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The Man Utd Thread


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22 minutes ago, fatbob said:

Like I said before, there's a point where the club is so wrecked and toxic from a marketing point of view that they're just not seeing companies want to invest in, sponsor or be associated with such an incredibly unappealing club. I think Man United has been at that point for a while now.


not sure I agree with this, they still seem to be announcing lucrative new deals every season. Still get as much for the sleeve sponsor as some teams hope for on the front of the shirt, still get the comedy “official niche business partner of East Asian region” deals. I think it would take some sustained failure (as in mid-table finishes and no Europe for like five years or more) before it made much difference to that. 

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10 minutes ago, milko said:


not sure I agree with this, they still seem to be announcing lucrative new deals every season. Still get as much for the sleeve sponsor as some teams hope for on the front of the shirt, still get the comedy “official niche business partner of East Asian region” deals. I think it would take some sustained failure (as in mid-table finishes and no Europe for like five years or more) before it made much difference to that. 

 

Adidas will reportedly save 25 million if/when we don't qualify for the CL for next season. The Team Viewer sponsorship was a lot less than the previous Chevrolet deal. It's all starting to bite!

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7 minutes ago, milko said:


not sure I agree with this, they still seem to be announcing lucrative new deals every season. Still get as much for the sleeve sponsor as some teams hope for on the front of the shirt, still get the comedy “official niche business partner of East Asian region” deals. I think it would take some sustained failure (as in mid-table finishes and no Europe for like five years or more) before it made much difference to that. 

 

The Swiss Ramble thread a page or two back tackles this a bit:
 

Commercial growth has been static for years and now in decline. 

 

On 16/08/2022 at 08:16, Chooch said:

Swiss ramble laying it bare this morning:

 

 

 

 

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still higher than everyone but City, right? They're nearly all showing downwards trends from things like Covid. I wonder how much of it's commercial sponsorships dropping versus the Covid hole in hospitality and entertainment and not getting that sweet UEFA-related money so often.

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If Ratcliffe turns up with £6bn, then the Glazers would be out like a shot but that's a reflection of the ridiculous price that someone would be willing to pay than any desire to sell.

 

The more realistic thing is to take a minority stake but Ratcliffe would be very stupid not to insist having approval of dividends and related party transactions (because that's how the Glazers take money out) and I don't think the Glazers would give up that in a hurry.

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1 hour ago, milko said:

still higher than everyone but City, right? They're nearly all showing downwards trends from things like Covid. I wonder how much of it's commercial sponsorships dropping versus the Covid hole in hospitality and entertainment and not getting that sweet UEFA-related money so often.

 

Caveat all of this: I'm not a finance expert at all, this is just what i've read. 🙂

 

It's about growth, United's relative growth has been flat or in decline since 2015. All the other clubs, specifically City and Liverpool are catching or have surpassed United's commercial growth. All these clubs had Covid to deal with too.

 

Without getting into the weeds here, the evidence suggests that United's commerical growth peaked a while ago. If your value has peaked and shows signs of decline then you strip the asset and sell it.

 

Woodwood said 6-7 years ago that success on the field (the bit the Glazers don't care about) has no impact on the commercial side (the bit they do care about). I'm saying, there's a lot of evidence to suggest this isn't true, and that there is a point where the best course for them to make the most money is to sell. (if there is a buyer)

 

image.thumb.png.925f3f35ed3e5cacfd22c38702594cab.png

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43 minutes ago, Plissken said:

The more realistic thing is to take a minority stake but Ratcliffe would be very stupid not to insist having approval of dividends and related party transactions (because that's how the Glazers take money out) and I don't think the Glazers would give up that in a hurry.

 

Yeah, I agree. A minority stake would be a very very bad investment. 

 

I heard someone use the analogy of not giving Dracula more money to continue running your blood bank and thought that was pretty apt! :lol:

 

Edited by fatbob
I can't spell!
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4 minutes ago, milko said:

@fatbob wouldn't that chart suggest the only non-screwed club is City, in that case? They've all gone flat or downwards. I am also no expert!

 

Where they all go flat is Covid, I would infer from the dates. The overall trend is that the other clubs are catching up while United has stagnated.

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image.png.e309e28ca2bca4d8b8eb0fda02e71789.png

 

If you look at it from 2016 onwards you can really see the stagnation compared to everyone else, even with COVID they're all considerably higher than they were since 2016 (with the exception of Arsenal, stadium repayments perhaps?)

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Casemiro for 60 million then? Don't really know much about him but lots of what I'm reading suggest he's one of the best defensive midfielders out there albeit over 30 and will be on mega wages. Also plays with Fred in the Brazil midfield. Obviously a massive panic buy but potentially quite a good one?

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Casemiro would be a great addition to any squad, but he doesn't fulfill ETH's requirement for a ball playing midfielder in the way FDJ would have.

 

You'd hope we'd still be in for FDJ now or in January even if this one went through, but we all know the likelihood of that in Glazer era United.

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5 hours ago, spork said:

Casemiro for 60 million then? Don't really know much about him but lots of what I'm reading suggest he's one of the best defensive midfielders out there albeit over 30 and will be on mega wages. Also plays with Fred in the Brazil midfield. Obviously a massive panic buy but potentially quite a good one?

 

He's a very good player, and a type of player we really need, and have needed for years.  He's not going to fix the team though.  He's not going to provide much in the way of progressing the ball from defence into attack.  De Jong would have been great at that, but to be honest we really need Casemiro AND De Jong.  We've currently got a midfield that does nothing - doesn't really move the ball forward, doesn't keep possession, doesn't win possession back, doesn't fill holes in the defence when other players go forward.  

 

It's like we had a car with no wheels.  We've now put two wheels on it.  It's still not going to run unless we get those other two wheels.

 

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3 minutes ago, feltmonkey said:

 

He's a very good player, and a type of player we really need, and have needed for years.  He's not going to fix the team though.  He's not going to provide much in the way of progressing the ball from defence into attack.  De Jong would have been great at that, but to be honest we really need Casemiro AND De Jong.  We've currently got a midfield that does nothing - doesn't really move the ball forward, doesn't keep possession, doesn't win possession back, doesn't fill holes in the defence when other players go forward.  

 

It's like we had a car with no wheels.  We've now put two wheels on it.  It's still not going to run unless we get those other two wheels.

 

Who are you referring to with the two wheels we’ve put on it?

 

As far as I’m aware we still have a car with no wheels and no spare in the boot. And no steering wheel. And no seats. And no… you get the idea.

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2 hours ago, 5R7 said:

Hes a good DM, but hes not a DLP. Also, £60mil for a 30 year old is fucking lunacy!

 

I wouldn't say lunacy, maybe a bit overpriced but he's a very good player and you'd hope we'd get three solid years out of him.

RVP was 29 when when we bought him, and we paid £24M and that was 10 years ago.

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5 hours ago, Marlowe said:

Casemiro would be a great addition to any squad, but he doesn't fulfill ETH's requirement for a ball playing midfielder in the way FDJ would have.

 

You'd hope we'd still be in for FDJ now or in January even if this one went through, but we all know the likelihood of that in Glazer era United.

Eriksen will fill that mould til he gets someone long term that he wants.

 

Bring Casemiro to break up play, spread to Eriksen and he can feed balls forward which Rashford can completely fuck up. 

 

Opposition counters, Maguire is 50 yards out of position and they score. But we played a nice pass or two which is progress.

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3 hours ago, JPL said:

Who are you referring to with the two wheels we’ve put on it?

 

As far as I’m aware we still have a car with no wheels and no spare in the boot. And no steering wheel. And no seats. And no… you get the idea.

 

Haha no, you're absolutely right.  I meant that buying Casemiro would be putting two wheels on the car. The car being the midfield specifically.  I think in this analogy Ronaldo is a massive hood ornament on a clapped-out Austin Allegro, and Maguire is some kind of unwieldy trailer we're dragging around.

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6 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

 

Haha no, you're absolutely right.  I meant that buying Casemiro would be putting two wheels on the car. The car being the midfield specifically.  I think in this analogy Ronaldo is a massive hood ornament on a clapped-out Austin Allegro, and Maguire is some kind of unwieldy trailer we're dragging around.

I doubt anyone would take the car off our hands even for scrap. I like this analogy! 

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I hope this frantic sticking plaster activity in the transfer window, once again too late and being carried out without a coherent plan, doesn't fool the fanbase into submission.  If the Glazers are genuinely considering selling up and getting out of the club, we need to keep the pressure on them and actually get rid of them this time.  The fact that their preferred buyer seems to be an American private equity firm worries me.  These people strip assests and destroy companies, and that would most likely be their plan with United.  The first thing they would do is sell Old Trafford and rent it back.  

 

Talking of Old Trafford, I can't be the only one who is worried that the Glazers are watching what Barcelona are doing with interest.  I wouldn't be surprised if they started selling off future TV rights, probably to fund the renovations to the stadium.

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