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Western Game UI vs Japanese Game UI


Talvalin
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(split from the Celebrities who can't handle their shit on Twitter thread)

 

 

Blow (and some other dickheads) talking about the superiority of Western game design compared to modern day Japanese games. Have at it people.

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Christ what a bunch of wankers. That guy who looks and sound like a catoonists idea of a nerd brought to life moaning about tutorials because his giant brain doesn't need them is pure cringe.

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What a load of elitist knobs. I’m fairly certain all video games are guilty of the hand holding and shitty exposition they are criticising here. Bloody hell - have they played Gears of War? Halo? They both have boring tutorial sections which are crap for anyone used to playing the game. 

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Take some nerds of above average intelligence, but not as smart as they think they are. Give them microphones. Tell them they're important. Watch them instantly become the biggest dickheads imaginable.

 

"Look at his little face!". Gross.

 

Blow at least answered the question with the bare minimum of civility and acknowledges that Western games were mired in their own nonsense at the time. It's bizarre how instead of talking about what's interesting or inspiring about Dark Souls or Street Fighter 4 which they name drop as good games, they just continue to shit on the bloke who asked the question.

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I have to admit I've always liked Phil Fish's response there. It's not very polite and pretty broad-brush, but I like just how bold he is and how unafraid he is of having a go at the frequently terrible UIs you get in Japanese games. We need more funny games people who aren't afraid to speak their mind.

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2 hours ago, K said:

I have to admit I've always liked Phil Fish's response there. It's not very polite and pretty broad-brush, but I like just how bold he is and how unafraid he is of having a go at the frequently terrible UIs you get in Japanese games. We need more funny games people who aren't afraid to speak their mind.


Fine I’ll do it. What are the hours? 

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3 hours ago, K said:

the frequently terrible UIs you get in Japanese games.


Really? Admittedly I’ve drifted away from video games over the last couple of years, but unless they’ve suddenly got worse I’ve alway found Japanese UIs to be more intuitive. Certainly more snappy. Mind you, the last proper non-Japanese game I played was RDR2. I guess anything compared to that crime against usability has a fantastic UI.

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15 hours ago, jon_cybernet said:


Fine I’ll do it. What are the hours? 

 

Mr Cybernet, thank you for your application. We read it with great interest. Unfortunately, due to *casts eyes around room desperately* videogames are no longer going to be made by anyone, so I'm afraid we will be unable to offer you this position.

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14 hours ago, Monkeyboy said:


Really? Admittedly I’ve drifted away from video games over the last couple of years, but unless they’ve suddenly got worse I’ve alway found Japanese UIs to be more intuitive. Certainly more snappy. Mind you, the last proper non-Japanese game I played was RDR2. I guess anything compared to that crime against usability has a fantastic UI.

 

Admittedly, that video is from 2012, and I'm not that up on the current state of Japanese UI, but I'm thinking of stuff like Resident Evil 7, Metal Gear Solid 5, Death Stranding, etc. It's probably an unfair generalisation, there are no doubt loads of European and American games with crap UI, but those ones in particular are not especially intuitive (even though they do make a weird kind of sense once you get used to them).

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I just like the way "The West" is talked about like it's a single country with a single language and culture. Of course when Americans talk about "The West", what they actually mean is the USA.

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We live in a new age of game design where the UI from any country might be unreadable on anything other than the UI designers own monitor, mysteriously always fail to respond to your first button press on just one option, or uses in-depth user telemetry to pin-point the controls that make left and right tab navigation the least intuitive thing for the maximum number of users.

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Dice have never been good at UIs byt Battlefield 2042's UI is a special kind of awful across the board. It feels like it was designed by a sadist as some form of psychological experiment.

 

477kqrf11fs71.png

 

Look at the state of this shit (bottom image, top is a previous title). The wasted space, the colour choices. I'm assumung that the eye searing teal means that an option is selected, but I couldn't swear to that and it might just as easily be if it's theother way around.

 

It's even worse when you're in game.

 

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The only way to tell friend from foe is a tiny dor above the heads of the players (most of whom may be bots but you have no way of knowing) - goodies get a teal one, baddies get an orange dot. This is a major problem as there are about 5 player models and everyone in the beta was just using the guy who gets a grappling hook so it looked like Attack of the Clones and you'd regularly see people shooting their teammates because they were confused.

 

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This is the UI for modding your gun lol.

 

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I've grown to hate the new trend for intensely cluttered menu screens that you have to navigate by pushing a little circle around with the left stick like it was a mouse pointer.

 

The last few Assassin's Creed games have done this and it's an absolute nuisance, but Marvel's Avengers takes it to new heights (lows) with tab after tab of relentless clutter. Everything you click on takes you to another screen of incomprehensible rubbish.

 

Just lay your screens out sensibly and let us jump between options with the d-pad.

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29 minutes ago, Garwoofoo said:

I've grown to hate the new trend for intensely cluttered menu screens that you have to navigate by pushing a little circle around with the left stick like it was a mouse pointer.

 

The last few Assassin's Creed games have done this and it's an absolute nuisance, but Marvel's Avengers takes it to new heights (lows) with tab after tab of relentless clutter. Everything you click on takes you to another screen of incomprehensible rubbish.

 

Just lay your screens out sensibly and let us jump between options with the d-pad.

 

You're not wrong, starting that game I found it incredibly confusing. It also sent you to the markeplace as your first port of call when I booted it up after downloading *sigh*.

 

As it's a Destiny/Division-alioke you're constantly picking up loot, 99% of which will be crap. So you're going to be wanting to dismantle it regularly so your inventory isn't filled with trash. To do this you have to.

 

  • Open the menu (duh)
  • Move the circular pointer Garwoofoo metioned over a piece of gear and press A.
  • This takes you to a separate screen where you can change out pieces of gear, but you can't scrap it directly from here.
  • Press X to take you to the 'Manage Gear' screen.
  • Each gear type (ie. Head, Chest...etc) has a separate tab on this screen.
  • You have to go into each tab and hover the pointer over a piece of gear and press LT quickly to mark it.
  • Once you've done that, you can then hold down LT to delete it all.

 

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I've always found the Xbox UI bizarrely convoluted. You can find things quickly when you're used to it, but none of it is particularly intuitive, and it feels like every single bit uses a completely different design language, so that in some bits there are vertical blades you can scroll through to access new screens, in some bits there's a sidebar that brings up various options and links, and in others there's a line of horizontal tabs across the top of the screen that you can flick between. There's very little consistency, beyond that intense green colour.

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1 minute ago, K said:

I've always found the Xbox UI bizarrely convoluted. You can find things quickly when you're used to it, but none of it is particularly intuitive, and it feels like every single bit uses a completely different design language, so that in some bits there are vertical blades you can scroll through to access new screens, in some bits there's a sidebar that brings up various options and links, and in others there's a line of horizontal tabs across the top of the screen that you can flick between. There's very little consistency, beyond that intense green colour.

Have you used it recently? It’s a lot easier to navigate these days, it’s also pretty customisable and I think you’ve always been able to change the colour, going right back to the launch of the Xbox One.

 

Anyway, two of my recent favourites have to be Forza Horizon 4 and Cyberpunk. Total unintuitive, incomprehensible nonsense. Man, I hope they sorted things for FH5.

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I'm assuming a lot of games don't have actual UI designers because a lot of them have that overly hierarchical feel that a programmer feels is very structured, but in real life is fussy and unintuitive.

 

I quite like the Divinity OS interface, radial menus followed by tabbed. Tried playing Desperados 3 with a joypad the other day and that was really hard work, although not solely down to the UI.

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A lot of AAA designers seem to model their UI on flashy futuristic screens you in movies/TV. So you end up with lots of hologram emulating eye unfriendly glowing neon writing, either information overload with info spunked everywhere willy nilly or acres of wasted space (seemingly there's no happy medium for a lot of devs), distracting moving elements and just a general level of incomprehensibility until you've spent ages with the game and learned to put up with it. Ubisoft are a prime offender in this area.

 

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Thing is stuff like this is only there to make the audience go 'Ooh look how futuristic and flashy that is and the character must be smart to understand all that!' It's not like it’s been designed for anyone to ever actually use it. Imagine sitting at your desk in front of that top eyesore all day. If Robert Downey Jnr had an actual Iron Man suit he had to use day in day out, I guarantee the UI wouldn't end up looking like that.

 

This isn't an AAA game, but look at the state of this. 🤢

 

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Jonathan Blowhard is an affront to the industry.

 

 

There used to be a font that seemed to show up in a lot of Japanese games around the 360 era, (which is probably fairly regarded as the worst era for Japanese games in general). I took it as a sign I was in for something janky but innovative.

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We've probably got a thread somewhere on teeny tiny fonts and the problems they cause, and it's not purely a Japanese thing, but they sure do love having big dialogue boxes with tiny writing in them. I mean look at Fire Emblem: Three Houses for instance:

 

sg-fe-three-houses-choir-practice-3-1024

 

You could increase the size of that text by about 30% without having to make any other changes to the UI. There's so much unused space in that dialogue box. And it would be much more readable in both handheld and TV mode. Cram a little less text in each box and you could have something that's actually pleasant to play.

 

Compare and contrast to Fire Emblem: Awakening on the 3DS:

 

Fire%2BEmblem%2BAwakening%2B2.bmp&ehk=oQ

 

Now isn't that better? I miss the days of handhelds being dedicated machines, and having UIs to match: the Switch has muddied the waters too much and everything's perpetually too small and fiddly.

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I'm always critical of small text, but I think the Fire Emblem Three Houses screenshot looks fine.  It's not so much small text as a spindly font.


I mean, this is a typical western game:

 

The-Outer-Worlds07202020-102039-59544.jp

 

Absolutely unreadable unless you're sat in front of a monitor on a desk, or have a 55" tv.

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3 hours ago, Ste Pickford said:

Currently playing Persona 5, and that has the greatest UI I've ever seen in the whole of video games.  That's got to lift the Japanese average a fair bit?  

(Not watched the video yet, just wanted an excuse to rave about the Persona 5 UI.)

 

Yeah, I came here to also say that. I mean, look at the pause menu. LOOK AT IT.

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2 hours ago, Garwoofoo said:

I've grown to hate the new trend for intensely cluttered menu screens that you have to navigate by pushing a little circle around with the left stick like it was a mouse pointer.

 

The last few Assassin's Creed games have done this and it's an absolute nuisance, but Marvel's Avengers takes it to new heights (lows) with tab after tab of relentless clutter. Everything you click on takes you to another screen of incomprehensible rubbish.

 

Just lay your screens out sensibly and let us jump between options with the d-pad.

I was going to start a thread a couple of weeks ago to complain about this trend of pseudo mouse cursor bullshit In console games!

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