantastic match and a very good tournament. Shame that France and Portugal decided to have a nice kick about at the park in the end.

 

The France v Portugal game had absolutely no bearing on Hungary's progression chances. It was simple for them - beat Germany and they'd be through.

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Oh yeah, BTW it's not "Holland", it's "Netherlands".  It's only weirdo ITV who keeps on banging on about "Holland".

 

  

1 hour ago, Gabe said:

Why do people think Southgate has been traumatised by '96 and would need to speak to the psychologists working with the team? 

 

Even at the time I seem to recall he just accepted it had happened and got on with things (obviously doing the pizza hut advert helped with the public perception too.)

 

His story doesn't feel anywhere near the level of, say, Stuart Pearce needing to out away his penalty, or Beckham's post Argentina redemption. I think he'll be fine and won't have any old scars at the back of his mind. I'm sure the press will play in it though, gives them something to write about. 

 

Yeah that time passed decades ago.  I'd think that the 2010 game would have had more of an effect on the current England players.

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Which would be a good thing.  This is not a good German team by most standards, let alone previous German sides and England should consider themselves favourites.  And they should play like they are the favourites.

 

Unfortunately our shitty tabloids will build it up like they are playing against Rummenigge, Muller, Mattheus and all that, let alone the inevitable war bullshit and a round of 16 game as revenge for the last century and a bit of perceived slights.

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15 hours ago, Azrael said:

Apart from that whole rape thing, but tbf he paid her to be quiet about it all so really she's in the wrong for going back on that deal and mentioning it. 

 

Just to clarify: this is a joke, right? You don't actually think this?

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