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Dolby Vision for Games on Series X/S


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2 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Awesome. My telly just got a free upgrade. Any chance of this ever arriving on PS5 too, or is there some kind of exclusivety  going on? Because man this looks awesome


doubt it - licensing fees, and it requires effort on their OS, that isn’t focused on making it less easy to navigate.

 

best case, sometime after they support VRR.

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17 minutes ago, JPL said:

 


I like how it went from a partridge.gif shrug to being amazing in just a few short posts!

I suppose it depends on your telly. And whether you've enabled it in the settings I guess! But on my aforementioned Panasonic, the difference was significant. Then I went back to the game I was playing, FF13 on BC, and holy shit. Really really fucking Impressed. This needs to be the standard, fuck HDR and fiddling for hours or even days just to get it not quite right. When the DV logo appears when I fire up a game, it automatically looks AWESOME. This is the way.

 

 

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I'm waiting for the 120fps patch for my CX before diving into this. I'm not expecting too much difference overall - I'm already using HGIG rather than Dynamic Tone Mapping, and I've calibrated everything carefully - but if it somehow manages to improve the always overbright Auto HDR titles, I'll be impressed.

 

As others have said, if all this does is allow for the same results but without all the endless tinkering with sliders, it'll be worthwhile.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

I'm guessing that Dolby Vision looking so much better means I didn't set up the HDR correctly despite my hours of fiddling when I got it. Nice one.

 

Yep probably. It all comes down to tonemapping. Don't beat yourself up about it, it's nearly impossible to get every game looking good with HDR. So many games utilise it badly to begin with and then give you horrible methods to calibrate each game for yourself.

 

My one fear for Dolby Vision is that it becomes a container like Atmos, and you'll see the Dolby Vision logo appear onscreen, lose the ability to calibrate, and it'll still look a bit crap. I guess we'll see. Bring it windows next please MS!

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The real benefit of Dolby Vision will be the same one it gave Film/TV; it gives devs a standardised mastering colourspace for HDR, so no more making up your own method of getting there with incredibly mixed results. But in general there's a lot of confusion about what Dolby Vision does/doesn't do, and I suspect some of the impressions about how much better it looks are a bit of a placebo. A 1000nit image mastered in Dolby Vision (the bog standard of HDR these days) and a 1000nit image in HDR10 should look exactly the same, but because they're not limited by actual physical footage some games devs have been mastering to 10,000 nits and all sorts of silly theoretical levels, which is why we've ended up with all these daft calibration tools to try and reign it in.

 

Secretly, the real reason Dolby Vision content so often looks better (for video content at least) isn't because of any magical colour science at all, it's because it prioritises the HDR version and makes the SDR version derivative of that, whereas for most non-Dolby content you'd master in SDR first and quickly kick out a 'HDR-ified' version of that afterwards. Making the HDR version the priority in Dolby Vision by it's very nature means that version is the one you spend the most time polishing to look as good as possible, and arguably it's the SDR version that suffers when it comes to DV content. You won't see that in the marketing though.

 

As for the much vaunted dynamic metadata... it doesn't do what most people seem to think it does. It's actually only used for the trim passes, so it should make absolutely no difference if you're watching something in HDR. Sometimes it'll be used for a 600nit trim (pretty much just for Apple afaik) but generally it's just used for the SDR version. Some people were confused that Dolby Vision for Gaming doesn't have any dynamic metadata but that doesn't surprise me; a) the analysis is very, very slow and b) in a gaming context it wouldn't be used for anything. 

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14 hours ago, CarloOos said:

The real benefit of Dolby Vision will be the same one it gave Film/TV; it gives devs a standardised mastering colourspace for HDR, so no more making up your own method of getting there with incredibly mixed results. But in general there's a lot of confusion about what Dolby Vision does/doesn't do, and I suspect some of the impressions about how much better it looks are a bit of a placebo. A 1000nit image mastered in Dolby Vision (the bog standard of HDR these days) and a 1000nit image in HDR10 should look exactly the same, but because they're not limited by actual physical footage some games devs have been mastering to 10,000 nits and all sorts of silly theoretical levels, which is why we've ended up with all these daft calibration tools to try and reign it in.

 

Secretly, the real reason Dolby Vision content so often looks better (for video content at least) isn't because of any magical colour science at all, it's because it prioritises the HDR version and makes the SDR version derivative of that, whereas for most non-Dolby content you'd master in SDR first and quickly kick out a 'HDR-ified' version of that afterwards. Making the HDR version the priority in Dolby Vision by it's very nature means that version is the one you spend the most time polishing to look as good as possible, and arguably it's the SDR version that suffers when it comes to DV content. You won't see that in the marketing though.

 

As for the much vaunted dynamic metadata... it doesn't do what most people seem to think it does. It's actually only used for the trim passes, so it should make absolutely no difference if you're watching something in HDR. Sometimes it'll be used for a 600nit trim (pretty much just for Apple afaik) but generally it's just used for the SDR version. Some people were confused that Dolby Vision for Gaming doesn't have any dynamic metadata but that doesn't surprise me; a) the analysis is very, very slow and b) in a gaming context it wouldn't be used for anything. 


Superb post. I’ve been following EvilBoris trying to make sense of some of the articles and claims being made around the release of this. There’s such a fundamental confusion about what it is and does that most sites are talking complete gibberish. Not to mention the bonkers videos Dolby are putting out comparing DV to HDR10, showing a thick grey filter over the HDR content as if it has an inherently higher black level or less wide gamut. 
 

We need to get to an ultra simplified on/off stage with zero calibration required because this technology is never going to make sense to the average consumer. It’s already being internalised as some sort of Instagram filter which makes your games “pop”. 

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Tried Dolby vision a while ago and for some reason thought HDR looked better. I generally use HDR filmmaker mode with dynamic tone mapping for day time when room Is bright and game mode with hgig when room not as bright. Find hgig doesn't quite cut it on sunny days.

 

Also don't get why Dolby vision only runs at 8bit when oled panels are 10bit. HDR has no problem running in 10bit.

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6 hours ago, Moz said:


Superb post. I’ve been following EvilBoris trying to make sense of some of the articles and claims being made around the release of this. There’s such a fundamental confusion about what it is and does that most sites are talking complete gibberish. Not to mention the bonkers videos Dolby are putting out comparing DV to HDR10, showing a thick grey filter over the HDR content as if it has an inherently higher black level or less wide gamut. 
 

We need to get to an ultra simplified on/off stage with zero calibration required because this technology is never going to make sense to the average consumer. It’s already being internalised as some sort of Instagram filter which makes your games “pop”. 


While I always want games, TV and movies to look optimum in terms of brightness, contrast, nits and colours, many people are always going to want things other than a properly calibrated set. Why do you think display models in shops have the brightness zapped up so much, idiots leave Motion Plus on, etc etc? ‘Movie mode’ is considered way too dark by some, there are reflection issues in some people’s lounges, not all panels off the assembly line come out the same. The list goes on and on as to why ‘on/off’ is more problematic as a concept than it might seem to us, much as I would love it and would like everyone to ‘get’ why proper colour temperature is a good thing!

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36 minutes ago, Hodge said:

Also don't get why Dolby vision only runs at 8bit when oled panels are 10bit. HDR has no problem running in 10bit.

 

I don't know the technicalities but apparently it's "12 bit in an 8 bit container", whatever that means. Some sort of hack to make the TVs accept it.

 

Apparently on the LG OLEDs Dolby Vision introduces additional colour banding at 120fps - due to bandwidth limitations the set can't receive a 4:4:4 RGB 12-bit signal at 120fps so the signal has to use additional compression to get it to work. My CX doesn't do Dolby Vision at 120 yet (waiting on the patch) but if this is true then I think I'll just be sticking with HDR, which looks great already.

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1 hour ago, Eighthours said:


While I always want games, TV and movies to look optimum in terms of brightness, contrast, nits and colours, many people are always going to want things other than a properly calibrated set. Why do you think display models in shops have the brightness zapped up so much, idiots leave Motion Plus on, etc etc? ‘Movie mode’ is considered way too dark by some, there are reflection issues in some people’s lounges, not all panels off the assembly line come out the same. The list goes on and on as to why ‘on/off’ is more problematic as a concept than it might seem to us, much as I would love it and would like everyone to ‘get’ why proper colour temperature is a good thing!

 

On all modern TVs I've used, Dolby Vision being active removes brightness/contrast/tonemapping settings while still allowing people to turn on their horrible oversaturated colours, cool colour profiles and motion smoothing. It's already an on/off solution for HDR and works exactly as it should, but it's not commonplace. All it needs is wider adoption. You're talking about filmmaker mode, where a whole glut of settings including framerate, colour, interpolation etc can be changed to match directorial intent regardless of the viewing environment. I don't think we'll ever see a "filmmaker mode" for games, though I wouldn't put it past Kojima... Besides, most game modes turn off most additional processing to decrease latency. Once you've got a game running in Dolby Vision "game" profile there's very little you can do to alter the image.

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13 hours ago, Fargo said:

Makes everything look a little brown on my LG B9. Am I missing something in the tv settings ?

 

LG TVs have completely different per-input per-mode settings for SDR, HDR and Dolby Vision. You can use ISF Bright or dark for SDR, Cinema Home for HDR and Dolby Vision Cinema for DV. Then switch to SDR/HDR/DV game mode when you're gaming. They're all configured differently on each input so it's a job to keep on top of it all if you have multiple consoles. I use an Apple TV 4K but I imagine watching all your content on a single device might prove to be a bit annoying too, as you'll have to keep switching modes on that input. If the TV supports ALLM and detects an ALLM signal (the Xbox Series does this) it should automatically switch to the game profile and tell you in the top right hand corner.

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Does this require a reset of the console or anything? I've ticked the box in the Xbox settings.

 

Loading up Psychonauts 2 and my tv is still displaying the "HDR" logo in the top right, rather than the Dolby Vision one that appears on DV content in netflix etc. Is that right?

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1 minute ago, Teeohbee said:

Does this require a reset of the console or anything? I've ticked the box in the Xbox settings.

 

Loading up Psychonauts 2 and my tv is still displaying the "HDR" logo in the top right, rather than the Dolby Vision one that appears on DV content in netflix etc. Is that right?

 

What TV are you using? If it's an LG CX or earlier, it won't work if you've got the console set to output 120fps, you'll need to wait for a TV firmware update for that. Drop it down to 60 or stick to HDR.

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7 minutes ago, Garwoofoo said:

 

What TV are you using? If it's an LG CX or earlier, it won't work if you've got the console set to output 120fps, you'll need to wait for a TV firmware update for that. Drop it down to 60 or stick to HDR.

 

Ah that'll probably be it then! I've got an LG E9, so 2019 (?) model, not sure if they'll bother updating the older sets.

 

Does running in 120fps mode serve any benefit if I'm playing mostly games capped at 60fps? Guess I've got to weigh up any benefit there against the the DV gains. Cheers!

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2 hours ago, Moz said:

 

LG TVs have completely different per-input per-mode settings for SDR, HDR and Dolby Vision. You can use ISF Bright or dark for SDR, Cinema Home for HDR and Dolby Vision Cinema for DV. Then switch to SDR/HDR/DV game mode when you're gaming. They're all configured differently on each input so it's a job to keep on top of it all if you have multiple consoles. I use an Apple TV 4K but I imagine watching all your content on a single device might prove to be a bit annoying too, as you'll have to keep switching modes on that input. If the TV supports ALLM and detects an ALLM signal (the Xbox Series does this) it should automatically switch to the game profile and tell you in the top right hand corner.


Once I changed the setting to game mode once it’s remembered it ever since. Annoyingly though you do seem to get a black screen for a few seconds when launching a game from the dash as it switches over. 

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You might be able to avoid that black screen by changing the Xbox's SDR output bit depth - 10-bit will be the same as HDR, 12-bit will be the same as Dolby Vision. If it's using the same bit depth all the time then you might not get that blank screen.

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1 hour ago, Fargo said:


Once I changed the setting to game mode once it’s remembered it ever since. Annoyingly though you do seem to get a black screen for a few seconds when launching a game from the dash as it switches over. 

 

It will do, but only for that input. If you plug your Xbox into a different input it will revert to the default movie mode I expect. Or if you have a PS5 and an Xbox, SDR game mode on one input will differ from the other. But you can use "copy to all inputs" to paste your config for that mode to the other inputs. Likewise the other problem is if you go to watch a Netflix Dolby vision movie on your Xbox, it might default to Dolby Vision game mode which might not be ideal for your preference. However if it's clever it will switch between game mode and movie mode depending on whether it's getting an ALLM signal or not.

 

Short version, it can be annoying to try and do everything on a single device. I use consoles purely for gaming and an Apple TV 4K purely for media. That's all I'm getting at. 

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On 28/09/2021 at 09:12, Moz said:

Dolby Vision does away with all this by sending contrast and brightness metadata to your TV.

I had absolutely no idea this was the case. This is good, because the kids keep faffing with my TV's settings.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Careful with engineer beta firmware, sometimes the build number can be higher than public builds meaning you are stuck if later public builds are lower.

 

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