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Babylon 5 reboot


JohnC
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I can’t think what you are referring to?

 

Best line I remember is from Delenn, which was all in the delivery

 

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Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me.

 

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I like how generally the theme of the second half of Season 4 is

 

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You do NOT compromise with fascists. When Earth Force starts killing tens of thousands of civilians escaping to Babylon 5 to make a point, Sheridan goes basically ape shit. Ivanova, distraught at the atrocity, says she hoped they'd have been able to find a solution that didn't mean shooting at their own people, but as Sheridan rightly points out: there can be zero tolerance for war crimes. Despite the big war with the ancient powerful beings that went on, it's always the closer to real world issues where the show is best and at its most interesting.

 

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Of course it does then start planting the seeds of the question

 

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Is Sheridan going too far?

 

The way it weaves the story from here with Garibaldi and the telepaths is more interesting to me now than the Shadow war part of the season was.

 

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It's a fascinating exploration of different faces of evil:

 

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Fascism, Capitalism and Jingoism, all pitched against each other. And at the centre, the suffering of those exploited by all three.

 

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What Sheridan does with the telepaths is probably the most morally questionable thing he does in the show. It's not quite Janeway with Tuvix bad though, as it's at least a sort of "greater good" idea, but it's pretty bad.

 

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On 10/10/2021 at 08:29, Benny said:

And another bit of trivia about Chrysalis:

 

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Apparently Delen was originally supposed to present as male, so would have transitioned to female as well. When I was watching it on this rewatch, the way her change is treated and the struggles with the reaction from her people and other various characters, I started to wonder if that had been the intention, and it turns out it was. Sure it would have been very limited in terms of trans depiction on modern television, but if it had been done at the time it would have been one of the earliest examples on TV. There seems to be a bit of discussion online at the moment of how this might be in a potential reboot.

 

 

 

Lurkers guide is still available on GitHub, on the JSM Speaks bit of the episode guide he has this to say on that transformation.

 

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...the plan was to turn Delenn from male to female in "Chrysalis," in my original plans, as well as making her half-human.  And yes, it would've had one hell of an impact...but my concern when I made that decision not do do this back in the pilot was based on the reality that we couldn't do it well.  The "male" voice, altered by computer-enhancement, just sounded REAL bogus; we couldn't get it right, and I had to decide between dropping it, and doing something the people would rightly describe as lame all season, just for one big payoff.  It was a tough call, but it had to be made.

 

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Something I really do love about the last season though:

 

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With most of the big stuff out of the way, you get to see a side to certain characters who have now become friends, and see how they interact in times of relative peace. It's like a warm comforting blanket of an extended epilogue, before the darkness that follows. G'Kar and Delen's friendship is particularly lovely, when you think back to how they were in the pilot episode.

 

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I'm watching them as part of the Ideal Intended Order you can find online.

 

Though I'm not watching the last episode of season 4 and 5 as the very last thing as I still think they work best to watch at the end of their seasons as normal. And In the Beginning I watched after Season 4 as I think it's a good bookend for the season and has foreshadowing for season 5

 

https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Viewing_Order

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In Season 5, just watched the first kind of stupid bit since Season 1:

 

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The hostage taking telepaths use a telekinetic one to clear a hallway of security by pelting them with a few boxes. I couldn't help thinking the telepaths already have guns on them which are a lot more dangerous. It's probably just a budget failing - as a telekinetic that could for example pull bits of ceiling down on their cover positions would have made more sense.

 

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Just started a full rewatch thanks to this thread, and had a ‘fuck me’ moment just now watching The Gathering as Mr Morden (Ed Wasser) has a fun cameo near the end as a technician on the command deck. Never knew about that. Marvellous.

 

Answer me this though. Why in Lyta’s mind-reading of Kosh meeting fake Sinclair does Kosh see himself extending a glowing human (or perhaps Minbari) hand? That’s for sure what a human Jeff or Minbari assassin would see, but presumably not Kosh himself... unless they too happen to have decidedly humanoid hands.

 

Or perhaps, is it because Lyta can’t process what she sees of how Kosh sees himself, and so she subs in human physiology?

 

Either way, a very cool reference to much later revelations. As is all the stuff around the Battle of the Line and the hole in Sinclair’s mind. Love it.

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To my mind it's still the greatest TV series ever. While it has its dodgy moments and an obvious lack of budget at times, and the technology at the time leave some bits wanting now, the overaching story is just incredible. You also have to consider that while there are some poor episodes this was a show that for the vast majority of its run was written by one man, not a huge writers room. Then you add the effects of running a show had on the ploting, with people leaving (the actress that played Talia at the end of season 1, Ivanova at the end of season 4 and obviously the health issues that lead to Sinclair leaving), however through all of that you still get an incredible tale, that holds up on second watch because you see all the foreshadowing. And once again you need to put that into context, nothing like this was on TV, we were only just getting into the idea that you could do an arc for a series, this was 5 years of story right off the bat, fucking incredible.

 

Yes season 5 is a bit of a let down and is very slow to get going, and season 4 ends up being rushed but that's because they didn't know that season 5 would be made and had to try and potentially end a 5 year project in 4 years. The last episode, filmed at the end of season 4 but moved once they got the green light for 5, is probably the greatest payoff, and send off to a show there has ever been.

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I would disagree that Season 5 was a let down. On this rewatch the storytelling is as strong as ever, and it ultimately

 

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forms the end arc of the Londo Molari tragedy. Which is essentially the real story of Babylon 5. Season 5 is less bombastic but more contemplative, and it ends up showing the final consequences of that single turning point years ago when Molari made that single choice, fuelled by delusions of grandeur and colonial nostalgia, which sets in motion the domino effect that ultimately destroys his entire world. It's awesome. And it's one of the few sci-fi shows where the moral lessons are so beautifully, painfully stark.

 

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It’s still great but it’s obvious that there are filler episodes and the need to introduce Lochley. After the sheer pace of 4 it’s slightly jarring, The second half is top tier again though.

 

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I do love that fact that Lochley was previously married to Sheridan though.

 

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21 hours ago, jonamok said:

Or perhaps, is it because Lyta can’t process what she sees of how Kosh sees himself, and so she subs in human physiology?

 

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The Vorlons manipulated many younger races to ensure they were seen as religious figures. Could this be a side effect of the process?

 

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Indeed, this is what I’m referring to. She can’t even see Kosh’s true form in Kosh’s own memory of looking at his own hand. She sees the human-angel version instead. Just instinctive.

 

Of course, it might just be JMS hadn’t worked out the whole Vorlon schtick at that point and they just used a glowing white hand.

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That's Season 5 done.

 

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To this day, the only part of Babylon 5's story I still think I don't like is Lenir doing that out of character thing, and then for him to be the only major character that never gets any closure. I figure it must have been left open for a spin off, like the "new" B5 crew were.

 

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