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Sony new subscription service combining Now and Plus? (Schreier report)


Sarlaccfood
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The last time PS Now was mentioned, it had a fairly low total capacity. If they really are now going to push adoption for it, they'll be needing to either spend a shit load of money or utilise the Microsoft deal that has borne zero fruit since announcement over 2 years ago.

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1 hour ago, Monkeyspill said:

I’m out if it’s mostly streaming only. It will be, won’t it? I can’t see them putting a lot of effort into this.

I shouldn’t think so, currently only PS3 games require streaming due to the weird architecture of that system, but I imagine the rest should all be downloadable. 

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If they do bring over a sizeable chunk of the PS1 and 2* library, I'll be very tempted. But until they confirm otherwise I'm expecting it to be bog standard Plus and Now together for 1 quid less than it would otherwise cost.

 

*Would love to see PS3 also but I think that will never happen. That will remain stuck in the streamable netherworld 

 

Edit: I would also love for them to do resolution and frame rate boosts like on Xbox but likewise I don't think it will ever happen

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If it’s first / second party games Day 1 like with GamePass I’ll happily pay another £15 a month subscription fee.

 

Anything less then I’m not interested. I already get a load of indie games through GamePass and I’ve got zero interest in streaming games. 

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Yep, same here. For ADHD me it's been surprisingly brilliant, and I say that as someone who far prefers owning to indefinitely subscribing for access to game; it's seen me try and fall in love with games I'd otherwise have missed, either because I wasn't aware of them or because I assumed I wouldn't enjoy them and was proved wrong. It just depends on the individual whether it's something that will work for you or not.

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7 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

If they do bring over a sizeable chunk of the PS1 and 2* library, I'll be very tempted. But until they confirm otherwise I'm expecting it to be bog standard Plus and Now together for 1 quid less than it would otherwise cost.

 

*Would love to see PS3 also but I think that will never happen. That will remain stuck in the streamable netherworld 

 

Edit: I would also love for them to do resolution and frame rate boosts like on Xbox but likewise I don't think it will ever happen

 

The documentation shows it has 3 planned tiers, PS+ base tier, hybrid PS+/bits of PS Now current/last gen mid-tier and Premium everything including old games for old people who care tier.

 

Quote

Details on Spartacus may still not be finalized, but documentation reviewed by Bloomberg outlines a service with three tiers. The first would include existing PlayStation Plus benefits. The second would offer a large catalog of PlayStation 4 and, eventually, PlayStation 5 games. The third tier would add extended demos, game streaming and a library of classic PS1, PS2, PS3 and PSP games.

 

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Just now, mushashi said:

 

The documentation shows it has 3 planned tiers, PS+ base tier, hybrid PS+/bits of PS Now current/last gen mid-tier and Premium everything including old games for old people tier who care.

 

 

All I need is all of the Tenchus so i should be a real easy get for Sony. Unless it's all streaming and then I'm out again. Or it's just a paltry selection. Or too shoddy in terms of lazy emulation like the Nintendo expansion pack disaster.

 

I hope it turns out good, would love to revisit a lot of those classics. But there's so much they could do wrong

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Is this realistically even aimed at hardcore gamers with everything in the first place?

 

Seems more a value add for people on limited income still predominately playing on PS4 who don't buy every single game released ASAP. They even stick the old games in the most expensive option (like Nintendo), rather than in the should be clearly free because they have zero value tier like they do on the PC ;)

 

The middle-tier should be most popular of the new tiers as you don't have to pay more for the two most useless features, old games and streaming.

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So they're going to bundle their two services into one and call it tiers.  Bit confused why suddenly do we get PS1-4-5 games that wasn't possible before and something Sony said their (4 the) players weren't too interested in is now a thing, if you pay extra.   Still for the right price, I'll probably subscribe, especially if I can stream it on my PC.

 

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10 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

If they do bring over a sizeable chunk of the PS1 and 2* library, I'll be very tempted. But until they confirm otherwise I'm expecting it to be bog standard Plus and Now together for 1 quid less than it would otherwise cost.

 

*Would love to see PS3 also but I think that will never happen. That will remain stuck in the streamable netherworld 

 

Edit: I would also love for them to do resolution and frame rate boosts like on Xbox but likewise I don't think it will ever happen

Maybe I'm being silly but I don't see why PS3 games in particular would be left as a streaming only option. I'm assuming that for the next generation of PSNow Sony will basically start putting PS5s in datacentres and running everything on those machines. Creating a PS3 emulator that can run on a PS5/x86 has to be cheaper than trying to maintain a system built around a defunct processor architecture like the Cell chip. 

The PS5 is definitely powerful enough to run  PS3 emulator, maybe Sony won't add stuff to match Microsofts framerate or resolution boosting features but they should still be able to create an official emulator that runs PS3 games as well as they ran on original hardware. 

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35 minutes ago, bear said:

Maybe I'm being silly but I don't see why PS3 games in particular would be left as a streaming only option. I'm assuming that for the next generation of PSNow Sony will basically start putting PS5s in datacentres and running everything on those machines. Creating a PS3 emulator that can run on a PS5/x86 has to be cheaper than trying to maintain a system built around a defunct processor architecture like the Cell chip. 

The PS5 is definitely powerful enough to run  PS3 emulator, maybe Sony won't add stuff to match Microsofts framerate or resolution boosting features but they should still be able to create an official emulator that runs PS3 games as well as they ran on original hardware. 

 

The reason is that the PS3 architecture is still, in specific ways, unrivalled; its specialist coprocessors ("Synergistic Processing Units") mean it outperforms even modern machines in very specific situations, which makes for a crippling blow when emulating games which make use of those advantages. So even though the PS5 is dramatically more powerful than the PS3, it's unlikely it could emulate the console well across the board: those games that were designed to properly take advantage of the PS3's architecture would need to be patched heavily — effectively carrying out a mini-port of the game — as the PS5 won't be able to emulate the PS3's coprocessors at the level of performance required.

 

If Sony were to go down the emulation route and not end up with either a tiny selection or a fundamentally broken set of games they'd need to take an approach similar to Microsoft's, with mixed emulation and patching of games, albeit involving much more work per game; the question is what level of resource Sony are willing to bring to bear.

 

This video gives a decent overview of the challenge, with the most relevant part from 9:55:

 

 

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9 hours ago, bear said:

The PS5 is definitely powerful enough to run  PS3 emulator, maybe Sony won't add stuff to match Microsofts framerate or resolution boosting features but they should still be able to create an official emulator that runs PS3 games as well as they ran on original hardware.

I think you'll be surprised about that -

 

 

and this is Sony not Microsoft so I can't see them wanting to spend anywhere near as much as Microsoft has with it's BC program.

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On 03/12/2021 at 23:50, MansizeRooster said:

I'm hoping to God that this is going to turn out to be what I've always hoped for,  a subscription service that grants you access to 99% of titles for PS1-3, and most of PS4, and eventually PS5.

 

Microsoft don't have 99% of the library because of licences etc. Sony, where they're not gonna let you use your own disks is going to do much worse.

 

Just the sheer number of MGS owned studios stuff you won't see is going to be long.  Psychonauts, Dishonored, Prey, Doom, Quake, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Devil May Cry...

 

And then all MS' problems with cars, sport, personalities and music.

 

If they did it as a pure emulator and let you use disks it'd work but as soon as they're distributing it they're in trouble.

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@Wiper @Hitcher I understand that creating a PS3 emulator would be a lot of work for Sony but it still seems like the best option available to them. 

 

The alternative is continuing on with the current strategy of sticking PS3s in server racks and using that as a way to stream games which doesn't seem like a great option going forward. I don't know what the current situation is regarding that deal Sony announced with Microsoft about using Azure for cloud gaming but I'm guessing that at some point it will involve Sony installing new PS Now hardware in Microsoft's data centres. Does it make sense to put PS3 hardware on a PS Now blade in 2021+ ? Would they even be able to find someone to produce new supplies of CELL and Geforce 7000 chips in 2021? 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Wiper said:

 

If Sony were to go down the emulation route and not end up with either a tiny selection or a fundamentally broken set of games they'd need to take an approach similar to Microsoft's, with mixed emulation and patching of games, albeit involving much more work per game; the question is what level of resource Sony are willing to bring to bear.

 

 

The primary problem with any dreams of official wide PS3 emulation isn't really technical in nature. As Microsoft have shown, even with their unlimited money advantage, they managed to support ~6% of the original Xbox library (and that is literally a x86 PC!) and ~29% of the X360 library.

 

There are much bigger roadblocks to getting anything like majority game library coverage via official emulation. You compare that to the 99%+ compatibility rating of hardware-based BC, not even a contest.

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3 hours ago, bear said:

@Wiper @Hitcher I understand that creating a PS3 emulator would be a lot of work for Sony but it still seems like the best option available to them. 

 

The alternative is continuing on with the current strategy of sticking PS3s in server racks and using that as a way to stream games which doesn't seem like a great option going forward. I don't know what the current situation is regarding that deal Sony announced with Microsoft about using Azure for cloud gaming but I'm guessing that at some point it will involve Sony installing new PS Now hardware in Microsoft's data centres. Does it make sense to put PS3 hardware on a PS Now blade in 2021+ ? Would they even be able to find someone to produce new supplies of CELL and Geforce 7000 chips in 2021? 

 

 

 

Perhaps watch the videos linked to. The current "best" emulator for PS3 ,RPCS3, works with a very small selection of games on high end hardware that is MORE powerful than the ps5. It is not simple or easy.

Emulating the PS3 is a technical nightmare because of the CELL processor and the bizarre way it works. It is only accomplished with brute force. as explained in the videos.

 

 

1 hour ago, mushashi said:

 

The primary problem with any dreams of official wide PS3 emulation isn't really technical in nature. As Microsoft have shown, even with their unlimited money advantage, they managed to support ~6% of the original Xbox library (and that is literally a x86 PC!) and ~29% of the X360 library.

 

There are much bigger roadblocks to getting anything like majority game library coverage via official emulation. You compare that to the 99%+ compatibility rating of hardware-based BC, not even a contest.

 

Nope, its licensing, thats it. thats the problem. not the emulators. They can run the library, they just cant put it up. The big beardy guy said it in a vid (i cant be bothered to find the vid right now). they tried to get almost everything people asked for, they couldn't, because of licensing.

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46 minutes ago, 5R7 said:

Nope, its licensing, thats it. thats the problem. not the emulators. They can run the library, they just cant put it up. The big beardy guy said it in a vid (i cant be bothered to find the vid right now). they tried to get almost everything people asked for, they couldn't, because of licensing.

 

The problem isn't just licensing ($$$$$/£££££/¥¥¥¥¥¥¥/€€€€€€€ maybe responsible for the majority of the problem), as per the PR:

 

Quote

While we continue to stay focused on preserving and enhancing the art form of games, we have reached the limit of our ability to bring new games to the catalog from the past due to licensing, legal and technical constraints.

 

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/11/15/70-new-backward-compatible-games/

 

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As an aside, given the talk about the ability to play old crap officially, some people have taken it upon themselves to document the fallen of the digital age:

 

Quote

Welcome to Delisted Games,
a growing archive of 1,503 games you can't play

 

https://delistedgames.com/

 

That'll soon rival the entire library of the X360!

 

Titanfall has just joined the extinct list, it'll be a miracle if they keep on supporting the servers for it in perpetuity, but that's the downside of online games.

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