MGS:TTS Old vs. New

[Ebisumaru]

Gah, I'll be buying it anyway, being a MGS virgin. Well, apart from the GBC version, but the cart was defective and all...

[suzakuseven]

I think I'm..... wanting this game less and less.

I guess that'll be your loss then....

Those cut scenes in the trailor have convinced me to get this. No amount of tiny screenshot comparisons will get me to think otherwise. Just wack the brightness of your TV right down when you play it. That'll make it more moody and atmospheric. Maybe.

[Boutros]

Freud was only one letter away from Fraud.

But are you saying I'm wrong?

Wrong, hmmmm... no...

Over-analysing... hmmmm... yes

[danryu]

It does look far too neat and washed out, and as far as I could tell from the video of the cutscenes the faces on everyone show no emotion, have quite low polygon counts making everyone look like Odo (see Soul Calibur 2 and Eternal Darkness) and the lips don't sync at all.

[scottcr]

hmmm.. looks very much like MGS2 to me.. and how can that possibly be a BAD thing?

Some folks'll complain about anything.

Go back and see the PS1 moving.. it looked gritty because it was so jaggy and low res. I can see the point, I think some people even liked the jaggy look of it.. but me... I'm quite keen on the superior MGS1 using MGS2 style engine. Best of both worlds.

[suzakuseven]

Seems to me they've been placing too much effort into jazzing up the already impressive cutscenes and not enough into making the game look anywhere near acceptable for a remake of one of the best games ever.

Hmmm, I see your reasoning. Yes it doesn't quite look anywhere near as nice as the Resi remakes, but as long as the whole thing is pulled off with panache (sp?) I'll be happy. After all, Eternal Darkness wasn't the nicest looking game in the world, but played well (I thought).

[Cthulhu]

I'm definately not buying it. Partially because I don't like remakes full stop. I'd prefer to spend my money on something new...

[Spacehost]

Thry game balance better be spot-on, if they've just put you in the same ol' environments with the same ol' guard patterns and just thrown better AI and new moves in, I don't see it working properly... :/

[suzakuseven]

I think she looks quite nice...not sure about Sniper Wolf's lips though....

[Cthulhu]

Thry game balance better be spot-on, if they've just put you in the same ol' environments with the same ol' guard patterns and just thrown better AI and new moves in, I don't see it working properly... :/

Guard 1: Shit! I've been shot in the leg!

Guard 2: Holy Crap! We've got trouble! Lets check it out!

Return to your positions!

Guard 1: Eh, it didn't hurt that much anyway.

Guard 2: Lets go back to our posts and not raise a general alarm.

Guard 1: Good plan.

[suzakuseven]

Now if only they said that in game...

[jayboy]

The parallels between Snake and Shadow Moses are painfully clear. An old soldier brought out of seclusion to infiltrate a decaying facility, held by a terrorist group wanting to get hold of the bodily remains of a dead military genuis.

The game is about fading glory. An old generation's last stand against the new wave of Genome enhanced soldiers...

Cthulhu....I don't like to say it, but you scare me, and you need to get out more.

And before anyone says why don't I quote properly, I can't work out how to, cos the quote button never appears over other people's posts.

[danryu]

You can see from the comparison between the screens of old and new that the new one has no real art direction. the whole thing needs a grime filter, and a good look at the textures and the layout of all the objects right down to things like making the crates not just look like a big clean polygon cube (remake) by disguising the fact with textures that make them blend in better, for example the sheet that drapes over onto the ground (original)

[Cthulhu]

Cthulhu....I don't like to say it, but you scare me, and you need to get out more.

If I scare you, I suggest you stay away from people who like to think or talk films, books, and possibly the odd bit of art... and the immediate assumption that I'm a shut-in because I try and look beyond the denotitive is quite frankly insulting.

[Project 2501]

The whole excercise stinks to be honest. Graphically it's seriously under par, the lighting is flatter than the proverbial pancake (unified lighting pipeline my ass!) Textures that wouldn't shame an N64 and character models who's arms don't join up with their body's correctly. The whole game seems like a cynical excercise to me, with the likes of Pandora Tommorrow, Deadly Shadows and Snake Eater on the horizon tis may as well not exist. And I loved MGS2.

[rgraves]

Mmm IGN don't seem worried (and they have at least played the final build):

The game is gorgeous. Superior detail. Amazingly realistic character models, fluid animation, big worlds overflowing with crisp textures, excellent lighting and particle effects and unparalleled storytelling sequences. Really, these are fabulous. There are some crazy new water reflections and transparencies. Without giving too much away, one character, a ninja named Gray Fox who can turn transparent, features some of the best refraction effects I've seen in a game. All of the atmospheric elements, from snow and rain to fire and smoke, look outstanding. And the game even runs in progressive scan mode.

And as for the guard patterns/AI:

In fact, Denis explained that the A.I. is even more refined than what was seen in MGS2. Guards are more sensitive to sound and missing patrols. Once alerted, these foes will maintain a higher level of caution on their patrol routes. However, the biggest addition to the A.I. is that guards will now strategically clear outside areas (which was only done indoors in MGS2).

[jayboy]

If I scare you, I suggest you stay away from people who like to think or talk films, books, and possibly the odd bit of art... and the immediate assumption that I'm a shut-in because I try and look beyond the denotitive is quite frankly insulting.

I think you are looking for things that are not there to be honest.

Its just a video game....not a film or a book, or a piece of art. And I have studied film and books.

Just enjoy the games for what they are, and stop trying to "intellectualise" your hobby

[Spacehost]

Its just a video game....not a film or a book, or a piece of art. And I have studied film and books.

Just enjoy the games for what they are, and stop trying to "intellectualise" your hobby

Err, wrong answer?

[Cthulhu]

I think you are looking for things that are not there to be honest.

Its just a video game....not a film or a book, or a piece of art. And I have studied film and books.

Just enjoy the games for what they are, and stop trying to "intellectualise" your hobby

You've "Studied Film", eh?

Please excuse me while I don't scrape the floor with my chin bowing low to you or anything, but I'm not taking you seriously from this point onward. I know a lot of games are slapped together, but are you telling me that you actually believe that nobody gives subtext or parallels any thought at all in video games?

[David Kenny]

If I scare you, I suggest you stay away from people who like to think or talk films, books, and possibly the odd bit of art... and the immediate assumption that I'm a shut-in because I try and look beyond the denotitive is quite frankly insulting.

I think you are looking for things that are not there to be honest.

Its just a video game....not a film or a book, or a piece of art. And I have studied film and books.

Just enjoy the games for what they are, and stop trying to "intellectualise" your hobby

If you've studied films and books surely you're familiar with the notion of a sub-text.

Edit : Cthulhu already mentioned subtexts above.

[Project 2501]

Mmm IGN don't seem worried (and they have at least played the final build):

Which conveniently contrasts with gamespots impressions.

How about other graphical issues? Some fans are wondering about aliasing problems, as in when you see a jagged stepladder effect on diagonal lines. Aliasing is noticeable in some scenes, but then again, it's still an issue with many games. It didn't bother us here. What about the cinematic filter effects from the original Metal Gear Solid, which extensively used motion blur during its cutscenes? There isn't much in the way of motion blur here, but some other effects--such as for the ninja's and Otacon's stealth camouflage and the heat shimmer in the blast furnace area of the game--look quite good. There are no bump mapping or other high-end graphical effects here to speak of. Characters don't cast per-pixel shadows, so don't expect to see a guard's shadow come creeping out from around a corner as you could in MGS2. As mentioned, some other graphical effects are lifted straight from MGS2, such as guard animations, explosions, and blood effects.

Some other notes about the graphics: Although the character models are about on par here with those of Metal Gear Solid 2, the environments aren't as detailed. Textures can be pretty blurry when viewed up close, and the level of peripheral detail isn't as high as in MGS2, in which you could do such things as shoot over an ice bucket and watch the individual ice cubes melt. Here, by comparison, you can shoot at certain computer screens, and they won't show any signs of damage. The environments weren't that spectacular in the original MGS--where the game took place entirely in what looked like an industrial complex--so don't expect them to look too much more exciting here.

[Cthulhu]

Edit : Cthulhu already mentioned subtexts above.

And I've never even Studied Film! Way-Hey!

[Spacehost]

First image here (too big for forum)

They look bad.

Stupid as this sounds, it doesn't look like a cold frosty dawn to me. Which is the big pay-off at the end of MGS after all those corridors, really.

[danryu]

IGN don't seem worried about the graphics

Which conveniently contrasts with gamespots impressions.

That's because Gamespot are a lot smarter than IGN. From the many IGN articles i've been subjected to in the past, IGN are a bunch of wide-eyed impressionable childlike unsophisticated fanboys that probably think that the new Star Wars movies are really cool and full of artistic merit.

Watch Edge give TT a 5, Gamespot give it a 7 and IGN give it a 10

[Liquid Myth]

As strange as it sounds, I preferred the subtle hint of green in the original. The new one looks grey and horrible.

[jayboy]

You've "Studied Film", eh?

Please excuse me while I don't scrape the floor with my chin bowing low to you or anything, but I'm not taking you seriously from this point onward. I know a lot of games are slapped together, but are you telling me that you actually believe that nobody gives subtext or parallels any thought at all in video games?

Oh no...your not going to take me seriously!!!!

Maybe you should atke yourself less seriously.

Get a grip mate, I wasn't insuating that I was an authority on film.

Anyway you just carry on reading things into games, while I'll just play them like a dumbo.

I am not saying games do not have a subtexts, but they way you were going on before was OTT.

The red in Mario's dungarees symbolise the burning love in his heart for Daisy, and the blue in contrast his yearning for the sea.

Get a grip

[rgraves]

Which conveniently contrasts with gamespots impressions.

But they don't really contrast at all - IGN say the game looks good, Gamespot say the game looks good (with many effects lifted from MGS2 which everyone agrees looked erm...pretty good). Gamespot are hardly running around calling it "sub-N64" standard like some folks on here are they.

I'll make my own mind up when I play it, and I'd also say that I would place more faith in the videos I've seen so far (which look good), than a load of quite frankly dark grabs.

[Cthulhu]

I am not saying games do not have a subtexts, but they way you were going on before was OTT.

The red in Mario's dungarees symbolise the burning love in his heart for Daisy, and the blue in contrast his yearning for the sea.

Get a grip

Why is it over the top? It's an obvious parallel made for the good of the atmosphere in the game?

As for Mario? I'd probably say that the colours were chosen because of their primary nature, in a colourful game... but each to their own.

[Liquid Myth]

Oh no...your not going to take me seriously!!!!

Maybe you should atke yourself less seriously.

Get a grip mate, I wasn't insuating that I was an authority on film.

Anyway you just carry on reading things into games, while I'll just play them like a dumbo.

I am not saying games do not have a subtexts, but they way you were going on before was OTT.

The red in Mario's dungarees symbolise the burning love in his heart for Daisy, and the blue in contrast his yearning for the sea.

Get a grip

Do you know how completely clueless you're sounding? I mean really. First, you're denouncing games as puerile and idiotic, in a forum where the prime function is to discuss gaming. Secondly, this is just a comparitive look at a game and it's remake, and why some people may have negative views on it. It's hardly rocket science, is it? Just a natural discussion on video games, which is quite natural to, yes, people who play video games. Except, it seems to be beyond your grasp, and then you insult people for showing a bit of intellegence.

Grow up.

[jayboy]

Do you know how completely clueless you're sounding? I mean really. First, you're denouncing games as puerile and idiotic, in a forum where the prime function is to discuss gaming. Secondly, this is just a comparitive look at a game and it's remake, and why some people may have negative views on it. It's hardly rocket science, is it? Just a natural discussion on video games, which is quite natural to, yes, people who play video games. Except, it seems to be beyond your grasp, and then you insult people for showing a bit of intellegence.

Grow up.

I never denounced games as peurile and idiotic.

He went OTT, simple as that.

Clueless eh....meh