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Sarlaccfood
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29 minutes ago, Darwock said:


Fair enough to complain about the other stuff, and I certainly won’t be subscribing to the service (never was going to, all I want is online access) but what’s the problem with the above?

 

The PS2 classics were pretty perfect. Are we wanting them to be something different from the original PS2 games?

 

There was this weird hitching every few frames I couldn't get past.

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2 hours ago, Darwock said:


Fair enough to complain about the other stuff, and I certainly won’t be subscribing to the service (never was going to, all I want is online access) but what’s the problem with the above?

 

The PS2 classics were pretty perfect. Are we wanting them to be something different from the original PS2 games?

They're not perfect, watch the video. But apart from that, those games were already available on PS5 as native PS4 games running in BC mode. And now with this fancy new expensive subscription... those EXACT SAME GAMES are available running in PS4 BC mode.

 

You weren't hoping like I was for a few new PS2 titles? Running in an emulator that takes advantage of the PS5's power? Have you seen original Xbox games running on a Series console - all running at 4k, rock solid performance, a few fancy filters subtly applied to make them look absolutely gorgeous on a modern telly? I was hoping for something more from Sony than the handful of PS2 games that were ported to PS4 ages ago and run and look worse than original Xbox ganes running in an emulator on a Series console. Am I asking for too much?

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26 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

I was hoping for something more from Sony than the handful of PS2 games that were ported to PS4 ages ago and run and look worse than original Xbox ganes running in an emulator on a Series console. Am I asking for too much?


Yes.

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I mean, I honestly wasn’t expecting more than putting what they currently have available on the service, but I would expect nothing less than them adding more as time goes on.

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Adding features like trophies etc is absolutely not how they should be going about this. Futzing around with the games' code and creating new executables is too much work and absolutely not what they should be doing.

 

We should be getting image files of the original PS1/2 releases, being run by emulation software that at least is as good as the ones already out there. That's all they need to do. 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

They're not perfect, watch the video. But apart from that, those games were already available on PS5 as native PS4 games running in BC mode. And now with this fancy new expensive subscription... those EXACT SAME GAMES are available running in PS4 BC mode.

 

You weren't hoping like I was for a few new PS2 titles? Running in an emulator that takes advantage of the PS5's power? Have you seen original Xbox games running on a Series console - all running at 4k, rock solid performance, a few fancy filters subtly applied to make them look absolutely gorgeous on a modern telly? I was hoping for something more from Sony than the handful of PS2 games that were ported to PS4 ages ago and run and look worse than original Xbox ganes running in an emulator on a Series console. Am I asking for too much?

No you’re not asking too much, Sony are from their customers though. 

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1 hour ago, Stanley said:

No you’re not asking too much, Sony are from their customers though. 

For me it's also like - the PlayStation 5 is about as powerful as the Series X. So it should be able to do all the fancy emulation stuff that hobbyists are doing for Xbox, ranging from NES to PS1 to GameCube and Dreamcast. Even if hoping for something remotely approaching the official Xbox BC with its enhanced stuff and framerate boosts is unrealistic, surely Sony them-bloody-selves can do what a hobbyist can sitting in his mother's basement without full access to all the documentation behind the PS1, 2, and 3 like bloody Sony has?

 

SURELY at the very fucking absolute minimal level of lower than low expectations, you still expect them to get the aspect ratio of the emulated games right? Surely.

 

Never mind avoiding using PAL versions to ensure that the retro games which form the entire bloody selling point of your highest paid tier run at the very least as well as the original decades old hardware. Surely.

 

Please understand.

 

Fwiw I love the idea of playing those older games through official means on PS5, so I'm really hoping they get it right eventually. I've been playing a lot of older stuff on my Series X (it has no new games lololol etc) and having a blast - I find that the 360 generation stuff is surprisingly so much more fun to play than most of the current gen games. Imo and all that.

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I couldn't give a fuck about Gamepass, PS Now etc, despite having a fair amount of day to day time I can't even be bothered to start on the years backlog of amazing games I have on standard PS+ which I do want to play so this couldn't be any less attractive even if the conversions were excellent. I never had a PS1/2/P so have no nostalgia or desire to play this hilariously named 'Premium' stuff (and I only really play one game nowadays anyway) but even with all of those caveats this winds me up on behalf of the many people who want to play these titles, absolute minimum effort for this type of endeavour is so typical of modern Sony - what a fuckup :lol:

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See I'm the opposite. I don't have enough space to set up my old consoles and my new TV doesn't have the connectors anyway. I'd totally pay for a sub to play old games I already own on new hardware in much the same way as my partner streams shows we already have on DVD. Less effort.

 

However when the results look like this...I'm more likely to turn to my PC, Switch or X-Box for old games.

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I assume they put these in the highest most expensive tier because they figure the most "hardcore/fanatical" gamers are also the big spenders who'd pay for this olde shite.

 

It's pretty insulting in a way that they assume we'd be happy and thankful for them serving up this steaming pile of low effort turd saying "this old shit is what you wanted right? Now pay us a lot of money"

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16 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

For me it's also like - the PlayStation 5 is about as powerful as the Series X. So it should be able to do all the fancy emulation stuff that hobbyists are doing for Xbox, ranging from NES to PS1 to GameCube and Dreamcast. Even if hoping for something remotely approaching the official Xbox BC with its enhanced stuff and framerate boosts is unrealistic, surely Sony them-bloody-selves can do what a hobbyist can sitting in his mother's basement without full access to all the documentation behind the PS1, 2, and 3 like bloody Sony has?

 

SURELY at the very fucking absolute minimal level of lower than low expectations, you still expect them to get the aspect ratio of the emulated games right? Surely.

 

Never mind avoiding using PAL versions to ensure that the retro games which form the entire bloody selling point of your highest paid tier run at the very least as well as the original decades old hardware. Surely.

 

Please understand.

 

Fwiw I love the idea of playing those older games through official means on PS5, so I'm really hoping they get it right eventually. I've been playing a lot of older stuff on my Series X (it has no new games lololol etc) and having a blast - I find that the 360 generation stuff is surprisingly so much more fun to play than most of the current gen games. Imo and all that.

Indeed. Think Sony's legacy hardware designs don't help either. PS2 & 3 had odd architectures and lots of optimisation was done for these and I expect the devs (esp on PS2) were going all kinds of tricks to milk power out of the thing. 

 

MS on the other hand being a software company first and foremost built everything on a Direct X stack so things will have been a bit more straightforward* for them regarding BC. Even for the none x86 360. 

 

And also agree there are some fantastic games on the 360 and it's why I still own one! Great selection of racers and shooters on there. Still rate it as the best console I've owned. Spent more gaming hours on that than any other console. Great pad and games lineup. I keep replacing the hardware with newer versions when I can pick decent ones up for a reasonable price. Currently have the E variant (one Xbox One alike styling) and the last version made. Has a nice chunky 500GB drive in there too!

 

 

 

*Not to discount what they have achieved in anyway! What the BC team at MS have done is pretty bloody amazing and it's what makes Sony look so bad TBH.

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47 minutes ago, MattyP said:

Indeed. Think Sony's legacy hardware designs don't help either. PS2 & 3 had odd architectures and lots of optimisation was done for these and I expect the devs (esp on PS2) were going all kinds of tricks to milk power out of the thing. 

 


an argument that might work except homebrew coders are doing a better job than Sony at mimicking these.

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1 hour ago, footle said:


an argument that might work except homebrew coders are doing a better job than Sony at mimicking these.


The perfect of example of the difference between doing something for love versus money. 

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6 minutes ago, SuperFamiTom said:


The perfect of example of the difference between doing something for love versus money. 


Yeah hobbyists or not, it’s amazing what you can achieve with hundreds of hours of completely free labour. 

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13 minutes ago, Sarlaccfood said:


Yeah hobbyists or not, it’s amazing what you can achieve with hundreds of hours of completely free labour. 


And a passion for getting something right instead of just enough to meet the bosses expectations. 

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1 hour ago, footle said:


an argument that might work except homebrew coders are doing a better job than Sony at mimicking these.

Guess so .. thinking about it have an emulator on the PC and remember it running things like Shadow Of The Colossus really well. Given that my PC is technically inferior to the PS5 and the PS5 doesn't have the heavy OS that a windows based PC has really no excuses I guess.

 

In the end it is what it is I guess. If people aren't happy and don't buy into it Sony will have to improve what they offer. However I expect people will just put up with it for the convenience and just keep complaining about the situation. Best way to get things changed is don't give them money IMHO. They'll soon sort things out :D 

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15 minutes ago, SuperFamiTom said:


And a passion for getting something right instead of just enough to meet the bosses expectations. 


 

Yeah this came up with Nintendo’s N64 offering at the time too. Stuff like “just a rom dump”, “Easy to emulate” etc. The flippant way the homebrew scene is talked about is pretty unfair for a group of people doing gods work.

 

Don’t get me wrong Sony using PAL versions etc is shite, they deserve to be pulled up on it for being cheap and I’m sure with enough backlash it will get fixed, but emulation is really fucking hard and it’s taken the homebrew scene years to get where it is, not just someone booting up their PC a couple of evenings after work. 
 

And as for Microsoft, their backwards compatibility stuff isn’t the standard at all, it’s a modern miracle. 

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16 minutes ago, MattyP said:

If people aren't happy and don't buy into it Sony will have to improve what they offer.

 

Looking at the sales of the PS Classic and the massive discounts it had to be sold at to get rid of stock it shows this isn't true. Sony have learned fuck all.

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13 minutes ago, Sarlaccfood said:


 

Yeah this came up with Nintendo’s N64 offering at the time too. Stuff like “just a rom dump”, “Easy to emulate” etc. The flippant way the homebrew scene is talked about is pretty unfair for a group of people doing gods work.

 

Don’t get me wrong Sony using PAL versions etc is shite, they deserve to be pulled up on it for being cheap and I’m sure with enough backlash it will get fixed, but emulation is really fucking hard and it’s taken the homebrew scene years to get where it is, not just someone booting up their PC a couple of evenings after work. 
 

And as for Microsoft, their backwards compatibility stuff isn’t the standard at all, it’s a modern miracle. 


Oh I’m absolutely sure that emulation is hard and it may as well be magic for what little understanding I’ve got of how it’s done. But the fact remains that if Sony etc are going to try and compete with what’s out there for ‘free’ and charge money for it then they need to put the effort in and do it right. 

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22 minutes ago, MattyP said:

Guess so .. thinking about it have an emulator on the PC and remember it running things like Shadow Of The Colossus really well. Given that my PC is technically inferior to the PS5 and the PS5 doesn't have the heavy OS that a windows based PC has really no excuses I guess.

 

 

Even better comparison is the Xbox Series X like I said. You can install emulators on that without modifying it in any way. It runs PS1 and PS2 games and a bunch of others. PS5 is about as powerful so it should be able to at least do that.

13 minutes ago, Sarlaccfood said:


 

Yeah this came up with Nintendo’s N64 offering at the time too. Stuff like “just a rom dump”, “Easy to emulate” etc. The flippant way the homebrew scene is talked about is pretty unfair for a group of people doing gods work.

 

Don’t get me wrong Sony using PAL versions etc is shite, they deserve to be pulled up on it for being cheap and I’m sure with enough backlash it will get fixed, but emulation is really fucking hard and it’s taken the homebrew scene years to get where it is, not just someone booting up their PC a couple of evenings after work. 
 

And as for Microsoft, their backwards compatibility stuff isn’t the standard at all, it’s a modern miracle. 

Thing is, if the current PS1 emulator ran those PS1 games well without fancy enhancements it would already be a massive improvement. At the moment people aren't even asking for enhancements, it would be nice to have them displayed in a proper aspect ratio and without stutter. Nevermind the enhancements and boosts on Microsoft's side, at the moment the PS1 games run vastly inferior compared to the original hardware. Given that you can install honebrew PS1 emulators on just about every device you own there's no excuse for that.

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I share the highest tier subscription with a like-minded friend of mine and we're all paid up and stacked until the end of 2027 so I guess I will patiently wait and see how and if they improve :lol:

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3 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

I share the highest tier subscription with a like-minded friend of mine and we're all paid up and stacked until the end of 2027 so I guess I will patiently wait and see how and if they improve :lol:

They'll probably 'improve' it by stopping people from sharing subscriptions though.

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I'd have stumped up the extra cash for whichever tier had featured Ridge Racers 2 (as had been rumoured a while back) but as that appears to have been, ahem, #FakeNews, I guess I'm sticking with the base tier.

 

It's not as if I don't have a stupid backlog to clear as it is without adding another load of stuff!

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14 minutes ago, mr twig said:

They'll probably 'improve' it by stopping people from sharing subscriptions though.

Fair. And roll out yet another's patch that makes the emulation even worse at the same time*

 

 

*I wish I was kidding but for those who haven't kept up that's exactly what they did with the recent patch that they described as "improving PAL emulation" :rolleyes:

 

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6 hours ago, Sarlaccfood said:


Yeah hobbyists or not, it’s amazing what you can achieve with hundreds of hours of completely free labour. 


Completely free, motivated and self directed labour.

 

And it’ll be difficult and expensive to achieve even half what the homebrew community have achieved within a corporate environment, but they’ve missed the bar in pretty much everything - publishing “features” from their Jira tickets that just don’t work as advertised.

 

and the important distinction is that Sony are charging for this.

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Oh yeah don’t get me wrong this isn’t good enough from Sony. It’s just a shame when you see the homebrew achievements in the area downplayed and being used as an example of how easy it all must be.

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Dodgy emulation aside for a moment, are we expecting the same minimal selection of classic games to be available with the UK/US launch?

That DF video made it look like the shelves of a charity shop.

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