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Football Thread 2021/2022


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16 minutes ago, luckypierre said:

Integrity 😄

 

What should I do scruff? Not enjoy a win? Not go to a match? I can sit here and twist myself in knots about the brutality of SA but it makes no difference. I can't disconnect myself from the team I've supported for 40 years. It's not rational is it. That doesn't mean I'm a cheerleader for SA. It doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer another billionaire owner but that's not up to me. 

 

 

I know, and I'm not blind to the hypocrisy of me sitting here complaining about your new owners while I'll be happily watching a World Cup next year where possibly hundreds of labourers have died due to negligence from Qatar. 

I don't actually know what I would do. It's not easy to divorce yourself from something as you say, you've loved for 40 years and rather than berate Newcastle fans for wanting their team to win something and not minding about who is doing the funding,  I am genuinely worried about the club and city itself. I mean if Newcastle players wear any form of anti discrimination it's going to look hollow as fuck considering the barbaric treatment of LGBTQ rights in SA and that isn't the players fault, nor the fans but that negativity will filter down and start to affect the club. I'd expect to see a lot more protest and negative press too.

 

It does however turn my stomach to see pictures of Newcastle fans holding KSA flags though.

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18 minutes ago, milko said:

 

 

CPD y Rhyl 1879!  Man, I was well out of touch, hadn't even realised they folded the old club formally.

I didn’t know until way after as I moved away for work just before the pandemic hit. 120 years and it’s just gone.

 

As for all the integrity stuff. You can still follow your club, check scores, be happy if they are doing well etc. I’m not going to begrudge Newcastle fans or expect anyone to hold the standard I’m considering holding myself to.

 

On a personal level I just see it like this: watching the games, putting any money into the EPL etc either directly or by putting up the viewership for investor justification makes us part of the machine. It’s ugly and it is unfair and even though many get around the money part through illegal streams the attention still proves there is a widespread hunger for elite level football. With illegal streams it’s simply a question of when they will find way to make money off or make it harder to do, the hunger for football will persist.

 

In the grand scale I think we as fans all stand to lose out in some form due to how the sport is now.

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14 minutes ago, Dig Dug said:

On a personal level I just see it like this: watching the games, putting any money into the EPL etc either directly or by putting up the viewership for investor justification makes us part of the machine. It’s ugly and it is unfair and even though many get around the money part through illegal streams the attention still proves there is a widespread hunger for elite level football. With illegal streams it’s simply a question of when they will find way to make money off or make it harder to do, the hunger for football will persist.

I was actually typing something very similar to this, and I agree with you. For all the cries of 'integrity', if you still watch the games in some fashion - be it through a dodgy stream, overseas broadcast, in a pub or whatever, you're still indirectly supporting whatever owners you are railing against, because you are contributing to that club being a desirable product from which money can be made. There are obviously degrees to this, and watching but not paying is lower on the scale than attending matches or buying replica shirts, sure - but the only way to have a completely principled stand would be to stop watching your club completely, however sad or upsetting that may be to you.

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If you're not putting money into the club or its sponsors, you are not supporting the regime. Otherwise, you are. I appreciate a lot of people are going through all sorts of gymnastics to justify their continued following their club - heard it all before - but just be honest.

 

Where there is a difference between the situation we had at United and the present at Newcastle, is that we were piggy banks. Our money was doing the purchase for them. The geordies, by their visual presence be it in the shirt, in their tea towel, or at the match, are now visual representations of "We don't mind what you do", and a sportswashing of the Saudi state.

 

It's awful for a club to be lost under any circumstances, but this one is doubly awful. To see anybody dancing at the news, or tying themselves in knots to believe it's somehow OK, is deeply sad.

 

Anyway, did enough of this sixteen years back. Love and best wishes to the proper lads who do the right thing - it's horrible, but it does get easier over time. Those OK with the current turn of events can fuck themselves. Cheerio.

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32 minutes ago, Scruff said:

 

I know, and I'm not blind to the hypocrisy of me sitting here complaining about your new owners while I'll be happily watching a World Cup next year where possibly hundreds of labourers have died due to negligence from Qatar. 

I don't actually know what I would do. It's not easy to divorce yourself from something as you say, you've loved for 40 years and rather than berate Newcastle fans for wanting their team to win something and not minding about who is doing the funding,  I am genuinely worried about the club and city itself. I mean if Newcastle players wear any form of anti discrimination it's going to look hollow as fuck considering the barbaric treatment of LGBTQ rights in SA and that isn't the players fault, nor the fans but that negativity will filter down and start to affect the club. I'd expect to see a lot more protest and negative press too.

 

It does however turn my stomach to see pictures of Newcastle fans holding KSA flags though.

 

The thing with Qatar/the World Cup is LGBTQ rights in Qatar aren't that great either, but I guess as the whole world is going then any hollowness of current and future anti discrimination action is going to be on the individual players rather than the national teams.

 

As for the hypocrisy of watching it then its an interesting question as to what should people be doing? If Newcaslte fans shouldn't attend St James Park anymore and give no money to their club then what is morally right in terms of the World Cup. Its not enough to not go to Qatar and watch any of the games live. If you watch a game on the BBC then you are technically funding it (assuming you pay the license fee), if you buy the Panini sticker album or watched your national team at home in a qualifier?

 

Thats not to say the Qatar government is as bad a the Saudi government, but what is the line?

 

 

 

 

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I was ready to walk away when the Super League stuff happened as that would have torn up the integrity of the actual sport and made it impossible to enjoy matches. I think I've managed to divorce the team and players and manager from the ownership and can proceed like that for the time being. We've got some players I like and a project to invest in which helps I guess. There is of course crossover between Arsenal the team and Arsenal the global corporation, but I'm doing my best. The club I started supporting doesn't exist now anyway – the links to community and area are very weak and that was a huge part of it for me, but you still get a feel of the last vestiges of that if you go to the right pub or pie shop before the game. It's very difficult to feel like you're anything other than a consumer of the product now, rather than a part of the club. It felt like they used to need me to turn up, but knowing the club could run fine with an empty ground each week isn't great. The team do, which is nice but ultimately unfulfilling. Any success is a win for the Kroenkes which is quite deflating.

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That's a brilliant post @feltmonkey and encapsulates just how twisted a situation this is.

 

I do wonder how many fans truly do care about the owners though. I'm sure plenty will be concerned and conflicted, but I would wager that, sadly, the majority are just happy to have rid of Ashley, whilst also being excited by the promise of millions being pumped into the squad - and will write-off any abuses by the regime as being a problem in a faraway land that they don't need to worry about (if they even think of them at all).

 

I guess we'll see over the next few weeks if fans intend to make any noise about it, because there are going to be a lot of eyes on Newcastle in the coming weeks so it would be the best opportunity to do something.

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The problem is more nuanced than that (Adam Johnson) for two reasons.

 

1) WHat NUFC have done is not illegal there has been no illegal act performed by the club, staff or players. The team and players have not done anything to stop a fan from wearing their shirt.

 

2) This isn't about 1 player on your team, this is business being taken over my a morally corrupt and evil regime responsible for despicable acts.

 

I am heartbroken that my club has been taken from me in this way, Ashley was a nasty shitty piece of work and I can't help but feel that him selling to these scumbags is his final fuck you to the fans.

 

I am not sure how it will affect my support for the team and players. I cannot stop feeling something for their performances and progress but it is tainted.

 

In some ways I hope we are relegated in successive seasons and we are sold again.

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11 minutes ago, neoELITE said:

So which owners in the EPL are nice? Norwich and Burnley probably but who else? 

i tihnk there is a point to made trhat there are "not nice" owners and human rights violating owners. A different scale altogether.

 

Disappointingly SHearer is very positive with only these paragraphs giving any hint of an issue

 

"I understand that questions have to be asked about the human rights issues, it's really important that we don't brush them under the carpet," Shearer added.

"We have to educate ourselves on that and this will highlight that even more... but already they are massively invested in this country and other sports.

"It is a huge issue but it's not Newcastle United fans' fault - they don't get a say in their football club and how it's run."

 

I am not sure what other sports in this country KSA have invested in but Im sure it is not on the scale of owning a whole football club. The latter quote is of course true but how does a fan square the circle between "it's not our fault how our club is run" and "yay our club won some stuff and it only took some blood soaked money to do it".

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2 minutes ago, Dudley said:

"It's important we don't brush it under the carpet" says Shearer, before asking for a hand with his broom and carpet lifting stick.

yeah pretty fucking shit responses from most ex NUFC players today.

 

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2 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

The objection against the owners is far from the same - Man Utd fans protest against the Glaziers because they hurt the club, not because they are responsible for reprehensible actions outside the club.  The Saudis will, on the surface, massively help Newcastle.

 

This.

It's bizarre to compare the two situations, they are nothing alike.

 

Some Newcastle supporters will be torn apart by the moral dilemma with their situation.  To just expect a supporter, some who live their lives through football just to give up on their team the day after this is announced, is totally unfair.

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I think some of the fans who are optimistic or unable to "walk away" now arent "bad" fans, for some it may be that when they're going to games things just don't feel like the club they've supported and that's when they decide to support from afar or find a different club. For alot of people the club is more than the on field success, or lack of, and it's the people they see week in week out as part of attending games or being part of the local community.

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3 hours ago, Ork1927 said:

 

The thing with Qatar/the World Cup is LGBTQ rights in Qatar aren't that great either, but I guess as the whole world is going then any hollowness of current and future anti discrimination action is going to be on the individual players rather than the national teams.

 

As for the hypocrisy of watching it then its an interesting question as to what should people be doing? If Newcaslte fans shouldn't attend St James Park anymore and give no money to their club then what is morally right in terms of the World Cup. Its not enough to not go to Qatar and watch any of the games live. If you watch a game on the BBC then you are technically funding it (assuming you pay the license fee), if you buy the Panini sticker album or watched your national team at home in a qualifier?

 

Thats not to say the Qatar government is as bad a the Saudi government, but what is the line?

 

 

 

 


Qatar World Cup can fuck right off. I can’t even try to think about it without being awfully sad and burning with rage at the same time. Your national team will be walking out onto a stadium built on the bodies of slave labour as the world applauds. There’s things in the world that is just pure evil, there’s nothing else you can describe them as, the human suffering that’s happening purely for a sporting event, for greed, money and so a small oil state can willy wave to the world. Are we truly okay with the lives being crushed for games of football? I haven’t looked at the qualifiers and the tournament doesn’t exist to me. I wish the national team would refuse to play or at least one player make a stand to highlight the inhumanity that they are complicit in by taking part in it. 
 

Football sold out long ago, it sold its soul, it sold its morals its now capitalism in its most inhumane and evil incarnation. 
 

It’s hard as a supporter, because we love our clubs, but truly just fuck football. 

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I am ripping off Owen Slot at the times but it’s true: the nadir of the sport was reached when awarding the World Cup to Qatar where it is illegal to be homosexual. If, as a governing body of a sport, you make a decision like that then “anything goes”. There are no principles left to uphold. 
 

I support Burnley. I am a season ticket holder but I take interest in nothing else in the sport. Tunnel vision. Until it’s over for us too.

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23 minutes ago, GaryC said:

I am ripping off Owen Slot at the times but it’s true: the nadir of the sport was reached when awarding the World Cup to Qatar where it is illegal to be homosexual. If, as a governing body of a sport, you make a decision like that then “anything goes”. There are no principles left to uphold. 
 

I support Burnley. I am a season ticket holder but I take interest in nothing else in the sport. Tunnel vision. Until it’s over for us too.

 

@Plissken we found the other one.

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