Jump to content
IGNORED

Football Thread 2021/2022


Plissken
 Share

Recommended Posts

This Levante Real game is crackers.  Vinicius Jr just scored a filthy goal...Levante keeper just sent off for handling the ball on nearly the bloody halfway line.  🙃  6 mins to go...

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=la+liga&rlz=1C1ONGR_en-GBGB961GB961&oq=la+liga&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i131i433i512j0i20i263i433i512j0i131i433i512j0i131i433j46i131i433i512j0i131i433i512j0i512l2j0i271.918j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11rgz6lsrq;2;/m/09gqx;dt;fp;1;;

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arsenal look wretched. What even are they. They appear to have zero identity.

 

Despite the lack of investment surely Arteta is not on top of things here? It all seems really boring.

Like the worse ever Wenger performances on Prozac.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Hamus said:

Arsenal look wretched. What even are they. They appear to have zero identity.

 

Despite the lack of investment surely Arteta is not on top of things here? It all seems really boring.

Like the worse ever Wenger performances on Prozac.

Lack of investment? £129m so far this Summer. 

 

Also, I'm not sure how Arteta is supposed to be on top of a COVID outbreak. I'm no Arsenal fan but a 2-0 loss to an extremely strong Chelsea team, with a much improved second half showing, is about as good as could be expected in the circumstances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Stopharage said:

Lack of investment? £129m so far this Summer. 

 

Also, I'm not sure how Arteta is supposed to be on top of a COVID outbreak. I'm no Arsenal fan but a 2-0 loss to an extremely strong Chelsea team, with a much improved second half showing, is about as good as could be expected in the circumstances.

 

I saw something - probably when skimming the Graun - which said something I agree with. The club sees itself as a top four club, the fans and media treat them as a top four club but they haven't been a top four club for quite some time. It feels like several seasons have been spent repeatedly putting sticking plasters on. What really needs to happen is someone turns round and says "right, this is where we are going to be in three seasons time and this is how we're getting there and it's going to be painful" while reconfiguring the team from top to bottom.  The problem is that requires buy-in from the more vocal section of the fandom and I just don't see that happening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ground, attendance, history and budget Arsenal remain a big club, we've even lobbed an occasional FA Cup in to keep up that pretence - as far as the league goes though we've been in decline for years, almost decades now.

 

That perception seems to have taken a while to stick with other teams though but I think finally everybody is realising that Arsenal's transformation into mid table mediocrity is complete, and we're very much in the mould now of an Everton or pre last season West Ham. An expensively assembled group of overpaid players that will occasionally turn it on when they feel like it but who can be turned over home or away with a bit of application and a solid if unspectacular gameplan, we're a soft touch.

 

I think Arteta gets that and is trying to move out the old lags who won't listen and caused friction and go for a younger group who in theory should. I'm not aware of many Arsenal fans expecting a title or top 4 tilt this season but they'll need to start to show some sort of progress pretty quickly after losing to City on Saturday or things will get quite unpleasant at home.

 

Once we're past the Covid outbreak the group of players looks promising, but that has to start showing that on the pitch as we've now bought multiple back fours and keepers and still keep getting undone with comedy panic defending - which very much makes it a failing of coaching or just scouting and buying players who are no better than what we had (or both). 

 

Maybe I should buy some socios coins to get more say in how we go about fixing things. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Projects in football are an absolute myth by and large. Tuchel takes the same group of players Lampard couldn’t get a tune out of and immediately wins the European Cup. Managers who need a squad revamp and the patience of the fans whilst they spend 3 years tinkering about are an extinct breed in modern football. It’s all about a team of consultants who can come in and get the best out of what’s there. Arsenal fans get stick because of drongos like AFTV, but no club has fans who’ll watch 18 months of dreadful football with no discernible style of play and think let’s give this bloke another two years and see what he does. We’ve bought really poorly, but have owners who thought the bloke who handed out the bibs for Pep was ready to manage one of the biggest clubs on earth. They just haven’t a clue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lampard did exactly what anyone who wasn't paid to watch / commentate on football knew - he wasn't ever going to get a tune out of them.  He might some day in the future and he was hamstrung by circumstances a bit, but he was walking into a dressing room that knew he was promoted way over his head.  Tuchel's record commanded respect from the moment even before he set foot on the training pitch.

 

Right now, the 8th longest serving PL manager is Ralph Hassenhuttl at 2 1/2 years.  One could argue that he is a bit lucky to survive two 9-0s but I like him and I think that he has done a decent job.  The fourth-eighth are Farke, Bielsa, Smith and Frank, all of whom have a promotion (or two) to bank on.

 

Alex Ferguson got five years before he got things to click at one of the biggest clubs in the country suffering a very long drought.  The only current PL managers to last longer than that five years are Guardiola (5y 2m), Klopp (5y 10m) and Dyche (8y 10m).

 

It's not about sticking with a bloke that's not working - it's about taking the right bloke on in the first place.  What about Lampard said he was ready for Chelsea?  What about Arteta said he was ready to take on Arsenal especially in their current state?  What was it about Mourinho that said he was right for Spurs?

 

A question not just to be levelled at Arsenal but probably Spurs and Everton - where do you want to be in three to five years? And what about your current situation is saying that you will be there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On budget and wage bill Arsenal are a team that should be in with a shout for the last CL spot or two, and definitely making the EL every season. Since the latter years of Wenger we've massively underperformed our spending and have paid huge fees and given huge wages to flops, off field we're a shambles. 

 

The league table usually maps quite neatly to the wage bills of clubs so with Chelsea, Utd & City you have to rely on one of them messing up somewhat and underperforming to do any better than that.

 

Then you've got the overall management structure to consider, those teams that appear well run and can punch above their budget. Liverpool have done this brilliantly over the last few years but now are on the verge of needing to prove it again as that team starts to age and needs refreshing a little in the coming years. Leicester also do really well above their budget which is a combo of off field organisation and Rodgers being a great match. Spurs over performed under Poch with that CL final but again need to prove they have the brains in place to spend their money wisely and not underperform like last season. 

 

At present Arsenal are kidding themselves that we're smart off the pitch and can turn that into over performance on it - this is just not true so far and we're doing the opposite and spending money with all the astuteness of the Dildo Brothers, Moshiri or Peter Ridsdale at Leeds.

 

I honestly believe our place in the order of things at a par level is competing for 4th spot with an occasional run in a cup - more than that requires others to fail and us to be a hell of a lot smarter than we clearly are. Where we are is wasting buckets of money and telling ourselves how clever Edu & Arteta are. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that all comes down to having a group at the top who know about football to make these decisions. Actually, people who know about English football. Arsenal just haven't had that, and when we tried to we ended up with a motley crew of crooks and nobodies who ran us into the ground. The ownership are detached and clueless. It was the right thing to move on Wenger and Emery, but they did both far too late and wasted about 3 full seasons by procrastinating. It was right we sacked Arteta in November last year, but again sat on our hands and then got humiliated by our old manager in the cup and will likely see this season slip out of view too. 

 

We've clearly tried to recruit young this summer and become a bit more future proof if we want to change managers down the road, which is progress I guess. You feel for Arteta a bit as he's been central to the plan to plant trees under the shade of which he will surely never sit, but that's life I guess. 

 

As for fan patience, it's a funny thing as with us we were told to "get excited", meaning we were going to buy the best players and win the Champions League. Then it was a top 4 project. Now it's let's consolidate 8th and work from there, so the fall has been so fast and pronounced. I reckon fans will stick with a team if you're hard to beat, fun to watch or get results. If you can do all three you're laughing, but all the teams knocking around the middle can't do any of these consistently which is why fans get fed up and they chop and change. I guess the solution to getting out of that cycle is falling into the arms of someone like Klopp who'll make everything alright again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gotters said:

On budget and wage bill Arsenal are a team that should be in with a shout for the last CL spot or two, and definitely making the EL every season. Since the latter years of Wenger we've massively underperformed our spending and have paid huge fees and given huge wages to flops, off field we're a shambles. 

 

The league table usually maps quite neatly to the wage bills of clubs so with Chelsea, Utd & City you have to rely on one of them messing up somewhat and underperforming to do any better than that.

 

Then you've got the overall management structure to consider, those teams that appear well run and can punch above their budget. Liverpool have done this brilliantly over the last few years but now are on the verge of needing to prove it again as that team starts to age and needs refreshing a little in the coming years. Leicester also do really well above their budget which is a combo of off field organisation and Rodgers being a great match. Spurs over performed under Poch with that CL final but again need to prove they have the brains in place to spend their money wisely and not underperform like last season. 

 

At present Arsenal are kidding themselves that we're smart off the pitch and can turn that into over performance on it - this is just not true so far and we're doing the opposite and spending money with all the astuteness of the Dildo Brothers, Moshiri or Peter Ridsdale at Leeds.

 

I honestly believe our place in the order of things at a par level is competing for 4th spot with an occasional run in a cup - more than that requires others to fail and us to be a hell of a lot smarter than we clearly are. Where we are is wasting buckets of money and telling ourselves how clever Edu & Arteta are. 

The season that Leicester won, is the one in recent times that felt like Arsenal missed out on.  Will probably not have a better chance than that for the title unles something really unexpected happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It doesn’t take much to turn things around. I thought 13/14 was as close as Liverpool were ever going to get for a long time especially with Liverpool nowhere and Chelsea walking away with it the following season. Then Pep arrives at City and Liverpool fail to win it again due to a Kompany worldie and expect the same thing to happen again the following season.


Arsenal are a big club in London with a modern stadium, Id be very surprised if something unexpected doesn’t happen to get them. Maybe Arsenal will do a Chelsea and pick opposite manager styles, so when they get rid of Arteta getting a hard taskmaster manager in instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Stopharage said:

Also, I'm not sure how Arteta is supposed to be on top of a COVID outbreak. I'm no Arsenal fan but a 2-0 loss to an extremely strong Chelsea team, with a much improved second half showing, is about as good as could be expected in the circumstances.

What about a 2-0 loss to Brentford, what was the excuse there? Arsenal shouldn't be losing that match, no matter the emotion surrounding it.

 

2 hours ago, Gotters said:

On budget and wage bill Arsenal are a team that should be in with a shout for the last CL spot or two, and definitely making the EL every season.

 

How much of that wage bill is inflated by poor players though (oh hi Mr Willian, I didn't see you come in?) I can't imagine too many clubs would be paying Pepe or Lacazette the sort of wages Arsenal do, so it skews that correlation somewhat.

 

I mean, Arsenal are miles and miles away from the Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Chelsea and Leicester right now so they fall into that chasing pack along with the likes of Tottenham, West Ham, Everton, Leeds, perhaps even Villa etc. A European place should be a realistic goal but I don't think they particularly stand out within that crowd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Gabe said:

How much of that wage bill is inflated by poor players though (oh hi Mr Willian, I didn't see you come in?) I can't imagine too many clubs would be paying Pepe or Lacazette the sort of wages Arsenal do, so it skews that correlation somewhat.


thats then back to idiots running the club.

 

the general point stands that the total wage bill rather than transfer fees are usually a pretty good indicator of league performance, and Arsenal have a huge wage bill and massively under perform it.

 

most seasons the wage bill table looks a lot like the league one in most top leagues

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Gabe said:

How much of that wage bill is inflated by poor players though (oh hi Mr Willian, I didn't see you come in?) I can't imagine too many clubs would be paying Pepe or Lacazette the sort of wages Arsenal do, so it skews that correlation somewhat.

 

The problem is that the club are still shopping for Ferraris when they need a Mondeo.  It seems like every season Arsenal are signing / extending the contract of someone they really ought not to be doing simply to kid themselves in thinking that they are still competing.  I mean, Aubameyang is a wonderful player but was throwing a new contract last year at him what the club needs?  He's 32, he's a "winning now" player not the future.  It's easy to point to Willian, Ozil and Luiz as shit decisions, but Aubameyang seems to me that the sort of ruthless decision that someone really needed to make in order to start changing things.  And that's before Arsenal always seem to be overpaying when the only competition is themselves.

 

The Leicester year always felt that the year Spurs blew it, but that may be me misremembering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Plissken said:

 

The Leicester year always felt that the year Spurs blew it, but that may be me misremembering.


The beginning of that season I had Arsenal as favourites. They definitely had the best squad IMO but were never really in it, their second place finish was due to Spurs trailing off after they lost out on first, and hugely flattered them. Spurs definitely should have pushed Leicester closer and may even be the best chance they’ll ever have in a long time but that’s not to take away from Leicester who were remarkably consistent and who somehow managed to get the likes of Huth playing on Super Saiyan mode for the whole season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but there wasn't the usual two-ish horse race.  They were certainly deserving winners, but they kept on going while everyone around seemed to take turns getting into second place and then shooting themselves in the foot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With 81 points, Leicester won with the third lowest tally since the turn of the century - two Manchester United 80-point hauls being the others.

 

Don't take that as a dismissal of the achievement - they still obtained more points than United did in their treble-winning season, and won the league by ten points. But given the tallies posted by title winning teams in the years preceding and since, and the fact that Leicester came out of nowhere to win it, there'll be a number of sides kicking themselves for not quite managing a proper challenge.

 

Not Arsenal though - they haven't broken 80 points since 2008.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No matter how often the media love to claim Spurs threw away a chance of winning their first Premier League when Leicester won it, the truth is they were playing catch up all season and it was Arsenal who were top at the start of 2015 with Spurs back in 4th.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Stopharage said:

Perez deservedly sent off. Only upside is we’ll be better off without him for 3 games. 
 

This is going to be a painful next 50 minutes. West Ham outclassing us before that and beat us in both games last season. 

 

I feel a bit sorry for Perez in that he was stumbling, but fucking hell mate, don't try and break my favourite players ankle on the way down.

 

I still feel we're going to lose this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Scruff said:

 

I feel a bit sorry for Perez in that he was stumbling, but fucking hell mate, don't try and break my favourite players ankle on the way down.

 

I thought that in real-time, but he stepped outwards with that last one and knew he was getting none of the ball. Awful challenge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Scruff said:

 

I feel a bit sorry for Perez in that he was stumbling, but fucking hell mate, don't try and break my favourite players ankle on the way down.

 

I still feel we're going to lose this.

Think Rodgers needs to take Maddison off and stick Soumare in the middle with Ndidi and Tielemans. Then look to hit your lot on the break with Barnes and Vardy. 
 

Perez is a frustrating player at times, very hit and miss. Same goes for Maddison. Can’t be too annoyed if this goes badly we’ve got arguably our first choice defence out - Justin, Fofana, Evans and Castagne. And out new CB Vestegard got injured in training to boot. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.