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Metroid: Dread - October 8th


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Everyone who is interested in Metroid or 2D translations of 3D games should play Other M. There’s a lot of absolute shit in there, but the way it moves the game in to 3D, in terms of minute to minute gameplay, is spotless. It’s really sad that we’ll never get another game that uses that well.

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Isn't the real issue that Metroid just doesn't sell very well so Nintendo experiment with every release to try and make it more popular. Those things you loved in Super, Fusion and Zero Mission didn't make it sell to a degree that had Nintendo rushing to make a sequel so they kept experimenting until they found something they thought might work. the same way Fire Emblem Awakening was the last throw of the dice before that series was buried in the same draw as F-Zero. 

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In some ways yes, but there's a lot to it once you get a game series that has brand recognition, imo. Essentially though, all games want to sell very well so there's nothing new there. Imo, making the Metroid game like some here would like, wouldn't sell well according to Nintendo's expectations. And that's the key, to THEIR expectations given their financial outlay. Many other developers and publishers would be overjoyed with the sales and praise that a hardcore Metroid would bring in. But Nintendo need big sales to fuel their brand. On this point, look at the Amazon sales charts currently, Dread is topping them all.

 

Btw, I'm not saying I agree with Nintendo's stance. I've long advocated for a small, experienced, passionate 7-10 person team on a small budget, be given an IP like Metroid. If they were I guarantee you'd get the Metroid of your dreams.

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24 minutes ago, ryodi said:

Isn't the real issue that Metroid just doesn't sell very well so Nintendo experiment with every release to try and make it more popular. Those things you loved in Super, Fusion and Zero Mission didn't make it sell to a degree that had Nintendo rushing to make a sequel so they kept experimenting until they found something they thought might work. the same way Fire Emblem Awakening was the last throw of the dice before that series was buried in the same draw as F-Zero. 

 

Nintendo make smaller games all the time. We've a new Warioware coming, for example. 

 

I think it's more Nintendo would like Metroid to be a Zelda level seller, and thus both has to try new things and bow to market expectations a bit more. 

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But unless I'm mistaken Metroid specifically doesn't sell well in Japan whereas Wareware has had solid sales since the GBA game was first released. I mean we're all shocked this is getting released at all when we all thought Prime 4 would be the next Metroid game coming out. I'm excited for this and have preordered it but I can understand why some people would be disappointed when it comes out. 

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54 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Everyone who is interested in Metroid or 2D translations of 3D games should play Other M. There’s a lot of absolute shit in there, but the way it moves the game in to 3D, in terms of minute to minute gameplay, is spotless. It’s really sad that we’ll never get another game that uses that well.

 

cringey cut-scenes, terrible voice acting and unfathomable story aside, I really enjoyed Other M.  The move seamless move from 2D to 3D was great.  

 

whispers... It's the only Metroid game I've properly 100%ed.  Worth doing as well for the bonus ending.

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2 hours ago, Fallows said:

 

There's no such thing as 'Metroidvania', just a long list of games that try to copy Metroid.

 

It's not really true. The differing factor between Metroid and Castlevania is your primary weapon. If your primary weapon is a gun then it's trying to copy Metroid. Primary weapon is something you swing (a whip, sword, an arm etc) then it's trying to copy Castlevania. The primary weapon leads to two very different types of game.

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9 minutes ago, the_debaser said:

Has there ever been a really good castlevania game? I mean to the level of a good metroid? I’ve always found them pretty dull. 

 

Castlevania used to be a straightforward (literally) action game until Symphony of the Night after they adopted the backtracking/unlocking game design found in Metroid.

 

SotN is the best Metroid-like. Super Castlevania IV is the best traditional Castlevania. They're both fucking stunning games and I strongly suggest you try your best to dig into them.

 

I was late to SotN (Christmas 2009) but it immediately smashed its way into my top-20.

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3 minutes ago, the_debaser said:

Has there ever been a really good castlevania game? I mean to the level of a good metroid? I’ve always found them pretty dull. 

 

Symphony of the Night is the best game ever. The GBA and DS games are all great too.

 

I don't like games where your primary weapon is a gun, so clearly I'm biased and think them far superior to Metroid.

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2 minutes ago, gossi the dog said:

 

Symphony of the Night is the best game ever. The GBA and DS games are all great too.

 

I don't like games where your primary weapon is a gun, so clearly I'm biased and think them far superior to Metroid.

 

*laughs in Soma*

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14 minutes ago, gossi the dog said:

 

It's not really true. The differing factor between Metroid and Castlevania is your primary weapon. If your primary weapon is a gun then it's trying to copy Metroid. Primary weapon is something you swing (a whip, sword, an arm etc) then it's trying to copy Castlevania. The primary weapon leads to two very different types of game.


I think the RPG-lite elements, like EXP points and equipment stats etc tilt things towards the Vania side of Metroidvania as well.

 

I personally like the term Metroidvania :bye: 

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3 minutes ago, Dig Dug said:

Not quite true.

The difference is system and progression.

 

Igarashi Castlevania is designed as an RPG. While it does contain several power-up based roadblocks like Metroid the main tools for unlocking progress are normally keys, macguffins and quest conditions.

 

I think world progression method and openness are the main design elements which determine how “Metroid” a game is. Hence why I made this as a joke a while back.

 

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That’s cute, but in MGS Snake mostly progresses by finding a key item that lets him advance past a boss or area.

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11 minutes ago, Alex W. said:


That’s cute, but in MGS Snake mostly progresses by finding a key item that lets him advance past a boss or area.

Admittedly I did overlook the use of weapons as progression keys when I made that two years ago. It is actually a true neutral.

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In 2022: we’ll be as far away from the release of Zero Mission as it was to the release of the original game (1986 - 2004 - 2022). I’d be happy with an Advance Wars style update of both GBA games on the Switch happening at some point.

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One positive I'm getting from the Treehouse demos is that everytime the player enters the communication room with Adam, the Treehouse people emphasize that he doesn't direct your play and that the player themselves decides where they want to go. Obviously there's still a linear design in the map that directs you anyways, but it's nioce they've taken to heart not just some criticisms of Samus Returns but even Other M and Fusion.

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5 hours ago, Talvalin said:

Possibly not the thread for it, but why didn't people like Shadow Complex?

 

I had two real problems with it: that it had all the personality of a brick (when playing an Exile-alike need to find the world interesting enough to want to explore it), and that it was a spin-off of a series written by a militant homophobe.

 

But yeah, even without the Orson Scott Card link, it was scuppered for me by the setting: all the explore-em-ups I've ever loved have nailed their atmosphere; Exile, Super Metroid, SOTN, Knytt, Axiom Verge and Hollow Knight all succeed in large part thanks to their carefully considered mood and aesthetic.

 

Shadow Complex's mood and aesthetic was "grey".

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22 hours ago, Darhkwing said:

Art style does look a little rough. Hopefully they get it looking somewhat better.


It’s release is in 4 months time. I think if you’re hoping for any changes to the visuals at this stage you might want to prepare for some disappointment.

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1 hour ago, Strafe said:


It’s release is in 4 months time. I think if you’re hoping for any changes to the visuals at this stage you might want to prepare for some disappointment.

 

I don't mean a full facelift. Just smooth out some of the rough edges. I don't expect it to change that much.

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Tangent: I thought of booting up Shadow Complex Remastered to look into the graphics comparison a bit, but... it's gone from the PS Store? I played it briefly last year after it got a PS5 compatible update, but now it doesn't show up in my purchases and it's "not available for purchase" on the web Store.

 

[edit] It’s been removed from the Store but should pop up in your library (if bought previously) on your console only. You can’t initiate the download from the app or website. 

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